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Stacey Barker Hails The Massiah!
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by katfish | January 25, 2011 at 12:35 am
4285 views | 14 Recommendations | 137 comments
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Today was another pre trial hearing in the murder case of Stacey Barker, 26, at the Michael Antonovich Antelope Valley Courthouse in Lancaster, CA. Barker is accused of killing her 18 month old daughter, Emma Leigh Barker, on March 18, 2009. When I titled this story, "Stacey Barker hails the Massiah!" I'm not referring to her praising the lord, Messiah. I have no idea what her religious tenets are. I'm referring to a motion her defense has filed that claims that the State of CA has violated her 6th amendment rights. I'll get into that soon, but first a little background to a case that seems to get stranger and stranger.
Barker originally reported to police that she was loading her daughter into the car after playtime at the Lancaster City Park, when she was attacked and rendered unconscious for several hours before she came to and realized her daughter was missing. After a trip to the hospital to treat her injuries, Stacey Barker was taken to the sheriff's department for questioning. Eleven hours after Emma was reported missing, Barker led law enforcement to her daughter's body that she had left in tall grass on the side of the freeway. Barker claimed her daughter's death was an accident, but because she was afraid of being blamed, she disposed of her baby's body then inflicted injuries ( that were consistent with an attack )on herself, removed and hid parts of her clothing and reported the kidnapping claim. It should be noted that Barker didn't call 911, she called her brother who made the 911 call to law enforcement. When LE arrived at the scene her brother and boyfriend were already there.( Just one more thing in this case that makes you go hmmmm.)
It was nearly a month after Emma's death, before Barker was arrested on April 23, 2009. The charges filed against the Stacey Barker included one count of Second-degree murder, one count of Assault on a Child Causing Death and one count of Child Abuse. Barker has been held at the Century Regional Detention Facility on a one million dollar bond since her arrest. Stacey Barker pled not guilty to all counts at her formal Arraignment on August 12, 2009.
The proceedings today, January 24, 2011 lasted only about a half hour. Stacey Barker's case wasn't called until 11:30 a.m.. The court lists her hearing as starting at 8:30 so Tori and our other friends did have to wait a while. ( I know that sometimes it can be an interesting wait because the court hears other cases in the mean time, but just the same.....Thanks again guys for your time and sharing what you see and hear!)
Defendant Barker didn't look so good when she came in today. Her hair looked like she had been wearing braids that she just took out and hadn't brushed, no makeup today either. Barker's mood seemed to match her appearance, she didn't make eye contact with her family or boyfriend in the courtroom.
I almost feel like I'm putting the cart before the horse by talking about the hearing before explaining the Massiah motion the defense has filed. I'll do that and then go back to the hearing.There have been no issues raised ( that we are aware of ) regarding "Miranda" warnings in this case, but as I said above, the defense has filed a "Massiah" motion to suppress any testimonial evidence gathered by Witness X and the content of the hearing was related to the motion. Let's go over both because the Massiah doctrine supplements Miranda, even though it is a separate and distinct rule.
Most US citizens know that law enforcement must give a Miranda warning before subjecting someone to any interrogation when being arrested ( taken into custody and are not free to leave, a situation the court ruled was inherently coercive ). The purpose of the warning is to ensure the accused is aware of, and reminded of, their rights under the U.S. Constitution. The person in custody must, prior to interrogation, be clearly informed that he or she has the right to remain silent, and that anything the person says will be used against that person in court; the person must be clearly informed that he or she has the right to consult with an attorney and to have that attorney present at anytime during questioning, and that, if he or she is indigent, an attorney will be provided at no cost to represent her or him. A person must clearly waive their fifth Amendment right against self incrimination and the right to an attorney before any evidence gathered in the interrogation will be considered admissible in court.
Just as Miranda gives us Fifth Amendment protection after an arrest, according to the Massiah Doctrine, after the initiation of adversary judicial proceedings (by indictment or by information, preliminary hearing or arraignment), the Sixth Amendment guarantees a defendant the right to rely on counsel as the “medium” between himself and the government. Thus, once adversary proceedings have begun, the government cannot bypass the defendant's lawyer and deliberately elicit statements from the defendant himself.. Massiah is based on the right to counsel. It's application turns not on the conditions surrounding police questioning, but on whether, at the time the government attempts to elicit incriminating statements from an individual, the criminal proceedings against that individual have reached the point at which the Sixth Amendment right to counsel attaches.
