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It's time to modernise the Holy Bible.
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by Babel-Fish | December 4, 2008 at 10:34 pm
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In the year 313, he declared the Edict of Milan which proclaimed religious toleration throughout the empire.
He had great influence over the First Council of Nicaea and wanted Christianity to be the main religion of Rome and the empire. His religious policies effectively changed the initial look of the Christian Religion of which was of course an more mellow and kind off shoot of Judaism. Where as the Jewish God of sword for a sword and eye for an eye, became a caring God and a peace seeking entity.
The fact that the Torah the Jewish scriptures where made the foundation of the first Christian Bible without change. Showed that Constantine did not want to loose the God of war factor and wanted people to believe that God was on the side of the Roman Empire when it came to new conquest, these conquest being bringing the pagan heathens into the flock of the Jesus Christ etc.
The chose of new testament Gospels and added literature was first agreed by the Council of Nicaea and rubber stamped by Constantine. Much of Constantine requirement formulated the Christian religion we know to day. Through out the centuries however various new Christian faiths have been formed by people that disagreed with the Christian views of the Roman Catholic beliefs that where contradictory to the Ten Commandments etc. Then of course much Fundamentalism as been added by Christian cultism as time has past.
This phrase and fact stands out and shows how the old gods of Rome where assimilated to the new Christian religion…
The figures of old gods were either replaced or assimilated into a framework of Christian symbolism. Constantine built the new Church of the Holy Apostles on the site of a temple to Aphrodite.
Looking at the Bible starting with the New Testaments, the additive of including letters and revelations to my mind was a big mistake as the Gospels show the life and teaching of Jesus of which are the man juice of the belief. Revelations to my mind comes from a person of whom was completely mad and a religious zealot. I am sure that Jesus would have not wanted this crazed chapter to be added to his book of moral teaching.
The fact that magic was added illuminate Jesus into being a super being himself does no real credit to the magic of character of such a wonderful Philosopher and narrator. The magic was in his words. I am sure the truth is that none of the miracles were in fact true events but rumors or added by the narrators of the stories.
The fact that the roman influence leading to Jesus death was white washed and more blame placed on the Jewish Rabbi and cleric’s shows that the Roman influence on the founding of Roman Catholicism did not want Rome to be seen as the murders of the savior of mankind.
The Roman empire still had a phobia when it came to Jews this phobia was take up by the leadership of the new religion and of course the Jewish people have suffered much over the past century’s due to the anti-Jewish influence of the Roman Catholic faith.
The Old Testament is the bug bare concerning Christianity it has many contrary verses that effectively cancel out the peaceful goodliness that Jesus Christ tried to teach man kind. The only parts that needed to be included with the New Testaments are far and in between. The Ten Commandments of course should have been a must as they are good rules for people to live by. But anything that showed the ever caring super being as the creator of evil or war befuddle what Jesus Christ and how he see his God and give the religion of the Christians a controversial persona that conflicts with the original teachings of Christ the man the religion was founded on.
It pains me to see people thinking they can be forgiven for anything and the way Constantine and his puppet committee set the religion up people can confess to sin again. Seemingly selfish prays can be answer and are just important as non selfish prays that come from the caring heart.
Its time that the Christian faith modernized to be what Jesus Christ really wanted and not what a powerful emperor wanted and those with equal motives of controlling people through their faith by religious indoctrination with a mix of propaganda.
Peace be with you, your faith and beliefs are important to you as my belief is important to me. Hopefully I have made you think and not scramble to a holy book for a answer, remember men wrote those books each and every verse and people like Constantine rubber stamped what you’re reading. The reason for so many editions of the Bible.
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Most RecentMost Recommended Comments (20)
at 23:11 on December 4th, 2008
For Jesus's sake
at 04:53 on December 5th, 2008
unbelievable dribble from someone who is obviously not a Christian and has never studied the 66 divinely ordered books of Holy direction that contradict nowhere in any passage anywhere. Study your subject at least a bit before you throw your "informed" opinion out there please, I could get a more scholarly rebuttal of GOD's Word out of a Wiccan.
at 05:20 on December 5th, 2008
dfaugust2k (not verified).
I have studied the Bible and various Holy books thats a fact and the pure truth, I have been a Christian and retain the politeness and good moral standards the shinning example of Christian moral and respected standards.
Let me say you have done a lousy job of attacking the messenger and not the message, leaving thoughts about you accademic guile. This sort of attack is known as the top troll ploy. It does not make you look clever in fact the opposite.
Now if you want to give a responsible and sensible view and debate stop insulting and think Christian values, your wonderful accademic guile will be respected as with your opinion in any debate with me.
