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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/11/opinion/11sun2.html
"Perhaps now we can put the manufactured controversy known as Climategate behind us and turn to the task of actually doing something about global warming. On Wednesday, a panel in Britain concluded that scientists whose e-mail had been hacked late last year had not, as critics alleged, distorted scientific evidence to prove that global warming was occurring and that human beings were primarily responsible."
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anymoose (not verified)at 12:10 on July 11th, 2010
advance in science caused the problem. math, physics, engineering, chemistry, etc. now scientist hold themself as moral political authority but bought and paid for. scientist lost peoples trust by taking up politics instead of staying impartial scientist. scientist have long way to go to regain trust in value of their opinion as long as it can be bought.
at 15:55 on July 11th, 2010
You're a moron. Without science, you would not have your car, your TV, your computer, and most of the things that you have.
Scientists are the ones that knew about global warming in 1980s and had real solutions to the problem. Right-wing government of the time, Christian fundamentalists, and Texas Oil resisted the truth and prevented what could have been an easy and cheap solution. So now because of these entities we have a much bigger crisis than there should have been.
The problem is precisely with bought entities such as the Texas Oil and the Christian Right. If not for them, this would have been solved a long time ago by implementation of real solutions.
At this point it matters nothing to what extent solutions are put in place by private entities or by governments for as long as it gets done.
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anymoose (not verified)at 16:54 on July 11th, 2010
with out science no problem because no industry based on chemistry, oil, plastic, fertilizer, mercury, ddt, pcb, fiberglass etc. would be. science owes is much responsibility as any industry. but this does not suit the moral relativist who want to blame any one who don't jump on the bandwagon as problem and moron. also scientist not unified body for any one scientist say one thing another scientist say no. so idea scientist would have healed the world long time ago is nonsense because real usable knowledge in climate change as pollution and man made is still highly argumented by scientist all around the world. history has shown many climate changes going back long time before industrial revolution. industry is always changing as technology advances. money is real problem because industrial switch is going to cost millions of dollars and probably millions of jobs. also public not using green energy to run the house. going off grid. public needs to speak loud because no industry is going to produce to not sell. catch 22
at 20:14 on July 11th, 2010
1. While there have been climate changes before, at no time in measured history was there more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere than there is now, nor have the oceans been as acidic as they are now. This is positive proof of what global warming scientists have known: That vastly raising carbon emissions while at the same time cutting down the trees that absorb it is a disaster, and not only because it changes the climate.
2. Conversion to clean energy is in fact very economically viable and will create many jobs during construction while creating prosperity over the long term as inefficient and wasteful technologies are replaced with ones that are more sound and more economical. It is an equivalent of converting from candles to electricity. It will boost prosperity, not cost prosperity.
3. There is nothing morally relative about changing to viable technological solutions that will make it possible for people to have everything they have now, and much more, while vastly reducing the cost to the planet and to the future generations. This is a moral positive, in a very absolute sense.
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anymoose (not verified)at 21:33 on July 11th, 2010
1. earth is closed system and many times in history co2 was much greater than now. captured and released and recaptured and is being released. same with oceans. oceans also a dynamic not static environment. 2. changing entire industrial and economic engine will not be free from cost or employment loss. renewable energy will create some jobs maybe even for argument many jobs but they must be balanced with huge job loss from carbon based fuels. also renewable energy not as efficient large scale and will see job loss as industry downscales to meet new energy requirements of equipment as all equipment will have to change to meet power to work ratios. whole industrial world will have to be rewired. this is much greater problem and science and technology must use step by step or economic collapse far more damaging and prospect of wars very real as countries try to maintain economics. 3. there is something to the fact that most of the climate hysterics is made by people who think it ideology and go around trying to paint everyone with rightwing nametag or denier because they think rather than have emotional violent outburst name calling. 4. there is big difference between business which generates wealth and government which does not as it will be money that is rely on to accomplish change. loss business, loss jobs, loss income, loss tax base. like protesters who want everyone to boycott bp but still want bp to pay billions to clean up oil spill. no business income, loss investors, even less income, loss jobs next thing protesters have great victory bp bust now taxpayer foot cleanup. people have to think not just react emotionally to events.
at 22:51 on July 11th, 2010
The arguments above are similar to those of the Luddites. They thought that mechanization of industry would cost everyone their jobs. What it did instead was create giant prosperity that allowed people to have much better jobs and a much higher standard of living. The same with implementation of high-technology solutions in energy sector, the added benefit being that the planet will last far longer and that there will be a better world for future generations to enjoy.
