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This is an eyewitness report from the NowPublic member ACE PRESTON who was on the scene.
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"Thailand's Death Hotels, David Carradine, & The Wrath of God"
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by ACE PRESTON | June 5, 2009 at 11:16 pm
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(from Ace Preston's "Adventures in Southeast Asia" series continued..)
Thailand I was once told meant "land of smiles" but I prefer to call it by it's old name of Siam just as I call Myanmar Burmur. Could you picture North Korea renaming itself "Pal" or "Friend".
The thai are unlike any other asiatic culture in Southeast Asia. Unlike the Vietnamese, Laotians, Burmese, and Cambodians who had to fight colonization the Thai proudly claim they have never been colonized however Thailand today has become westernized and Bangkok is a modern highly advanced city.
Phi Phi is definitely a haunted island.
It's nearby sister island which features Maya Bay was where some of the scenes from the movie "The Beach" was filmed featuring Leonardo DiCaprio. Another nearby island called Ko Tapu was the setting for Roger Moore's James Bond movie "The Man with the Golden Gun".
On Phi Phi or Pi Pi Island depends on which way you spell it the answers to the causes of deaths of the two tourists remains elusive. Staff and government officials remain silent and even went as far as to deny that the events even occurred as I walked the alleys of Phi Phi recently.
When I questioned locals as to the location of the hotel where the deaths occurred many people on the island to include scuba staff from Australia didn't even know what I was asking about! After speaking to various sources I was given the name to at least three different hotels where the deaths occurred and even when I thought I located the right hotel I was again wrong.
Thailand a "kingdom" is an amazing country when you consider it is completely surrounded by dictatorships like Malaysia to the south, Burma to the west, Vietnam/Cambodia to the east, Laos/China to the north but lately with the recent government protests it closely resembles it's repressive neighbors when it comes to freedom of the press.
I guess they must protect their primary source of income which is tourism.
The thai like many other cultures including mine are a very superstitious people as one can tell by seeing all the spirit houses located throughout the country. Back in 2004 after the tsunami struck Phi Phi the owner of the Phi Phi Cabana lost over sixty employees. Later on he stated he was having problems hiring new replacement workers because the locals were avoiding the island fearing it was haunted.
What was a cataclysmic event has been deemed by some as the "Wrath of God".
I called it coincidence but on December 26, 2004, (Thai time).. which was actually December 25, 2004 Christmas Day in the United States.. a wave the japanese call a tsunami struck areas of southeast asia primarily Phuket and Pi Pi Island in Thailand. Some say it cleaned up Phuket for a short while for the sake of the righteous still dwelling there in. Others say it actually made the waters cleaner.
Anyone who has been to Phuket/Patong Beach and other areas of Thailand such as Soi Nana, Soi Cowboy, and Patpong which I mistakenly called Pat Porn for many years would know what I meant by this.
If there are any other forms of debauchery remaining in the world which resembles the biblical cites of Sodom & Gomorrah it would be the streets, roads, and alley ways of Bangla Road located in Patong Beach Phuket Thailand which has become a haven of hooligans and prostitutes once more. I thought when I returned to this city five years later it would be cleansed. I was sad and disappointed to see that the same vices and sexual deviations had returned.
According to the Old Testament in the Book of Genesis 18 the cities of Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim were destroyed by fire and brimstone. God had come with two angels appearing as men to Abraham. God informed Abraham that he will investigate Sodom and Gomorrah because their sin is very grievous. Abraham inquires of God to spare the city if 50 righteous people were found within it. The numbers dwindled to 30, 20, and then 10.
It was then that God's two angles proceeded towards Sodom and were met by Lot, the righteous nephew of Abraham.
Lot defends the angels when a mob surrounds his house wanting to have their way with the angels when the angels rescue Lot by striking the men with blindness. The angels then command Lot to gather his family and leave Sodom revealing they were sent there to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.
Once you leave you can never go back.
Some have even deemed "The Collapse of the Twin Towers" to the Wrath of God comparing the towers to the biblical "Tower of Babel" which had to eventually come down by a handful of men in the name of god. How can you argue against that?