The difference between Massiah and Miranda is underscored by the “jail plant” situation, the case where a secret government agent is placed in the same cell with a person and instructed to induce him to implicate himself in the crime for which he has been incarcerated. Miranda does not apply, for the inherent coercion generated by custodial police interrogation is not present when a prisoner speaks freely to a person he believes to be a fellow inmate. Coercion is determined from the perspective of the suspect. Therefore, unless a person realizes he is dealing with a government agent, the government's efforts to elicit damaging admissions from him do not constitute “police interrogation” within the meaning of Miranda.
However, the Massiah doctrine would prohibit the government from using such tactics if adversary proceedings had already been initiated against the person. But the secret government agent was not completely passive in that case; he stimulated conversations about the crime charged. The Court, however, has permitted the government to place a completely “passive listener” in a person's cell and use the statements acquired by such an agent even though adversary proceedings have commenced against the person.
In order for a court to determine that a Massiah violation has occurred two conditions must exist:
1) There must have been an indictment, preliminary hearing or arraignment already held when the violation occurred..
2) The informant has to be acting as a government agent, he had to have acted under the direction of the government and there is a preexisting arrangement between the informant and the police.
The line between “active” and “passive” agents—between eliciting incriminating statements and merely listening—is an exceedingly difficult one to draw.
The Supreme Court held that when an inmate working for the government actively prompts an accused to make incriminating statements, this involves active interrogation and is a violation of the accused's Sixth Amendment right to counsel (United States v. Henry, 447 U.S. 264, 100 S. Ct. 2183, 65 L. Ed. 2d 115 [1980]). However, when a government agent passively listens to the accused's incriminating statements, there is no violation of the accused's Sixth Amendment right to counsel (Kuhlmann v. Wilson, 477 U.S. 436, 106 S. Ct. 2616, 91 L. Ed. 2d 364 [1986]). In Kuhlmann, the Court held that, to prove a violation of the Sixth Amendment, "the defendant must demonstrate that the police and their informant took some action, beyond merely listening, that was designed deliberately to elicit incriminating remarks."
Deputy District Attorney Kelly Cromer presented one witness today. Her name is Ellen Aragon. We learn she was the DA in the case which Witness X reportedly testified for the state against, in his own words, " a local street gang that I was trying to get out from under...." Aragon said that Witness X was subpoenaed to testify in that case, it wasn't voluntary and his life and family had been threatened so he was placed in witness protection. I'll spare you a play by play of the questions Ms. Aragon was asked by DDA Cromer and Stacey Barker's Public Defender, Roberto F. Dager, because the questions were repetitive and in some cases vague, but the jest of it is....the state is trying to show that Witness X is/was NOT a government agent and the defense is trying to show that he IS/WAS.
The burden is the defendants to show that a Massiah violation has occurred and to be fair their efforts have been hampered somewhat by the fact that the case, X admits testifying in, is under seal. The state gave the defense transcripts concerning X's testimony in that case and recordings of Witness X interviews with the state about testifying. Judge Zackey made it very clear that no one except Dager and his investigator are allowed to see the information and neither are allowed to even talk about the contents with anyone else, including the defendant and her family.
Evidently the receipt of a benefit for testifying for the state implies an informant is an agent for the state ??? It's confusing because jailhouse snitches testify all the time for benefits, I guess the question is when was the agreement for benefits made.
Dager tried repeatedly to get Aragon to admit that X asked for benefits in exchange for his testimony (and convince the court?) that when Witness X was put into the Witness Protection Program that was the same as receiving a benefit. Judge Zackey said that Dager's use of the term "benefits" was vague and he didn't agree that entering a witness protection program is a benefit. The next hearing is February 7, hopefully at that hearing we will learn how the judge rules on the defense Massiah motion, if Witness X will be allowed to testify and regardless of his decision a trial date will be set. Judge Zackey stated again he wanted no more delays unless for an important reason adding that this delay caused by the introduction of Witness X to this case is very important.
Superior Court Judge Hayden Zackey has his hands full with this decision. No one wants a do-over in the event of a conviction in this case. Constitutional violations are definitely a consideration of an appellate court.
Preliminary hearing coverage
read more about Miranda and Massiah at answers.com
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Most RecentMost Recommended Comments (137)
at 00:39 on January 25th, 2011
I didn't get a chance to post any pictures yet. Please feel free to add some. ty
at 15:53 on January 25th, 2011
Kat,
That was Great I could not find Massiah for anything! was it the one I told you about? to me it does not sound like it...LOL.
