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Climate Change MADNESS: Ideology Driven to Disaster!
This is not going to sit well with many folks, but the failure to see this is disturbing.
If AGW is the doomsday machine it's alleged to be, and it may very well not (but let's say it could be) AGW proponents need to gut their ranks on all levels, including scientists and legislaters, sort out the ideological agendas, and decide what's important. Here's why:
Perhaps you've been hiding under a rock and have never learned that the various tenets of the leftist ideology include environmentalism, social services, and globalist socialism- often described as "redistribution of wealth". Nobody protest "that's not ME!" because that's not the point.
Most of the individuals driving much of the climate change alarmism have positions of various portions of this.
This related ideology is the exact reason most of the activism and measures so far are DANGEROUS AND MUST BE STOPPED AT ALL COSTS if arresting climate change matters- they ARE conflicting ideologies.
Bill Clinton was deeply faulted with this same confusion and he is one of the primary players in how we got into this economic and environmental mess as it is.
Globalist Socialism minded Bill Clinton, also being a moderate and capitalist, sees the 1.3 billion people in China as oppressed masses and drops nearly all trade barriers between us early in his term. Sounds great to him as US companies are eager to do business including open factories there (closing them here as well). Clinton also fights for human rights for their people. It's a feel good thing as he sees us bringing the Chinese standard of living up more in line with ours, he helps free them from censorship, they now have the internet, they can see how we live and they want it.
China's industrial revolution happens nearly overnight. Factories spring up everywhere producing things for the world, many of which used to be here- we handed them the know how.
Problem: We couldn't force their industry to adopt the same pollution controls we had been using here on countless chemical and industrial processes. Environmentalists here were also further restricting emissions on various processes and chased the last of it there as well.
ADDITIONALLY BY FREEING THE CHINESE PEOPLE AND ACCELERATING THEIR INDUSTRIALIZATION, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF CHINESE NOW WORK IN FACTORIES, HAVE ELECTRICITY, APPLIANCES, MOTOR VEHICLES, COUNTLESS LUXURIES THEY NEVER HAD AS A RESULT OF THEIR RAISED STANDARD OF LIVING. DRIVEN BY GUILT FOR BEING A "HAVE" AND SEEING THOSE WHO "HAVE NOT".
AGW is allegedly caused by human industrial activity. China long ago surpassed US for carbon output- thanks to globalist socialism policies of Bill Clinton, and I don't care if anyone likes it or not that IS how it went down.
YOU CANNOT RAISE STANDARDS OF LIVING FOR THIRD WORLD MASSES OUT OF GUILT WHILE AT THE SAME TIME RESTRICT A RUNAWAY PROBLEM YOU SAY IS CAUSED BY HUMAN INDUSTRIAL ACTIVITY. CAN I MAKE THIS ANY MORE CLEAR TO AGW PROPONENTS BEFORE THERE IS NOTHING LEFT TO SAVE. This is what's been going on with kyoto. this is why the IPCC is all ****ed up and needs to be shut down IMMEDIATELY. You have all these third world nations being coddled with policies of "carbon equity" and "climate justice" and it's actually funding hospitals, electricity, roads, and all sorts of industrialization in third world countries. It's encouraging corporations to build factories in non annex 1 nations. GGE ARE SOARING.
IT'S ONE OR THE OTHER. BRING UP THE MASSES OR STOP AGW.
I am shouting because it's hard to get past people's defenses of their ideologies.
There is a different direction this goes, some say many of these confused people are AGW scientists who, intentionally or not, have allowed their globalist socialism ideology to influence their work with an anti-capitalist, anti-consumptionism form of environmental self loathing. (please don't hate on the messenger here) This is not an outrageous or unfounded claim. Thus their interpretation of statistical data may have been filtered through an "environmentalism as religion" set of goggles and global warming is not as dire as their numbers suggest. This may explain why they do not seem to notice nor care that GGE since the implementation of Kyoto has soared, as bringing up living standards is their larger agenda.
To be sure this is not a scientific analysis, though I feel that solar variation bears the bulk of influence on temperature changes, and many scientists agree. This is a political issue but the one statistic that again is undeniable is that Global Greenhouse Gas emissions as a whole have risen dramatically since Kyoto's implementation in 1998- even though the lone non signatory nation, the US, had its output only rise moderately. Raise the issue with AGW activists- they don't even want to discuss it.
In any case there are many confused ideologues promoting their side of the AGW alarmism.
According to a critical special contribution written by Lawrie McFarlane in Victoria's Times Colonist, "For socialism, at least in its early form, shared those same instincts—distrust of private enterprise, animus toward wealth, the urge to proselytize and faith in big government. And like environmentalism, it marched under the banner of a superior morality. (...) Environmentalism is neither religion nor science. It is a political mission, every bit as unquestioning as socialism in its heyday, and offering the same giddy promise to followers: The delicious prospect of being in the right, and better still, running things."
AGW is being used to push politics, make negative judgements upon the opposition based upon false moral grounds, and I will say that even though I am very green minded any hint I drop even questioning AGW is met with accusations of "denier" as if I am denying the holocaust. People are misusing it as a vehicle but actually driving it in the wrong direction when they take the sidetrips to indulge their guilt about living in a relatively wealthy society.