Some have even gone as far to claim the Wrath of God for the untimely death of Heath Ledgar ... believing he had tarnished the Sacred Image of the American Cowboy for his role in the film "Broke Back Mountain".
Why shouldn't H.I.V., A.I.D.'s, and Hepatitis be considered modern day plagues or Avian Flu, Bird Flu, Mad Cow Disease, or Swine Flu..
I was recently in Thailand to visit Burma, Malaysia, and to analysis the military conflict at the newly designated UNESCO site on the Thai/Cambodian border.
On the day I left Bangkok David Carradine was found dead in another Thailand hotel. Do we really have to question how and why he died? No, I already gave you the answers although I believe that Thailand means "land of smiles" but then again that's what I was told. Others seem to disagree.
... quote Milton's "Paradise Lost"...
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Most RecentMost Recommended Comments (35)
at 23:33 on June 5th, 2009
Good Post ACE. Very well written.
at 23:40 on June 5th, 2009
ditto
at 05:59 on June 6th, 2009
Thank you Paschen.. I was writing this particular story during my recent stay there but it wasn't till Carradine died 4 weeks later that I knew how to end it.. talk about coincidence.. anyway I finally made it out but David got left behind.. thank you again..
at 23:55 on June 5th, 2009
Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father." That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today." (Genesis 19:30-38)
Plus:
"Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof." (Genesis 19:8)
"On the day I left Thailand, David Carradine was found dead in Bangkok in another Thai hotel. Do we really have to question how and why he died? No, I already gave you the answer" No you have not, you have given us your assumption.
at 06:30 on June 6th, 2009
Yes, the story of Lot goes to extremes. His daughters I suppose on a social level were exposed to the decadence of Sodom having grown up there thus becoming products of their own environment but Lot remains a righteous man...The GBU-43/B "MOAB" (nicknamed the "Mother Of All Bombs" which stands for "Massive Ordnance Air Bomb" not named after the son of Lot's older daughter, was developed for the US military by Albert Weimorts Jr. It is a large yield conventional bomb equivalent to the same force of an atomic bomb and at the time it was the most powerful non-nuclear weapon ever designed.
On Carradine.. it is simple if you read into the various paragraphs and past sample indicators of suicide/accidental deaths/deviant sexual behaviors and the man's Hollywood lifestyle of debauchery.. On the previous paragraphs I had stated on a personal basis that staff and gov. officials on Phi Phi were reluctant to admit or release info. This much is true.
...but did you know if the lung sample from one of dead tourists on Phi Phi which was taken for autopsy disappeared from the lab? Do you know if more than two people died at that particular hotel? Do you know if at least a total of twelve other people died at other hotels on the island? Do you know what 3 million baht can buy on Phi Phi Island which was the amount I heard mentioned. I know these things but I can't say. I don't have physical proof but I know what was there.
I wasn't there for David Carradine but as a Criminologist I am familiar with the term Erotic Asphyxiation which results sometimes in accidental deaths. It is believed that Michael Hutchence the former lead singer to INXS died from such a method in 1997. Death is just one of those things that you just had to be there to know cause death in itself doesn't leave many witnesses behind but it does leave evidence. Contrary to past beliefs "Dead men do tell tales" especially today in the modern world of Forensic Science. This I'm assured the Thai Police will screw up in more ways than one.. accidentally or purposely..
The truth of the matter is that the major source of income for Thailand is tourism and prostitution but isn't that the case everywhere else.
at 03:44 on June 6th, 2009
"The truth of the matter is that the major source of income for Thailand is tourism and prostitution but isn't that the case everywhere else." It also a big earner here in the Philippines and that I feel is a shame. But Thailand has become the sex holiday center of Asia for sure.
I have not seen a report of anything stolen from David Carradine? As the guy is famous I expect that the Thai Police will be leaned on, but I expect we will never know the truth. I however think that nothing should be assumed.