Yeah, Zacky had his hands full yesterday, this one guy went OFF when JZ said Good morning sir. he was in custody and in cuffs, he started yelling, Just kill me lock me up and throw away the key, you MUTHA FUCCA'S been messing with me my whole life, F U I never asked to be born into the human race or on this planet...JZ asked him to calm down or he would be taken out of the court room..well he continued to scream and cuss at the Judge and he was led to holding by Johnny, as he was led out he said "Crip mutha fucca" you doing me just like you did Tookie (Tookie Williams founder of the LA Crips) JZ said to his PD that he wanted her to have him see 2 Doctors to see if he was ok to aid in his case, then said that maybe with some meds on board he will be able to contol himself in court.
Then some lady was pissed that she has been having to come as a witness for some time and she has never been called to give her testimony, The DA was talking to her in the courtroom and she started yelling at him telling him she didn't want to talk to him get away from her and she was leaving! she got up and JZ said please sit down and wait, she said I have been coming her for so long and do you understand I have 3 kids in school and things to do one of my kids has to miss school once a week for this matter and nothing is ever done, I am sick of it all. JZ said I am trying to get MR. So and So here right now so we can clear this matter she said she wanted to leave JZ said "if you leave you will have a warrant for your arrest" she said how long will I have to do in Jail? he said you never know, but if you want to find out I will have you arrested and taken away right NOW...if she would be patient he would find who they were looking for and proceed, he then asked if anyone (his court had the Attorney's cell phone number and that lady said I do, JZ said with a quizzed look on his face "you do" she said YEP but he is in the next courtroom, this guy (the one she yelled at) went there an hour ago to get him but spent most of his time gabbing with some woman, I know I was sitting in there watching what he was doing when he was suppose to be getting the other Attorney he didn't even talk to him! no doubt with 3 kids she waited...but they couldn't get to her til after lunch...I wonder if she went back after lunch?
Yes, Dager kept asking EA if X had asked for Benifits in the case the State had against a gang that they supeoneda him to testify in, she said " NO" that he did not even want to testify as he would be killed if he did. at one point he slipped a note to LE or the DA and told them that someone wanted him to lie on the stand and showed him a paper with his Mom's and Girlfriends phone numbers on it, that was a threat that if he didn't do as they wanted his Mom and Girlfriend would be in danger also, so he testified and was placed in witness protection program and the only thing he got was an apartment outside the county of LA.
Dager said "so, they gave him and his family benefits" she said "NO" only him. RD, so why did he tell anyone about the threats against his family then? she said so someone could be aware of it. a little later he asks "what kind of benefit did X and his family get for his testimony? she said Only he got WP and nothing else and nothing for his family.
Cromer established that he never wore a wire or held a recording device in the case against the gang, the only recordings are interviews with LE about the threats and he did not act as a GA in that case.
Dager asked EA about what kind of time he was offered in another case he had pending and she said she did not know that she was only working her case and did not care to know anything about any other cases he had.
JZ had to make an admission before EA got on the stand, seems she was HIS Boss at one time in Beverly Hills and he had not seen her in many years before today. (he told her if she would stay around they could catch up later)
JZ gave Dager the "States Transcripts" of Mr.X'S portion of the Testimony in the gang case, RD made some remark about he could be asking to see the whole case file and JZ said that what X testified to in that case was all RD needed.
Judge Zacky put the Transcripts he gave Dager under a "PROTECTIVE ORDER" and made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that no one could see them except Dager and his Investigator and they could NOT discuss any of the details with anyone but each other, that they could not be copied and they could not be given or discussed with the defendant or her family. there were a few more things that they are not allowed to do with them but I will leave them out, to long.....
Seems to me X is not that bad a dude, he would not lie on the stand even if it was going to put him and his family in danger and he wants to do the right thing for a innocent child.....
anyway Girls sorry it took so long to get back to you on this...
LC hope to see you at the 7th court date we missed you.....T
at 09:50 on January 25th, 2011
Tori, I too looked for Messiah but wasn't coming up with anything....I looked back at the notes I took during our conversation and you had mentioned JZ even spelled Massiah and you mentioned an "a" so I tried it and wholla!
Sounds like there was a LOT of activity while you waited for SB's case to be called. Thanks for the added detail about the hearing too. I admit I got a little lazy trying to hurry and get this done. LOL
I still need to look for a picture to add.