Most RecentMost Recommended Comments (14)
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Jeanninardyat 00:55 on May 19th, 2011
can only find values for much higher amounts.
Lean Muscle X
at 06:48 on May 19th, 2011
"IT'S ONE OR THE OTHER. BRING UP THE MASSES OR STOP AGW."
Not true. It is possible to bring up the masses with better technologies.
In the same way as in China everyone now has a cell phone, which allowed them to short-circuit big-screen TVs and large computers with a device that is much smaller in size and takes fewer resources to produce.
at 15:41 on May 19th, 2011
You're trying to rationalize this with an argument that technological improvements produce products that use less energy or resources. That may fly with the portions of civilization which already own a television or computer.
It is however irrelevant to the issue at hand, which is the activities pursued by the IPCC's related programs within the UN, and the results of unevenly applied GGE reduction measures such as Kyoto, have the effect of putting computers and televisions in the hands (or that much closer to) of billions worldwide who would otherwise be living in straw hut with mud floors, no electricity, high infant mortality rates and other primitive ways.
I'm not heartless and there are reasons it is admirable to pursue those contradictory goals. Without a doubt they amount to industrializing all of humanity and seeing many, many more people join in to do damage.
It really is a simple equation:
problem: human industrial activity
high living standard = high level of industrialization =highest carbon footprint per capita
raise living standards of living of people at the lowest levels= largest percentage of population= huge overall carbon increase even if per capita footprint still remains lower.
Note Britain recently pledged that by 2025 they will endeavor to have output 50% below 1990 levels.
While at this same time they will be telling Africa and Asia it's okay, your per capita levels will still be lower. The result will be huge increase in global GGE.
at 16:16 on May 19th, 2011
Once again, the problem is not technology but bad technology.
If they have cars running on hydrogen and electricity and water delivered from electrolysis of ocean water, people will have all the energy they need and with minimal damage to the planet.
at 04:31 on May 20th, 2011
Umm, yeah.
I have a guy on another website (amazon discussion boards) arguing a similar point that we should not calculate the potential effect of industrializing billions in Africa and Asia because humans COULD be using electricity from non fossil fuel generation.
Your points being even more exotic.
Look, I can't put $20k worth of solar panels on my house so I cannot fathom villagers in mud huts in Africa doing the same as they enter the 21st century, I had to tell him.
Just as I cannot with a straight face say the two things you mention will ever be a reality in my lifetime. The technologies you imply should be considered in this debate are not even plausible in the most developed nations today. Are we to pretend that is how peasants in China or villagers in Africa will be living in 5 years?
I know you're just trying to offer what possibilities could be, but the fact is according to AGW alarmists this is a very serious matter we need to be acting on now. Whether the earth is really warming or not, there are serious economic implications- many jobs created or lost- that affects many people whether the planet is doomed or not.
So unless you and that other guy are actually going to break down shortly and say ok, just kidding it's all a joke there is no global warming perhaps it's time to look at these issues seriously.
And in a realistic context of the way things are. Not what you wish they could be. I have discussed similar issues with you before, we disagree almost intensely on certain political aspects, but I do not recall feeling you were unintelligent or unworthy of respect for your position. However, thinking about hydrogen powered cars to defend that Kyoto didn't encourage industrialization of the non annex 1 nations it excluded from its restrictions, is not a serious way to approach this and the level of non concern is reason to suspect it is not so serious at all.
at 19:08 on May 21st, 2011
It's strange that where you are the solar panels are $20k. In Turkey, which is not a wealthy country, many people now have solar panels. As technology gets better, it will also become more affordable. So it will be very much possible to meet people's energy and water needs through processes that are both sustainable and affordable, and many people already do.
at 23:48 on May 22nd, 2011
To generate enough power to take the average home off the grid 7/24, yes I think $20k is realistic, and that's if you do it without storage batteries.
"Many people" in the US "have solar panels" too. Can you provide some documentation regarding the percentage of energy usage in Turkey, or any other country not in the upper tier of wealthy nations, that comes from solar or other GGE neutral sources?
Me thinks your people in Turkey are doing what these hardfcore George W. Bush loving right wingers are doing:
http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=10&f=18&t=632705
Good for a hobby at best.
It's pure fantasy to believe third world populations' industrialization will be powered by sustainable energy sources, and that's certainly not the only issue towards controlling climate change.
The larger issue is that throughout the 90's people were shouting doomsday predictions, by 1998 they implemented a scheme purportedly to address this, the Kyoto Protocol.
In the 12+ years since its implementation, global GGE emissions haven't just kept increasing, they have even increased the rate they were increasing- that "hockey stick" trend.
So how come AGW alarmists seem absolutely unconcerned? Shouldn't you be asking questions of those on your side who sold it as a solution?
The final question: If it's affordable and possible, surely you're off the grid and doing it yourself- or at least experimenting on it, like those NRA nutters- right?
at 21:38 on May 25th, 2011
"It's pure fantasy to believe third world populations' industrialization will be powered by sustainable energy sources, and that's certainly not the only issue towards controlling climate change."