The idea that business builds prosperity whereas the government doesn't is simply not true to reality. Without science - a government-funded, vastly Democratic, endeavor - most of what American business sells would not exist, and American GDP would be a fraction of what it is now. Government-built Interstate and roads make possible large-scale commerce, and without them American GDP would likewise be far less than it is now. The Internet that you use, and that has been the backbone of vast rise in business productivity in America and worldwide, was also a government project. American government is responsible for far more of American prosperity than way too many people in America are willing to admit.
One would not refer to people who care about the future of the planet as hysteric if one were to study the facts, and also if one were to use common sense. You raise carbon emissions while cutting down trees that absorb it, there is vast rise in CO2 that has nowhere to go except oceans and atmosphere. It goes in the oceans, it makes them acidic and kills what lives there. It goes in the atmosphere, it reflects sunlight back to earth and causes all kinds of disastrous climatic events. The last of these have been ongoing and in every part of the world, including America, and at far higher rate than in recorded history. This goes on, glaciers melt, ocean currents get re-routed, coastal areas flood, etc. This carries clear and present danger to hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people, and we will see vast loss of life and property that people have created as well as irreversible damage to many things that people have not created and cannot re-create. It is hard to see how one would not see that as a wrong that requires urgent correction if one possesses any kind of conscience.
This, once again, was known by scientists as early as 1980s; but conscience of the time had been usurped by people who thought it more morally rightful to make everyone follow the party line of Pat Robertson and hope for an Armageddon in our lifetime while making sure that people's lives were so unbearable that they too would hope for such a thing. So that while fundamentalist Christianity has continued to rail about immorality of science and rapaciousness of the government, it is in fact science and government that has taken the true morally upstanding stance. Providing sustainable, livable world for the future generations is a vastly more righteous stance than hoping for Armageddon, working to bring it about, or standing in the way of sustainability. For people who claim to have family values to inflict on their children a ruin on this scale is an atrocity. And true family values - as well as true principle - demands putting into place real technological solutions to this very real, absolute, moral wrong.
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anymoose (not verified)at 07:45 on July 12th, 2010
thank you. continue to prove my point. you don't think you make emotional assertions and call it thinking. you have no idea what you want done you just want it done now and stamp your feet in high anxiety because the world isn't marching to your tune. and since you leftist ideologue everyone else is pat robertson. lol. science not democratic. science is autocratic it has rules that are not open for debate laws that can not be weakened to adapt to every event. and scientist come in all political flavors again you and gross assumption. fundamental christianity lol yes they behind global warming. private industry building roads and rail long before govt. contract to private industry to make more. here is list of industry working to reduce greenhouse gas from just one organization. iccp. there are many organizations made up of different industry.
just because you not doing anything in your life to stop greenhouse gas don't mean no one is and everyone should carry your guilty conscience. i bet you have huge carbon footprint like al gore jetting around world telling everyone not to do the same.lol hypocrites
at 03:43 on July 13th, 2010
I very much do know what I want done. I want implementation of high-technology, high-intelligence, high-progress clean energy solutions that will fulfil all of people's present energy needs and more while vastly reducing burden on the planet. I happen to be privy to one such technology and have posted links to it on this forum a number of times. In case you missed it, here it is again:
http://www.adda-enterprises.com/HTNwebsite/home.htm
That private industry firms are finally working to reduce greenhouse gases shows that industry leaders are more honest and more intelligent than global warming deniers. The deniers can no longer claim that the government supports their beliefs, and they can no longer claim that business supports their beliefs, so they make up conspiracy theories about both business and government, e.g. the loony "New World Order" claims of Alex Jones. The constituency behind that is the true danger to America. Obama is nowhere close to being, as these people claim him to be, a Hitler; Alex Jones however very much is.
I am quite certain that my carbon footprint is less than yours. And I have a family of five. I have no guilty conscience on this matter because I have been doing a lot to correct this problem. Whereas American Right has been standing for decades in the way of constructive solutions. If America listened to Gore in the first place, we would by now be all enjoying the benefits of high-technology clean energy solutions. It was right-wingers that shouted him down in the first place and are continuing to do the same.