Hope you all are enjoying that CA weather....we are freezing our butts off in the midwest.
at 12:01 on January 25th, 2011
LOL,
It is sunny but the wind is COLD here, my hands are like ice this morning as I am typing..had to go turn on the heater! I am sure you have it bad out there I saw last night on the news that someone had to use a hammer and chisle on their SUV to even get into it, it was frozen solid....stay warm my friend!
Yeah it was a somewhat crazy day, I had never seen anything like that happen...I think I was stunned because this is usually a quiet courtroom...but it broke up the boredom...LOL
I don't feel that you were lazy at all....you did a great job, I just thought of things as I was typing and added them in..
TTYL {{{Warm Hugs}}} T
at 14:05 on January 25th, 2011
Thanks T! if you get a chance would you c&p your comment about the hearing over at the pond too. You have some interesting stuff there....poor JZ.....I suppose they see it all.
I got your mail today, thank you. I hold proffessional reporters like Craig at the AV Press in high esteem. They can squeeze so much into a relatively small space.
Yeah I saw one suv on the news that the owner tried to break through the ice with a hammer and chisel, knocked a big hole in his rear window. Dumb azz.....who needs to drive when it's that icy? LOL Not me ;)
at 18:36 on January 25th, 2011
kat,
It is in today's paper also front and center!!! so I will send both of them to you, Mon and Tue..this week.
Oh my they did not say that he broke anything on our news just showed the SUV looking like a Ice Cube...LOL
at 19:09 on January 25th, 2011
I went back and reread the entry from the last hearing with a new prospective having learned about the Massiah doctrine. While doing that I noticed a comment Judge Zackey made about what he may be inclined to do if he finds Witness X works as a government agent:
Should he find the inmate was acting as a government agent, Zackey said he suspects his only order would be that all audio tapes be given to Dager before trial.. ( Perhaps the state has just turned over the one audio recording they plan to use at trial ?) " The reality is, the information gathered by this witness was recorded " Judge Zacky said adding, "The documents and recordings speak for themselves."
Looking forward to seeing those articles T.
LOL@ the hammer and chisel guy (it had to be a guy, right?)
at 19:36 on January 25th, 2011
test 123:
Darn! I found a video from April 2009 news report about this case. Kelly Cromer is interviewed in the video so I wanted to post it here.....all I had was an embed code or a URL and I couldn't get either to work :(
I did put it up at the " pond " if anyone wants to see it.....or if you know how I can post it here Please let me know.
http://katfishponders.blogspot.com/2011/01/stacy-barker-hails.html
at 06:50 on January 26th, 2011
Yeah Kat that is the one I saw, you see why I had posted many times how unemotional she was in the ambulance? if my child had been kidnapped there is no way in the world I would be that calm and not frantic or crying like a wounded dog wondering where my baby was and what was happening to her...
Nope, not her she is trying to ACT (not very well either) like she just woke up from being knocked out for hours and is still dazed and confused, yet she was able to call her brother for help in her confused state.
If you look at her face in the Ambulance, she has a calm face with NO tears and she does not look scared or as if she had been crying at all, she looks as if she is bored and wants to go home and get some sleep.well, she did have a long day and night the day before and didn't get much sleep that day either.
It was that News cast that made me think "she did something to that baby" and not believe her first story.
at 06:36 on January 26th, 2011
Hi All,
Yep, Det. Nava testified that there were 4 tapes from Sutton and Dager said "well, that is strange I only have a copy of one"
I guessed that the other 3 had little or no value to the State that is the reason they were not going to use them, but Dager wants them also, I would bet to see if X had asked SB Questions or led her when he was instructed not to, making him a GA by doing so.
I wonder if this Motion will cause the letters to be thrown out also if the motion is granted?
Another thing...Dager seemed like he was in a great mood Monday, he saw me in the hall on another floor and smiled and raised his eyebrow's in a "hey there" greeting, I smiled back...maybe he is getting use to seeing us and thinks why be rude anymore they are here til the end...LOL
There was this guy that day that was acting as his own Attorney and Judge Zackey said "I want to get started on this trial sir, the case is very old now, it should have went to trial long ago" well, his case is JUST 2 years old, Craig reports that the date for the SB trial to begin is in March, that would make this case 2 years old also!
I have no Idea what this guy did, but JZ said "would you concider a Plea" how long would you ask to do? the guy said something like 7 years and JZ said you saw what happened to your co-defendant when he went to trial, I would think you should offer something in the high Teens sir..