By and by, many tourists have been murdered here (normally shot) in the Philippines and once again the police seem hopeless in their investigations. They do a lot of assuming as well and the cases come to a dead end..
at 15:08 on June 7th, 2009
On the Philippines.. Luzon, Truk Lagoon (wreck diving), Leyte.. are all major WWII battle sites but spending time in the Philippines to photograph such historical locations can be quite hazardous to one's health. I was enroute there years ago after a group of tourist divers from various countries were held hostage and the american was specially selected and be-headed. Kinda remains me of Ferdinand Magellan and Lapu-Lapu "Kaliph Pulaka".
On the sex trade.. I was doing another story about a certain town in the northeast region of Thailand located on the Khorat Plateau within the province of Isan where foreigners are taking children as their wives but I got diverted and couldn't make it there and expose the perverts!
Yeah one can write tons of crap of what goes on in these countries which makes me sick. Sure I can sit around and ignore it... laugh about it instead by writing humorous articles like "Is it a Male or is it Female?.. It's a Ladyboy!" or "What is better? A Real Woman or a Ladyboy?" How about an article on how it's easier to find a prostitute than a cheeseburger in Bangkok.
I tell you the exploitation of women and children makes me quite angry but I rather deal with these social issues than end up writing fickle songs like "Fruit Salad" or " I got my hand in a barrel of pickles" also known as the "Delancy Street Song" and anything beats watching Thai MTV or some bone head rapper named "Juicy Fruit"... but most of the time I end up deep in-country falling asleep during the day time on some pile of bird shit which unfortunately hasn't led to the discovery of any type of fungus for a new wonder drug/cure for some old/new disease and then I end up escorted by the likes of guys like Yat Sala and Sen Son who have acknowledged that a guitar case is the perfect form of luggage to carry a Remington sniper rifle unless of course someone asks you to perform a song whereas you can teach the natives the Burmese version of "La Cucaracha" or "Guantanamera".
at 05:40 on June 6th, 2009
I live on Negro and like to keep away from the noisy cities. I hate the sex holiday crowd the guys are gutter trash normally on social security behaving badly.
at 06:35 on June 6th, 2009
I'm not familiar with Negro but it's nice to know there are some decent places out there. After all I couldn't think of a better place to retire than southeast asia.
at 07:29 on June 6th, 2009
Interesting piece - do you believe any of the stories about Carradine being involved in some kind of sex act when he died or do you think that's speculation?
at 09:03 on June 6th, 2009
I guess we have to wait till the police complete the report but it seems that way.
at 16:04 on June 7th, 2009
Isn't Thailand the place where Benedictine Thomas Merton also died? It was said he died from electrocution....a faulty fan... And I have to say..because Thailand is the way it is...is because the West made it that way... Who goes to spend their money on the whores? None other than the Westerners.. It is like the drug problem....who is at fault the dealers or the buyers and users?
I have a difficult time believing Carradine died of suicide. He was getting up there in age at 72.. and was known to have done drugs before.. It is likely he was under the influence and was over taken. Maybe he was into a drug deal...and the money battle occured...and he lost the fight..... A younger grasshopper Kung Fu'ed him to death. . ..Such a tragedy....to know....but maybe this will encourgage the Western tourist to stay away from Thailand...
I have never been there...and have no desire to ever go......
Rev. Jermano
at 16:23 on June 7th, 2009
I don't blame you for not wanting to go. Thailand isn't for everybody but there are many foreigners who go there for other reasons then prostitution. Many are medical doctors who volunteer their services to help out children and the poor in isolated areas. There is the Peace Corp. and missionaries as well as companies doing legit business there. It is also a beautiful country. It isn't all bad. There is good and evil in us all. Hopefully the good overcomes the bad.
As far as Carradine.. this issue is so terrible and disappointing that I'm going to leave it alone and remember David for the good role models he played in such characters as "Kung-Fu"'s Kwai Chang Caine and Cole Younger in "The Long Riders".
at 17:04 on June 7th, 2009
You can not blame the West for the evils seen in Thailand, but you can blame the crooks most are home grown and many more from other Asian places including China, Hong Kong etc. and Korea. Its not only westerners looking for sex holiday that go to the sin cities.