I don't think it's a fantasy. China has been doing a lot of clean energy installations recently (along with not so clean energy installations). If they have leap-frogged TVs, desktops and landlines to go straight to mobile phones, they can certainly leap-frog 20th century energy technologies and go straight to something like Hydrogen Transmission Network. The same is the case with places like India.
There were times that people thought that universal car ownership or computer ownership was fantasy. Now they are everywhere.
So to answer you: Yes, it is possible to fuel industrialization in "third world" through clean energy technologies, there is the need only for political and financial will.
at 04:10 on May 26th, 2011
Your attitude, showing complete lack of concern about the accelerated industrialization of massive third world populations and what this means toward total global GGE in the immediate future, is equivilent to first world nations looking at Global Warming now and saying "aww, it's not a big deal. It'll take care of itself and if it doesn't we'll just adapt."
But really, the rich nations have not been able to industrialize through clean energy- why are you assuming the third world will do so? "Alternative energy" has been an elusive goal quite well funded since the Carter administration, a lot of promise but nothing practical in mass. Many would pretend the evil oil companies have prevented it but that's silly, there'd be an enormous payoff if it could be done.
All in all your complete detachment from reality here only makes your own prolific articles on the issue suspect as driven for political capital against the right. Nothing ad hominem about that, but why repeatedly pound the drum about global warming but not care the cure we were sold in 1998 has by now seen the patient's symptoms get much worse?
You can say "I don't think it's a fantasy" all you like. Hydrogen Transmission Networks ANYWHERE are just that. Total GGE soaring is REALITY:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CO2_emissions_China_USA_1990-2006.svg
Most third world nations show similar gains.
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Anonymously Given (not verified)at 17:54 on June 3rd, 2011
Seems that many of the third world countries have a surplus of what Google thinks is perfect to make electricity: desert. See the description in the following link. Rough overview: 375 Megawatts on 45 square miles of desert ... www.npr.org/2011/04/22/135634392/google-gives-mojave-solar-project-a-boost
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DavidG2at 14:22 on June 5th, 2011
I have seen stories of where they are investing in this infastructure.
at 13:59 on June 7th, 2011
Solar energy on the surface looks like a perfect solution, but there remains an issue with most of the more efficient types of PV panels actually contributing more GGE in the manufacturing process than they save over their projected lifespans. If they can solve this of course it's perfect.
I've been looking at the different types of panels available to consumers while buying the parts for a hobby project, the tech is improved but not yet perfect.
As I told the other user, we can't propose fantasy solutions for immediate concerns if global warming is the crisis they are touting it as, and obviously if it's a fraud that will reveal itself soon enough as well.
I live right on the coast in San Diego, in a low lying area that was sand dunes 100 years ago, I'm 7 feet above sea level. I saw an aerial photo of my block taken in the 1920's, showing sea level/intrusion is no higher now than then.
This does directly conflict with all these claims that the ice sheets have all melted and we're doomed. Temperature statistics can be manipulated, but sea level is sea level and if what they claimed in 1993 when I moved into my duplex was true I should be under water every cycle of high tide now 17 years later, let alone consider how it should have changed from 1950 to 2010. If the sea were rising corresponding to ice sheet melt the way they are warning, the temperature trends of those 60 years should have seen a rise of a dozen feet, yet my coastline has seen virtually no change in 80 years from the photographs.
So I can't claim to be a scientist qualified to judge climate change, but I can't deny the reality that everyone involved in that "science" by logic is only going to be motivated to validate their status quo of beliefs and has no rational whatsoever to dissent from it, and we're likely being misled on many fronts here.
But I like solar if we can stick it to the energy monopolies.
at 04:22 on July 31st, 2011
What they don't have is governments secure enough to make such an investmnent advisable. Hate to burst the bubble butthe reason most impoverished nations are so is deep corruption (helped by backward cultures often revolving around religions and superstition) and their security is fragile, often provided by warlords pillaging the countryside. Witness teams of volunteers who took mobile drilling rigs into The Sudan to help provide running water by sinking wells for these people, an incredibly charitable venture, were routinely held up and robbed of personal belongings and vital equipment and eventually had to abandon their mission.
Did you see the 60 minutes special about the lowland gorillas threatened habitat, why it was threatened, and how entire families of gorillas were senselessly slaughtered for intimidation of park rangers?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/07/60minutes/main3591264.shtml
I have a hard time feeling a lot of sympathy for the third world if such behaviour is common- OR for the industrialized world contributing to AGW.
So why were these kings assassinated? Simply, it seems, for charcoal. More than a million people in this area, practically everyone, use charcoal to cook their food. It's made by burning the trees in the gorillas' forest. They cover mounds of wood with mud and set it on fire, turning the ancient trees into brittle bricks of charcoal.
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anonymously given (not verified)at 08:34 on July 20th, 2011
The solar project to which the Google company is contributing uses simple mirrors (low environmental impact), to reflect light and heat energy into a central collection point - which drives a steam turbine in regular hydrocarbon power-plant style.