I don't believe this guy was in on a Murder either as I didn't see any other 187 on the board outside the courtroom door except for SB'S.
ttyl, T
LC WHER ARE YOU???? EVERYTHING OK WITH YOU? LET US KNOW.
at 15:13 on January 29th, 2011
I have been going crazy to get to a computer and read this!! lol
In the past few days, I have had the power cord to my laptop fry, and my sons' sister visiting from out of town (which puts me at five children; three of them being toddlers), but it was such a joy to have that sweet little girl here, and needless to say, it was quite a busy week. This is actually the first chance I have had to get on here and read this.
As always, great write, Kat! And great job to you too, Tori! I just can't believe this has gone on as long as it has.
So, if I am reading all of this correctly, does that mean that if there is found to be a violation of SB's sixth ammendment, they could possibly not use the information that ES gathered from her against her in court? And will they say whether or not this is the case in the next hearing?
I hope all is well with you guys! :)
at 15:27 on January 29th, 2011
Wow 7xmommy! Sounds like you had your hands full but enjoyed it just the same. Hope those are potty trained toddlers.
If Judge zacky rules that Witness X is a government agent he could suppress the testimony and recordings but it seems he isn't planning to do that. I went back and reread the post from the last hearing and at the end JZ said:
Should he find the inmate was acting as a government agent, Zackey said he suspects his only order would be that all audio tapes be given to Dager before trial.. ( Perhaps the state has just turned over the one audio recording they plan to use at trial ?) " The reality is, the information gathered by this witness was recorded " Judge Zacky said adding, "The documents and recordings speak for themselves." Of course he can change his mind???? Hopefully he will make that order sooner than the next hearing, but surely by then.at 12:28 on February 4th, 2011
lol I enjoyed it immensely, Kat. I was very sad to see her go home. And the only one of the babies who is not potty trained is my youngest, the other two toddlers are potty trained. Wow, would that have been interesting!
I am not really up on all of this legal stuff. I have read over all of these comments, and I am confused as to why they would think X is a government agent. Especially when he and two other people have stated that he acted on his own will. So, this is just another one of Dager's tricks then right? Ugh! Honestly, how does that guy sleep at night, knowing that he is doing everything in his human power to make sure SB gets away with what she did to Emma. He must seriously have no conscience. I hope JZ does not change his mind about using that information.
at 14:08 on February 4th, 2011
Hi 7XMommy! Glad most of those youngens are potty trained ;) For some reason that was the first thing that popped in my head, LOL, maybe I've watched too much John and Kate plus 8, and the other shows like them (I can think of 3 others of the top of my head, but not their names).
Based on the defense's cross examination of the witnesses at the last 2 hearings I would think that it has to do with a formal agreement and the benefits. The judge will decide whether X operated as an agent at all. Based on what I have read about the Massiah rule, the difference isn't so much whether X was an agent for the government, but whether he actively or passively solicitated the information from SB. If a witness is merely a fellow inmate the Massiah rule isn't a factor. Does this make more sense?
A lot of times defense lawyers file motions that they may not neccessarily expect to win but are filed to create a record in the event of an appeal. (Not saying that is the case here.) In the few appeals that I have followed, the appellate court would not consider any issues that weren't brought up before/during trial.
I have heard a defense lawyer say that they are the front line of protection for the rights we all have under the US and State Constitutions. When they win a case, they have protected the Constitution (whether their client is guilty or not) I suppose that is how they can sleep. Sounds like a justification doesn't it? (Again, not saying that is the case here)
I too hope JZ doesn't change his mind about the evidence related to X; however, SB was charged before X came into the case so the state already felt they had a case without it.
Anyone else have thoughts?
at 18:23 on February 4th, 2011
Hi,
Has anyone heard from LC I am starting to worry I can't find her phone number damn it!
I think that Dager is trying to say that he is a GA because he testified in the other trial against the gang, but as the DA in that case said "he was not asked to testify, he was under supeona" that he did not want to testify at all, he did not ask the gang questions, he was not wired and the only thing he gained from that testimony was witness protection.
I think Dager took what was said on the tapes with Nava and Walls about if he was working for them does he get a badge.... they said as a joke "yeah, we'll give you a badge" and they all laughed on the tape accourding to Nava. so that is where Dager gets that he was a GA working for the state when he say's he has it on tape that X identifies himself as a GA...