Bad start but I have turned the other cheek in the expectations of politness and common decency from a fellow human being.
at 17:40 on December 20th, 2008
1
at 17:40 on December 20th, 2008
dfaugust... at NP we support difference of opinions in an open forum, but not insulting the writers. Please review code of conduct policies.
at 06:11 on December 5th, 2008
I very much appreciate the narrative on the secularization of christianity. It is an unfortunate legacy that has been carried down through the generations at great expense to many and with the great benefit of the few.
We have been challenged, no doubt, by the life and teachings of Jesus Christ which is generally the consensus of the vast majority of faiths and people around the world. It is surprising how well Christ travels alone without the garments of what has become Christianity. As a person who does believe that Christ's life is an example for us to measure our humanity is very disappointed the so much "hate" teachings from organized religion. Not to say that many communities of faith do great and wonderful acts to those who are less fortunate that us, however, it is imperative to look at the history and development of basic assumption. It is only in this light, that we can understand the context and culture of "hand me down" tenants of our faith.
Then again, somewhere one of the beatitudes should include.. "blessed are the ignorant, for they shall be blissed"
Thanks for your time in your posting.
at 06:53 on December 5th, 2008
Your "As a person who does believe that Christ's life is an example for us to measure our humanity" Is something that I see great respect in and as an athiest myself my non belief does not cloud my eye to the fact that Jesus was a good man, with good values.
A great phylospher that see the problems of his society and the religion he had been born into. His teaching was simply magically inspiring that showed him to be a genious and well learned in human issues.
I can understand why people love and respect this great man and that a religion has been made around his teaching. Constantine and his commitee made a big mistake in not seperating the old reliion more from the new and then adding the idols that made the religion more acceptable to the citizens of the Roman Empire and the people at home in Rome.
Your welcome for my time writing and debate is something that keeps my mind active and if I get people thinking that a bonus. Thanks for your sensible comment and your opinion is respected as your faith.
at 06:32 on December 5th, 2008
-Sir, I would point out that it is you who insult the true religion of Christianity by supposing that it is but an edict established by a heathen politician, and not the true direction of guidance that has survived 100's of years of attempted suppression and demise at the hands of such "progressive" thinkers as yourself , who would advise "revision" or a "modernization" of God's Word (being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.), as if it was written by men affected by such "insanity", as you so eloquently describe the object of God's communication of the book of Revelations to His chosen ( knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Pet 1:20,21) -Sir, your attempts to discredit God's word and lower it to the status of fairy tales and other "various Holy books" is at best scandalous. -nice try -kiss kiss, reguards.
at 09:53 on December 5th, 2008
Your truthfully amusing in a crazy sort of way. Your first comment attacked the messenger your second comment is bias crazyness. My article is not attacking the words of Christ but the words of the Jewish religions view of a God that created evil as well as good and of a God that was seen at first as the God of war.
On the subject of politican and leader control that sticks out like a sore thumb through out the centuries. Popes used to go to war and Christians soldiers to the crusades, One Christian faith against another, Kings, Queens and emperors shouting the battle cry of "Gods on our side' Genocides of all proportions. Politican leaders even today brin God into the propaganda for war.
Would it not be nice if we had a religion truthfully based on the words and teachings of Christ and the ten commandments as that is the only good thing I can see in the Christian Faith and that to my mind was Jesus Christ wish and why he was so against the attitude of Juadism a war like religion were god issued out plague and distruction. The old testiment the Torah simply controdicts much of Jesus teaching.
Jesus had no wish to frighten people but for them to repent sins and follow the Ten Commandments.
Luke...
27 But to you who hear I say, Love your enemies; do well to those who hate you;
28 Bless those who curse you; pray for those who revile you.
29 To him who beats you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either.
30 To everyone who asks of you, give; and from him who takes away your things, do not require their return.
31 And just as you want men to do to you, do to them likewise.
Show exactly how Christ wanted people to be towards each other and that is my main argument.
The true wishes of Jesus have been some what thrown to the wind, most christians are practising a perversion of Juadism, a smattering of idolism and Jesus's is teaching of love has been hidden in a book of brimstone and threats. That was not Jesus's wish and you can see that by reading the gospels on his life and teaching.
at 10:10 on December 5th, 2008
Good Subject of discussion for all those that can think with an open mind.
Interesting Post and Goodness you are in hot water now with the Fundamentalist and Orthodox Believer.
at 00:12 on December 6th, 2008
Of course I am a fundlamentalist weak atheist, lol
If we can open their minds, we can release them to the truth of Jesus Christ great teaching and his real aims. He was the great moral teacher and the religion he tried to change, changed into something he really would be annoyed about. If these these people walked in the great Philosophers shoes and not those Consaintine the Pope/s or the various church leaders that help to change the path to something it was never meant to be.