Human beings are the problem, prostitution is also a problem in main land china. Asian's have always been a hot bed for sexual sinning, way before people in the west ventured here. Eroticism was an ancient art in India and women where exploited by the Japanese, Chinese and within most Asian societies. It has of course become bigger business due to globalization etc. But you can not just point to the West.
at 02:18 on June 8th, 2009
Bob it is pretty clear all the porn that goes on in Thailand and the big money comes from the Westerner Businessmen.. A simple Thai Porn search will show most of the Tom Dick and Harry's are Western.. The Problem with Thailand they don't outlaw it? What it's Nevada and Las Vegas in a country? And who supports the Computer Online Business? You got it right Bob..the West who invented it. Ok I can't just point to the West....So I have 5 fingers and one is not pointing to the West...
Rev. Jermano
at 08:12 on June 11th, 2009
I don't consider the west the main problem to asia's sex trade. I mean do you consider Australians westerners? Do you consider the entire west coast of the US as western? Being western is a state of mind and in which direction is the west anyway. There are many different types of westerners. I don't consider Spaniards or the latin culture the same type of westerners as the English or French. I don't even consider eastern europe as westerners especially former soviet block countries such as East Germany etc.. The Japanese after the Meiji Restoration slowly became a western society as far as their clothes, music, architecture etc.. is concerned.
No, the problem doesn't orientate from the west. I didn't mean it to sound that way. The problem orientates with economics and morals. Everybody seems to have a price. Some cheaper than others.
at 15:26 on June 11th, 2009
The West is considered the English countries...to include Australia.. I consider France part of the Western influence since they are so close to England. Japan was taken over by the West. It was America's HongKong.... Hong Kong was stolen from China by England.
And since the internet came from the West....it has supported a 25 billion dollar sex voyuerism network industry..... I do blame the sex industry on the West...no doubt in my mind about that...
Rev. Jermano
at 02:38 on June 8th, 2009
Thailand is one of my favorite countries to visit. I don't do drugs and I have no need of prostitutes. The country is about much more than that. I like the people who I find very helpful and kind.
In all my years I have never had a single problem. They have some of the best beaches in the world and there are still many places to visit which most tourists don't bother with.
I love the food too!
at 02:49 on June 8th, 2009
I suppose that is why they have tanks in the streets, and riots between the two political groups fighting between each other all the time... Which only reinforces my belief that Democracy is nothing but a war between the haves and the have not people. Two good people I know have died in Thailand...makes me never want to go there...
at 08:19 on June 11th, 2009
The article is only a small piece to a large complex society. It deals with a few limited current event issues and doesn't state my whole or personal beliefs on actual Thai culture, society, and community which I consider perhaps my favorite place in the world regardless.
at 19:35 on June 7th, 2009
Nice piece? Well written? You poor unfortunate man. I had a difficult time reading this piece because I could not believe what I was reading. I doubted that someone with the mental faculty sufficient to read and write could possibly think such things... not to mention that it was disjointed and the only point being made seems to be that you are so enthralled with your own biblical fairytales that you attempt to link the most deadly acts of nature to the acts of a god to cleanse the world of sin and debauchery. That is sick... just plain sick.
You sound almost gleeful about the deaths of so many innocent people in the Tsunami stating, "It cleaned up Phuket for a short while for the sake of the righteous still dwelling there in." Yes, I say innocent people because unlike so many people "of god" that use ridiculous biblical references like yours as some kind of supportive evidence for your hate, the people that work in Patong make others happy, hurt no one and provide for their families. They did not deserve to die at the hands of a vengeful god, nor did they, but you sound so positively awe-struck by the idea and only saddened that more did not die.
Then, as if this makes your point, you give us the story of Lot, that horrible man that offered up his innocent daughter to the crowd in lieu of the angels .... yes, such a righteous man.
I can tell you this Ace, the world would be a much nicer place if it were filled with sex and debauchery rather than religion inspired hate... but I still would never want you to be "cleansed" from this Earth... just given your appropriate medications and kept away from sharp objects lest you hurt yourself ... or others.
at 23:32 on June 7th, 2009
You failed to understand the format. Each section I write corresponds with a subliminal alternative leading to the dismal conclusion the general public seeks based on one of the rules of journalism which implies "Bad news is good News". If you are not familiar with my style you will fail to pick up on my true intentions. My method of hidden sarcasm is hard to notice or understand at first for some.. as is the case here.
