Dallas South interviews Barbara Trepagnier, author of "Silent Racism How Well Meaning White People Perpetuate the Racial Divide"

I ride around listening to NPR on KERA throughout the day, but it's rare that I catch Think
hosted by Krys Boyd.  Last week I happened to land on 90.1 and heard
the beginning of a conversation Ms. Boyd's was having with Barbara
Trepagnier.

Their discussion centered on Ms. Trepagnier's book Silent Racism: How Well-Meaning White People Perpetuate the Racial Divide.

The interview was both provocative and
informative.  I thought the readers of Dallas South would enjoy
Barbara's thoughts about racism and how even the most "well meaning"
folks can fall victim.  She teaches sociology at Texas State
University-San Marcos.

Download Barbara's interview on Think here .

Find out more about the book Silent Racism here .

Please visit www.dallassouthblog.com. 

Dallas South:  Why did you write Silent Racism?

Barbara Trepagnier: Shawn, thank you
for inviting me to do this interview. I was in graduate school when I
realized (because an acquaintance told me) that I had said something
that was perceived as racist. At first, I was mortified, and then I
realized that even though I hadn’t intended to, what I said was racist.
I decided that for my dissertation I would study people like me: people
who care about racism but at times say or do things that are somewhat
racist.

DS:  In the subtitle of your book you use the term "well meaning white people."  Tell me what is meant by that term and how it played into your study.

BT: Well-meaning white people care
about racism, and would not do anything intentionally racist. However,
they (we) often don't know very much about race matters, and
occasionally we say something that is patronizing or downright
insulting without even knowing it. One of the important points of the
book is that intentions don’t matter, the effects of what we say and do
matters.

Silent racism is my term for the
stereotypes and negative assumptions that are held in the minds of
white people who, like me, care about racism and want to contribute to
lessening it. I believe that those negative thoughts at times slip out,
and influence decisions we make.

DS:  What was the most surprising thing that you found in your research for this book?

BT: The amount of racism I found
surprised me a lot. I invited women who care about racism to join the
study—the flier said, “Women Against Racism.” I expected to find some
racism in the participants, but I didn't expect to find so much.
Virtually all of the women who came to the study were somewhat racist 
and some of them expressed ideas that were much more racist than I
expected.

Two
other patterns emerged that surprised me. For one, the importance of
racial passivity was not expected. I have come to believe that white
people who are passive in the face of other people’s racism are equally
at fault. No one likes to interrupt racism, but our silence sends a
strong message that we agree with the racist statement or joke that was
expressed.

And finally, I found that race
awareness is more important in lessening institutional racism than
whether someone is racist (we are). And the best predictor of high race
awareness is whether people have close friendships African Americans
and whether they talk about racism with their black friends.

DS:  You studied white women for Silent Racism and many of them said they were afraid of black men.  What are they afraid of?

BT: The fear of black men was
striking, and it comes from stereotypes in our culture, especially ones
that link black men to crime and violence. It doesn't help that so many
white people, including women, do not have close friends who are
black—if they did, the stereotypes would not have so much influence. As
it stands, people believe the stereotypes, and fear is the result.

Dallas South:  How do White Americans like the ones you studied feel about theconcept of institutional racism?

Barbara
Trepagnier: Most white people do not understand how racism works, which
means they don’t understand institutional racism. The predominant white
definition of racism is that it is deliberate and hateful. But
institutional racism is often neither deliberate nor hateful.

People in all sectors of society make
decisions based on the information they carry in their heads. For most
white people, that information is distorted by stereotypical images and
paternalistic assumptions. It is not surprising that many white
decisions have negative consequences for blacks and other people of
color.  

DS: There are a number of "liberal" or
"progressive" white blogs that will not tolerate any accusation that
their views regarding Barack Obama and the Presidential campaign are
shaped by race.  Why is it so hard for liberal/progressives to imagine that their ideas and beliefs can still be affected by race? 

BT: I haven’t seen the blogs you are talking
about, but I will say this: being accused (your word!) of racism is
about the worst thing you can say about a white person today,
especially someone who is racially progressive. Part of the problem is
that the categories “racist” and “not racist” imply that people who do
antiracist work are by definition “not racist.”

My work transforms the oppositional
categories into a continuum that indicates that some people are “more
racist” and others are “less racist” but no one is literally “not
racist.” I believe that if the progressive blogger adopted this point
of view, they would be much more open to seeing their own silent
racism.

Think about it: If people define racism as
hateful, they are likely to deny the accusation because they would
never be hateful. I think the definition of racism today is very
problematic and that the oppositional categories are part of the
problem.

DS:  Do younger white Americans
(Gen X, Gen Y, and younger) understand the history of racism and how
prevalent it was in American society?

BT: Shawn, I don’t think any white people, young or old, know very
much about racism in this country—maybe white history teachers do! In
school, students are taught about ending slavery, not about slavery.
Students are taught about the civil rights movement, not about
segregation. Our historical legacy is filled with racism, and it did
not magically disappear because legal segregation ended with the civil
rights movement.

DS:  What do you hope people will understand as a result of having read Silent Racism?

BT: I hope that well-meaning white people
will begin to define racism differently. Today, many white people
sincerely believe that racism is hateful and rare. African Americans
know that isn’t true because of their life experiences. But whites who
don’t have close friends who experience racism don’t see it unless it
is blatant.

If well-meaning white people reject the
oppositional categories and accept the racism continuum, a sea change
will follow in the way people generally think about racism. Racism that
is now hidden by the categories will be exposed. Well-meaning white
people will stop feeling threatened by being perceived as somewhat
racism.  

It is important that well-meaning white
people see that we are all are part of the racial status quo,
regardless of racial/ethnic category, and that whites benefit from it
and hold it in place. Well-meaning white people have an opportunity to
reject the traditional model of racism—that some people are racist and
some are not—and acknowledge our part in how racism operates. Just as
some well-meaning white people during slavery worked in the Underground
Railroad and some worked with blacks to end legal segregation, we need
to courageously stand up against the silent racism of our day.

DS:  Thanks Barbara!

BT: Thank you Shawn. I appreciate your
thoughtful questions, and hope you will encourage people to check out
the silent racism website at www.SilentRacism.com. There is a lot of information on the site, as well as a place to sign up for the silent racism email list.