I am on the true believers side and just making them realise they may not be doing what Jesus required them to do, as they have been indoctrinated into a belief that he would not be happy with.
at 11:30 on December 5th, 2008
"The old testament the Torah simply contradicts much of Jesus teaching."reveals how far short you fall from even a basic understanding of the Holy Scriptures as Jesus clearly states in matthew ch 5
I am so glad you revealed your bias in a previous reply ;"and as an atheist myself"(-as to my personal experience with atheists, they are usually antagonistic Christianity haters and /or extremely unlearned and ignorant :
-this in fact, answers the question regarding the ignorance of your understanding of both Christianity and Judaism, as God was king over Israel in the Old Testament and Israel was the tool of justice in His hand (-hence your perceived"contradictions" concerning "wars" and God). Again, I would suggest you actually READ the contents of the Bible before revealing your blatant ignorance via postings on any site that cares to post them, sir.
Psalm 53: 1 The fool hath said in his heart,
at 20:52 on December 5th, 2008
Again you are attacking the messenger and not the message. You are showing great disrespect for someone that writes and studies the holy text. I have read every word analysed every verse the bible is not something I have just scrutinised.
I am not forcing any belief on you I have told you the truth yes I am an atheist and one that respects religion, faith but I do love the truth and speaking with an open mind i am certainly no fool and your retort shows that thats the only way you can address in debate that because people differ from your bias opinion they must be fools and have not read the bible. So that means that the millions of people that question your faith are completly igorant, so genusis such as William Hawkings and Einstien are total igorant and stupid.
Please do not insult our inteligence and your showing your self up remember the Christian values and Christ teaching and re-read the words I posted from Luke:
Luke...
27 But to you who hear I say, Love your enemies; do well to those who hate you;
28 Bless those who curse you; pray for those who revile you.
29 To him who beats you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either.
30 To everyone who asks of you, give; and from him who takes away your things, do not require their return.
31 And just as you want men to do to you, do to them likewise.
I have not insulted you but you have proved to everybody here that your not being a good Christian in a sensible debate about presenting Cristianity as Jesus Christ would have wanted. I am not trying to change anybodies belief I don't my partner is a good Christian and I am the first to reminder to go to Church. If a friend is very ill or has a big problem I ask my partner to pray for him or her if they are also religious.
So please behave and regard the words of Christ as your guide on treating fellow human beings as I do. Yes to me Christ is morally right.
at 11:59 on December 5th, 2008
d dude is right about the old testament. Wasn't it moses that said to worship none other than God ! Many contradictions in the Bible sad to say but it was inspired by God but sadly contains many mistranslations and should be retranslated and updated apropriately. Some may argue for the inclusion of the book of Barnabus that backs up the Islamic view of Jesus. Sadly many of the other 100 books considered but refused entry into the Bible as a result of being considered apocria no longer survive.
at 20:28 on December 5th, 2008
Yes Moses did and it was reported as coming from Gods mouth, and that can lead to misunderstandings. Then there is the statement that God is the only God, yet we see battles against other gods within the old Testament the Jewish religion had its own contridictory problems. But when the new testimentd were added to the original Torah contridictions got worst.
I must admit I have not read the Gospel of Barnabus, but if there is one on the internet I will read it directly. I have read some of the Gospels there was I believe 132. But some of their inclusion to the new testiment was vetted because they did not fit into the requirements of the commitee or Constantines view on what should be read. Constantine had great power and control over the commitee he was a dictator of whom was known to kill anyone that disagreed with him even his own relatives.
at 20:48 on December 5th, 2008
Babelfish,
Please remove my photograph and any association with my name from your article. I do not agree with your views in the least portion, and do not want my name connected with them.
I am a Christian, and have done enough studying to know that most of your statements about the Bible and Christianity are inaccurate, misleading and harmful. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God, by whom all can be reconciled to God. You have attempted to make a confusing stew of peripheral historical events and muddy the clear waters of His teachings and the rest of the Bible in an attempt to discredit that which you obviously do not understand.
Jesus never claimed to be merely a great teacher. What angered the Jewish leaders of His day enough to have Him crucified was His claim that He is the Son of the Living God, the savior of humanity. If you fail to engage this statement, you have missed His point completely.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was born, I am." (John 8:58). The Pharisees understood that this statement was a claim to be God, and for this they wanted to kill Him. You cannot afford to miss this point: Jesus is God, the One through whom you can be saved from the penalty for your sins.
at 23:35 on December 5th, 2008
I have no idea what photograph is yours please let me know and of course I will delete it. The moderating aid unfortunaly does not make things easy in identifying where pictures come from, I am total sorry that your upset and your opinion is of course very respected.
Though its completly differing from my own so your angry action has no true value in this debate on a sensibly presented arguement on the need to respect Jesus Christ words and teaching and modernise the bible to suit those words and his requirements.
Just because this article came from an atheist I see much biasness of thought concerning my respect for you religion. You are wrong I have great respect for all religions as with any belief.