I think that what JZ said tells a lot... it is what it is,(para phrasing) if X did not Lead her or ask questions and she just shot her mouth off then there is no way for them to say he acted as a GA, JZ will make that determination, I have no Idea if JZ has heard the tapes or seen the contents of the letters. one more thing, I have not heard of any letters that X had sent to her or if he even answered her back, I know there were more then one letter to him from SB, if he didn't answer the first one back I would have been weary of him and not written a second or third time...
Yeah, Dager is going to pull out all the stops because the state is paying the bills, if her family was paying the bills this trial would have been done long ago.
If anyone hears from LC please let me know.....you all stay warm and cozy ttyl T
at 19:22 on February 4th, 2011
Tori, LCM commented recently on the last post " December 17 hearing for Stacey Barker. The flu has been making the rounds in her "neighborhood". Even the baby was sick :(
Warm and Cozy, bwahhhhh! Well ok, I am warm and cozy right now but I have CABIN FEVER! LOL
TTYL
at 17:26 on February 6th, 2011
Thanks Kat,
I was worried.....Cabin Fever....oh no Jack watch out....LOL just kidding.
It has been cold here but the sun has been shining so if I sit in front of the window (like the dogs) I get real warm without the heater....lol
Spring is right around the corner hold on girl it will get better....thinking of you...T
at 14:26 on February 7th, 2011
Ok Guys,
I'm sooooo sorry, Craig just called me and said "did anything good happen today" I said what??? he said there was a hearing today and I didn't make it did you hear anything? I said I didn't know the hearing was today, I thought JZ said on the 24th of Feb....Damn it I looked it up and sure enough it was today and I have no Idea what was done, Craig is going to try to find out and he said he will let me know if anything worth talking about happened today.
I'm going to see what I can find out.....will be back later...T
at 14:57 on February 7th, 2011
Ruht Row!
The last hearing was on the 24th. I do have up in the blog the 7th.....I forgot. Hopefully the judge has made his ruling on the Massiah Motion. Craig should be able to find out if there were any new filings....orders, responses, motions, probably without going to the Circuit Clerks office. I would think the AVP would have an online account.????
I edited this dang comment 3 times...flustered. Any chance Anurse, TD, or LCM went?
at 20:48 on February 7th, 2011
Kat,
I don't know how I forgot and got the dates mixed up...but the next date is 2/14 and I will not forget, Valentines day.....Craig never called me back but if he found out anything I am sure it will be in the papers tomorrow.
Tiff was going to call me this AM and say she couldn't make it but she had other things on her mind, Taxes always come before anything else LOL, I would have told her nah it's not until the 24th.....Nurse called and said WHAT there was a hearing today? TD just texted me, what happened in court today?....so nurse and I both didn't think the day was today...well next monday we will be there early!!!
To be continued tomorrow...T
at 20:57 on February 7th, 2011
It didn't cross my mind, not once.....I'm sure Craig will find out if anything happened. I'm surprised the court was able to proceed without you.....maybe they didn't. I bet Roberto missed you too. LOL
at 08:34 on February 8th, 2011
LMAO you are toooo funny, I am sure the whole place was in hog heaven at us not being there!!!! maybe they think they got rid of us already!
I guess nothing good went on because it just said "SB ordered back to court on the 14th" and just a recap of the original story, in today's paper.
at 00:31 on February 15th, 2011
Hi girls
Well court is again on the 17th now...
Seems that there is a witness list that Cromer wants to know what some people are going to testify to on the stand. there are now 21 witnesse's on the list and the list has been sealed under the court, although they said her Dad is one, Dager said that he does not have to write anything because what he was going to say on the stand was what he told LE when he was interviewed by them.
The other witness that Kelly is mad about (that they were able to say by name in open court) is Dr. Sarah Arroyo, she is a Psychologist, Cromer said she had NEVER heard of her or seen her on the witness list before today, KC wants all her raw notes, any test done and a report of what she has done so far!
There are 6 other witnesse's that they would not say by name and Kelly asked to talk about this one witness and Dager said I am not at liberty to discuss that in open court, Kelly said Your honor, just because this person does not want to suffer embarrasment is no reason to NOT to say their name in open court, so JZ said that they will to go in chambers and discuss this matter along with the other witnesse's on the list tomorrow.
One witness is X himself and like 5 are witness pertaining to X'S other court case, 1 is a HANDLER of X at the Jail...the list has the same protection orders as the case file does, no one is to see it except Dager and the Investigator.