Ex... I use quotes from the bible as a joke in many of my stories as a tragic tactic to unconsciously criticize organized religion and it's exaggerations. This also includes government. Just because I write something doesn't mean I believe it was meant the way it was intended. I'm just setting up a path which leads to an ending based on righteousness and irony. You're suppose to mentally drift away and get lost after reading the introduction till it's conclusion. The way I write I see things in life as a beginning and an end. I really don't care for the in-between. I believe the way you die is more important than how you lived your life. The way you live your life is at times an indicator on how you die so you don't worry for the present. My writing has nothing to do philosophical existentialism. I'm not a big fan of Camus or Kafka.
By using the "Wrath of God" as a sample I stated that "some" have claimed these things. I was implying hypocrisy. I included other samples in the "Wrath..." such as events of 9/11 to even indicate another previous actor who met another bizarre death. Exploiting the current event is not my modus operandi but in this case I was indirectly involved being at certain locations where these events took place.
My comparison points are established to indicate how the general public behaves and feeds off the misery of others. I didn't write an article were I insulted the thai people by calling them gooks, dinks, zipperheads, or slopes. No.. I spoke well of their country and culture when comparing them to the colonization period and post-Vietnam era of southeast asia. Tyranny and Racism I will never accept on any level by any race, nation or religion but because I can freely talk about it I liberate the mind.
If you look at my photos which is the purpose of my article it would reveal the decisive alternative I sought through the "art of photography". I'm a photographer. I don't care to write articles for the sake of writing and I don't even consider myself a writer. I do it as a translation of my photography. Period. A photo can express so many words.. I give hints as to what it could imply leaving the individual conclusion to the translations of the many. I won't settle for one definition to any particular photo. I want to hear different points of view and variations. I want to rattle emotions.. logic.. tradition. That is what art is about. Just like science it is not there to agree with us or make us feel better about ourselves. We don't always have to be right. That is not what this is about.
As far as sex and debauchery I cannot agree on that. As a social scientist I have dealt with the issues of children, rape victims infected with HIV, Hepatitis, and full blown AIDS as well the mental health issues created by it. This especially includes those implemented in the sex slave trade however you define it. I will never promote a civilization built on social decay and those that do are an enemy of man. The man that makes me your enemy- it is he who be the guilty one.
at 00:06 on June 8th, 2009
For your information, the name "Thailand" does not mean "Land of Smiles," which is a nickname. "Thailand" means "Land of the Free."
at 01:17 on June 8th, 2009
So I've been told.
In the article I mention that I was once told it meant "land of smiles". I didn't say that was the actual meaning of the name. The information had been given to me by a thai national which goes along with this particular article in that it purposely implements the different forms of misinformation, lack of knowledge, denial, media scrutiny etc.. in how the press and general public always jump to conclusions.
This story line utilizes the deaths of David Carradine, the two tourists, and many of the innocents killed during the events of 26 Dec 04 and 9/11. I even went as far to include the biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah. It's all a ruse.
Even in the end I conclude the article by saying that I have already given you the answers when I hadn't. Why? Because nobody has the answers yet.
Though it should be the end death at times presents more questions than answers.
What I meant by this is that death is not the end.
at 08:48 on June 8th, 2009
well done Ace enjoyed reading this story.
at 08:25 on June 11th, 2009
Thank you jazzyzazzy..!
at 09:45 on June 8th, 2009
interesting article, i really enjoy reading this article.
thanks for nice post
at 08:25 on June 11th, 2009
Thank you Tukang Nggame..!
at 20:18 on June 8th, 2009
finally! a voice of reason. SHOCKED! may the gawds bless you. How, even if one could believe their is A god that IT would be so small as to "bless" man with killing its famous humans in such a fashion. Heath, David, Michael ... and who in the last generation. Please. THIS almost.... almost does not deserve comment EXCETP that whomever SHOCKED is found it, worthy of comment.