After many years of writing articles and actively debating studying religion on the internet and prior talking a debating in speakers corner London. I do understand most arguments many I respect and some tend to be unbelievable or not an arguement but a miss use verse from a holy text that I have read many many times. Mostly the words end in the threat of damnation if I beg to differ in belief of the author. Its something I always expect plus of course non Christian behaviour yes we have had someone here on these threads not heeding the good words of Christ. Unfortunatly when I see a verse that ends with a threat a hidden threat I really do not think thats the way a good follower of Christ should behave.
Sorry if you were offended as no offence was meant and my article is on the side of Christ of whom I think man has misrepresented. However some will have not read in the article my main path of thinking and thouht it was anti-religious. Not questioning has man got it right.
"Jesus never claimed to be merely a great teacher. What angered the Jewish leaders of His day enough to have Him crucified was His claim that He is the Son of the Living God, the savior of humanity. If you fail to engage this statement, you have missed His point completely."
No your the one that has missed the point, please read the article again, we are not talking about why he died but what he said and the guide he gave to his prospect followers this guide can be found in Luke. Its not only good statements for his followers to follow but atheist like me and I already its natural to me. We are talking about what did he wanted? We are talking about a man that (thought in his mind- my opinion) that gave his life for the sake of human kind. Yet human kind to my mind have not really taken into account what Jesus really wanted only what they wanted to assume, but if you read Jesus words in Luke its all a very clear message if you open your mind to it. Love your neighbor and your enemies is such a bold statement within those good words of how we should live. Ah then they stick revelations with the threat to man kind, when Jesus offered a way the peaceful path to your God, prior to any Armageddon geared to a second coming revelations is a product of old religion and thinking and nothin like what was promised by Christ to his followers.
Taking the old away from the new religion does not corrupt the teachings of Christ and what he stated his father wanted, all and everything before is history that shows the God of Jesus in a completly different light, surely his should of been the last and first words for his followers? What are Christians doing dabbling with Juadism by referring to the God that is viewed differently than Jesus described to you?
Any followers of Christ please do not put your head in the sand as this is important to your Lord Jesus has his request been followed, is the religion as he perceived it? to me it's not because of to much tampering etc, etc
Peace be with you and all that try to follow the footsteps of Christ and may you achieve Christ aim of creating peace in this world
at 21:30 on December 5th, 2008
A note to all relious believers, you can not false a belief on people you have to make them believe it by actions and words. In the case of Christians, Christ had a plan it was a peaceful one and not brimstone and fire. Christ set the rules many can be found in Luke, please remember those rules when your debating on these threads, no insulting education or understanding that is just not Christian and its not my type of behaviour. There is also a set of mortal standard rules that keep the common decency and polite standards of this community site. One or two of those rules follow some of the morals that Christ taught.
at 23:31 on December 5th, 2008
Mr fish you are right about reference to old gods and the like in the old testament, not sure if they were mistranslations or not but would like to find out. Most likely they are a corruption of THE religion influenced by the pantheon of so called deitys in kabalic "magic" (Yassod , supposedly being the head) . As the fossil record is showing human history is much older than the 6000 years of recorded human religious history in the Torah / old testament and people have been altering the concept of God for their own convenience for almost as long. One of the names of Allah as spoken of in the Quran is Ganeesh, think the hindu god ganesh and you can see where the root of truth in that religion once lied. Islam is an inconvenient truth for many, God is harsh in islam but fair. And one perticularly beautiful verse God refers to him/herself as holding 99 percent of the mercy. Play by decent rules and get treated decently dont and dont. And another thing... Jesus is spoken of as the son of man 81 times in the Bible ? You cant kill God!
at 00:20 on December 6th, 2008
Sputnic, "You cant kill God!" your going to get the text book answer of:
"Jesus never died he lives for ever and he is in my heart." The claim of resurection will be given to you as a reply and a nice set of verses from the Bible. from the religious reader of your comment. I do however agree the Gods of old could not be killed by man, but a God can kill a God I seem to remember.
We could explain if we believed in a God or Gods, the death of Christ that the body (the man part of the man god) was killed and not the spirit of the God inside. Logic thoughts state that Gods are not made of matter but of pure supernatural energy.
I do like your comment thanks
It refers to the non existence of a God though I follow your belief or lets say non belief. I did not write the article to prove the non existance of God or to disprove Jesus was the son of a God. But to put the Bible to question with of course much emphasis on the wishes of Jesus Christ and the religion he wanted to see. It should be very important to someone that loves and believes Jesus is the son of God, that want to tread the correct path not because of threats but because its a good path to follow, logically it is and an example to us all of course with out the strings of religious christian belief concerning athiests or those of other religions. Jesus was spot on and I try to walk on that path of moral standards.
Not scolding you just keeping things on track of subject as I am sure your comment would normally attract to much wrong attention and we will wing away from the article subject.
Peace be with you