Dager wants the whole case file of X'S other case just incase there is something that he can use that he will not know until he reads all of the file and hears the tapes...Kelly shot back, Judge there are 8100 hundred pages and over 100 tapes, I have given Dager 301 pages today and the tapes of that trial are massive! this is just Dagers way of stalling the case, he has done this all along and I ask that you tell him to stop the stalling tatics (she said it a little different but that is what she said in essence) Dager said that he has not said anything about the discovery that he has not gotten from the DA'S office and why should he have to depend on what CK thinks is Important from the case X testified in as to what she is giving him that he wants JZ to go over all 8100+ pages and the 100+ tapes....JZ said he didn't think that was going to happen, he wants this Trial to start already, it has been going on too long and he is sure that everyone Involved wants it to start also, Ms. Cromer and Mr. Dager both know that if something is not disclosed in discovery that this is not a good thing and no one wants to try this case a second time.
Cromer said that if Dager didn't have the statements of what the witnesses on the list before Trial she is going to file a non compliance on him.
Dager said he also wants to file a complaint about SB'S treatment in lock up. I don't know if that is when she is down stairs or at the Jail, I believe he said that she is or has been mistreated. it looked like she had a bruise on her right cheek just below her eye but closer to her ear and her lower lip at the side of her mouth near her chin looked puffy, I don't know if she had a tussle with guards or another Inmate. if it was at the jail or at the court. I guess we will find that out on Thursday.
If I think of anything else I will be back later....T
at 00:12 on February 15th, 2011
Hi T! Thanks for this summary. I got your phone message, but I got home so late I decided to wait to call. It was a bad day at the hospital :( The 17th should be a very interesting hearing. I wonder when the deadline was for expert witnesses to be identified? Sounds like things are moving along towards trial.
So SB got whooped on? Would like to hear more about that. it may have nothing to do with this case, if she ran her mouth with an inmate or didn't comply with a guard seems more likely.
Sounds as though Dager wants everything from x's case but isn't willing to give info. Judge Belvin Perry in the Casey Anthony case called that strategy trial by ambush.
I will try to call you tomorrow or Wed and pick your brain on today definitely before the 17th.
Hope everyone had a nice Valentines Day!
at 01:09 on February 15th, 2011
Hi Kat
Sorry to hear DH is not doing well still, I thought you might be at the hospital when I called so I didn't push it..
Yeah Ange wants me to include her thoughts..."Dager is a big cry baby"...lol she was annoyed that he had a whine in his voice when he said he wanted to make a complaint about her treatment...JZ said that he would visit that at the next hearing.
Dager was being his usual self, he and Kelly were loud with one another again, Kelly was making a statement about Dager slowing down the case and how she wanted to file a motion if he didn't stop prolonging the case, he butted in and said I want to say that I have not said anything about the discovery that I have not gotten that was ordered long ago!
Kelly got the new witness list on the 10th she said and it was filed on the 9th, she had not seen the revised/new witness list until this date, and some of the wit's on here she has never seen and wants a written report of what each of them are going to say on the stand, also I think she said she wanted to know how long SB had been being seen by Dr. Arroyo before she was added as a witness, Judge Z said well you have not seen the report yet and it might work in your favor so I will instruct Mr.Dager to give you a report thus far from her and all the raw notes and anything else that the Dr. might have, Mr. Dager you will get this for Ms.Cromer, he did not mention a dead line for this but I have a feeling he means before the next hearing.
I am wondering who does not want to be mentioned in open court for fear of being embarrased, but who ever it was, was also Interviewed by LE that night it happened or not long after because RD said that he would be testifing the same thing he told LE. Oh BB was not in court today..just the Grandparents.
I know, I want to find out what happened to her too Ange was the first to notice the bruise on her cheek and the puffyness on her lip/chin Ange kept saying I wonder what happened that is when Dager said he wanted to file a complaint for her mistreatment in holding, so we kind of thought she had been in a tussle with someone...JZ said he will discuss that at the next hearing, I don't know if that will be on the 17th or tomorrow in camera....
You had asked me one time about lemini (sp?) well that word was mentioned today by JZ I don't remember what he was saying but I did hear it. he also sited the Brady motion again.
Hope Jack is feeling better soon, tell him our thoughts and prayers are with both of you right now.... T
at 09:53 on February 15th, 2011
A Motion in Limine(MIL) is a motion that can be filed by either side requesting that something be allowed / not allowed to be admitted as evidence at trial. The MIL may have to do with X. Just a guess but Kelly may have filed the Motion in Limine for X testimony and tapes to be admitted. Remember when JZ asked KC if she would be filing a motion? That may be what he was talking about...??? although IIRC that was the hearing where Dager proposed the plea deal that they couldn't agree on . In response Dager likely filed the Massiah motion to oppose the MIL.