Yes, fundamentalist Christianity has very much been a large part of the problem. Not only have they convinced people to disregard scientific fact and see scientists as fools and sinners and UN as an anti-American force, but their politicians such as Inhofe have been the most aggressive among the deniers of global warming. Fundamentalist Christianity has a lot to answer for, and no amount of wishing for Armageddon or blaming liberals will alter that fact.
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anymoose (not verified)at 07:56 on July 13th, 2010
there is no way you have smaller carbon foot print than me. i have been sustainable living since 1970's. secondly i went to your website. nothing new. what if future talk. i think you need investigate hydrogen production, transmission and use. cost is enormous just to create infrastructure and production is difficult on mass scale. hydrogen is good idea but will require much time and energy before usable, bio fuels much cheaper and looks like algae fuel will be largest return per acre. thirdly private sector been reducing green house gas long before al gore got paid by ge and other electrobisness to hype their reports of climate doom. like the man say follow the money. success in industry like any other business is efficiency. second rule is to give people what they want. that makes industry less efficient. who killed gm electric car? gm or public attitude? automaker have fuel efficient engine back in 70's with big gas scare but public wanted big v8 gas guzzler. stop blaming industry for building products consumer demand. blame individuals for their choices. deniers always come with hysterics one can not live with out the other.
at 18:32 on July 13th, 2010
First of all, biofuels are carbon fuels just as much as coal and petroleum. If one were to do biofuels, yes, algae is the best resource; but it does not solve the carbon emissions problem.
Secondly, Al Gore was working on this for three decades. He has been working based on scientific evidence, and not based on GE. I personally know someone who's gone with Al Gore to congressional hearings, and that person was affiliated with a famous scientist and had nothing to do with GE.
Third, public attitude is a function of the ideas that inform public attitude. When the propaganda of Texas Oil and Christian fundamentalists is used to turn public attitude away from fact and sustainability and toward aggressive coercion to destructive lifestyles, it is the people behind that propaganda that are most responsible for the problem. Individual choice plays a part; but aggressive social coercion toward wrong choices plays a much bigger part on a systemic scale. People who cared about the environment in 1980s and 1990s - and people who do so now in many parts of America - were shunned, feared and attacked, seen as commies and traitors, treated worse than dirt and screwed over whenever possible. Some people can stand through that; many more wouldn't. So it makes a lot of sense on systemic scale to inform public opinion with fact rather than dogma, and then more people will be able to make the right choice.
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Correct the corrective (not verified)at 09:54 on July 12th, 2010
The "panel in Britain" was from the University of East Anglica itself. No wonder they didn't find or couldn't admit to wrongdoing in their own staff's documentation.
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philo101 (not verified)at 10:42 on July 12th, 2010
From now on, get your information from your local library. It's free! . . . . When studying the earth's climate, over the thousands of years, it's easy to see that there is no threat of global warming. In fact, global warming is a good thing! Global cooling is more dangerous to the survival of humanity, but in any case, there is not significant warming or cooling to be alarmed. I know the facts. I get my facts from the library, not the internet. What was the temperature 1000 years ago? What was the temperature 9000 years ago? How fast have temperatures changed in previous times?
at 03:54 on July 13th, 2010
http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics/
at 03:54 on July 13th, 2010
http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics/
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Astronomer Bill S. (not verified)at 06:53 on July 31st, 2010
The carbon dioxide is being released too fast for plants and oceans to absorb. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that burning hundreds of trainloads of coal, 83,000,000 barrels of oil, and billions of cubic feet of natural gas, every day, will raise the level of CO2 in the atmosphere. CO2 is known to trap heat in the atmosphere, instead of letting it escape into space. You can quit dreaming about China or India remaining poor, while we live high on the hog. It isn't going to happen, no matter what treaties they sign. They will cheat. CO2 will go up and up, and the planet will get warmer and warmer. Our only hope now, is some sort of climate engineering. I like the use of commercial jets to inject sulfur compounds into the atmosphere. They could be modified cheaply to do it. If we let the warming continue until the methane in the polar permafrost regions is released, we will face a catastrophe, unlike anything in recorded history. The flooding, droughts, dust storms, wars and famines will kill billions. And it will happen before this century is over.