One as ignornant, blind and delusional should not be addressed directly. So, I addressed you, SHOCKED, that the gawds there are people who think.
may the gawds have mercy on..... um.... yeah, well....
at 21:30 on June 8th, 2009
Ace...you are brutalizing the English language. If you cant speak it or write it correctly use spell check.
As far as Thailand is concerned... I've lived there exclusively since 2001. I'm no Sex tourist and never have employed sex for pay in my life...btw its THAILAND! If your a gentleman and can court a woman without disrespecting her with lewd talk then finding a hottie for a serious ltr is not a problem. There are pretty women everywhere you look here hoping to meet a foreign GENTLEMAN. Not some Euro or Western Trash here on holiday to explore thier most perverted desires. 99% of Thais are the most respectful and respective people you will ever find on the face of the earth. Its the 1% that "voluntarily" engage in sex tourism and those ENTICED by either promises of a better life theu human smuggling or those just plain FORCED into the sex trade that give the country a bad rep.
You can thank the U.S. military for promoting these values during R&R visits to Thailand during the Vietnam Conflict. We are arogant decadent people who spead those ideals worldwide whether by finance or force. These "voluntary" sex workers are being exploited and don't realize it and worse still are those smuggled women and children who are forced into this vile "business". And the "John's" are equally at fault to prey on people who are in no position to oppose them. Personally...I could never respect myself if for even an instant I made someone feel worse about their life by sexually exploiting them...even if it is thier chosen profession. Respectable Thai's laugh at the fact FARANGS will chase the most revolting Thai prostitutes when there are so many GOOD girls seeking a REAL Foreign GENTLEmen.
FYI: the average salary in Thailand is........DrumRoll Please...........1,500.00 baht a week or $35.00 U.S. a week. The "SYSTEM" has victimized these people enough... deviant Farangs needent add to these people's misery.
And for those of you "AFRAID" to visit Thailand because of recent political unrest know its an internal matter. It has nothing to do with Farangs nor are we being targeted. Red Shirts, an afluent group that supports the former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shiniwat. A corrupt PM who sold a multi BILLION dollar Telecom Co. he owned in Singapore and then refused to pay any taxes on this transaction wich would have been in the MILLIONS of Dollars. This $ is BADLY NEEDED for the Thai People at the lowest rung of the economic ladder. Thaksin was deposed by a bloodless military coupe when he was out of the country. His supporters have since lost all thier influence and so have recenly become violent. The opposition to the red shirts are the Yellow shirts who truly represent the Non Privilidged classes. The red shirts 2 months ago became so upset they targeted the leader of the yellow shirts for assasination. And in the streets of Bangkok they blocked his motorcade with 2 pickup trucks and proceeded to fire from automatic machine guns over 100+ rounds into his van. Badly injuring the yellow shirts leader's driver and grazing the leader's head. This man was surely meant to Live & lead if over 100+ shots missed him at a distance of 15 feet. What your watching is a microcosm of what will soon occur in the USA. The HAVE"S against the HAVE NOT'S. And after living in Thailand now 9 years I can tell you everytime I return to the USA its more of a police state than the time before and its populace have become more violent, fat and stupid than the time before. Having watched the news from Thailand I can tell you without a doubt you sheep in the the states are living in an Orwellian society unawares. Blacked out, filtered or even worse scripted manufactured news.
I encourage everyone to find out all they can about the New World Order, Illuminati, The Fed, etc, etc and discover how the world REALLY operates and not the crap you were taught in school. Most of it was bullshit anyway... I also encourage people to learn about supplimenting your car's Gasoline/Diesel fuel with Hydrogen. You can make a simple cell yourself quite inexpensivly that will pay for itself in 2 months and cut your cars fuel bills by almost HALF. It's 100 year old Tech surpressed by big oil companies. If your not mechanically inclined there are many places online to purchase one but only My company makes the Safest Hydrogen Fuel Cell on the market. If so inclined I encourage you to visit us at http://www.Thaihydrogen.com or research the web on HHO or Hydrogen Fuel Cell's to make a concerted effort to make a Global difference by acting Locally.
I thank everyone for taking the time to read my reply and to forgive me if I moved slightly off center of the topic.
Thanx
Angel