Was it JZ who mentioned Brady? If so, that was likely in reference to the discussion about Dager not wanting to trust Kelly to decide what is relevant in the sealed case pertaining to X's other testimony for the state. As officers of the court they are obligated to turn over all discovery and especially evidence that may benefit the defendant(exculpatory). There are some less than honest DA's who might withhold possibly exculpatory evidence from the defense and that is a Brady violation. A Brady violation can result in a case be overturned. The Ribe box was a Brady violation in Salazar. (Do I have that right badboobie?)
Haha@ Ange, I'm not sure if there isn't a course in law school on "Whining".......I can't think of a defense attorney who I haven't seen whine in court at one time or all the time. Honestly, I've seen a few prosecutors whine too.
J13 used to sell shirts, mugs, hats, etc...that said, "Little blue pills make attorney's grow taller." (little blue pills = Viagra, attorneys = dicks LOL)
Just a thought I wonder if BB is on that witness list? SB's brother? They were on the scene that night. Maybe BB doesn't want word to get out to his girlfriends that he is involved in this case. Just speculating again.
I need to read up on CA rules of procedure but in most cases (various states) expert witness testimony is treated differently than civilian testimony. Disclosure of what the expert will testify to is important by means of raw notes, reports, etc so the opposition can prepare for deposition and/or their cross exam. In some states (FL is one) both sides take depositions of ALL of both sides witnesses so there are no Perry Mason moments aka trial by ambush.
TTYS
at 23:02 on February 15th, 2011
Hi everyone...sorry I could not make it on the 14th as you all know why...so fricken glad Valentine's Day is over!!!!
So, I will be there in court on the 17th.
I hope you are all doing well.
at 13:20 on February 17th, 2011
Hi all
Today was slow again, did not see SB until 11am.
Ok, Dager and Cromer have until 3/2 to complete the exchange of discovery or JZ said he is going to impose sanctions, that the case is now 563 days old, he said I understand the severity of the case, it carries a potential of LIFE, but we need to get it to trial already.
This is the first time I have heard JZ say a LIFE sentence and not 15 or 25 to Life. when Grandma heard that Ange said she saw he shudder in her seat, SB looked shocked and scared also. It caught everyone off guard! I don't think Dager has mentioned that it could be a Life sentence to anyone.
Today only Grandma B and the other Grandfather were there, no BB and no Grandpa B. Craig was there and asking about the last hearing, some people didn't care for us talking to him but whatever...
Cromer gave Dager some more transcripts of the Trial X was in before she said she had gone over 7000+ pages so far and anything that has X'S name mentioned she gave to Dager today, that she is still going to go over the last 1000 pages and that the tapes are Cassette tapes and she has to have them put on CD and will give them to Dager.
JZ wants all discovery done because he does not want to see the case go to an appellate court because of PC 1054 (discovery) non compliance.
Dager gave Cromer the Report from Dr. Bonnell and is waiting for Reports from Dr. Arroyo, that Dager has tried to get in touch with her but she has not gotten back to him thus far.
Craig held the door open for us and Kelly was right behind us so Craig said so trial will start on the 2nd? Cromer said I wish but no, it has to start within 30 days of that date, so I would say towards the end of March, 3/2 is 0 of 30...how am I suppose to do my job when I don't have the Report to know what the Expert witness is going to testify to?
So we will see what happens on the 2nd...
LC where are youuuuuuuu???
at 15:02 on February 17th, 2011
Thanks for the report, T! We appreciate you taking the time out of your day to go to the hearings. The "life" statement sound like Judge Z thinks the evidence against Stacey is good enough for the prosecution to ask for life, and I think perhaps it brought Stacey down to earth. Perhaps now she is beginning to realize the severity of what she did - not that I think she has any remorse for baby Emma, but because she realizes that she could end up spending the rest of her life in prison.
Was any mention made about Stacey's "mistreatment" or how or where it took place? If it was another inmate, Stacey better get used to it because when she gets to Chowchilla that will be a daily occurrence for her. Her princess persona won't help her survive in the bighouse!
at 15:57 on February 17th, 2011
Thanks for the update, Tori!
Does anyone know if SB is in protective custody or is she in GP?