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Hydrogen Fuel to replace Oil!?
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by Paschen | June 17, 2008 at 01:50 am
1655 views | 18 Recommendations | 26 comments
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By, Uwe Paschen.
Hydrogen, one of my favorrite topics! After all I did write my engenering teases on the subject in the early 1980 th!
Well it seems that Honda finally build a Hydrogen powered car, however they are by far not the first. VW has been building Hydrogen Cars since the late 70 and still has some 40 prototipes as test cars, driving in Wolfsburg, Germany.
Mercedes-Benz build an complete self suficiant system in Stutgard Germany in the early 80, The system consisted of a House producing Hydrogen with solar energy, the Hydrogen then supplied the power for the House as well as the Mercedes in the garage.
Mazda had in 2000 on the Frankfurter Auto Messe, displayed a Hydrogen powered car based on a for of powdered Hydrogen.
The Hydrogen engine has been around since the late 18 century, invented in France and build there as well for the first time in that period.
In the early 20 century there was even a Hydrogen race car at le Man in France that out performend Gasoline engine cars. The problem from the begining was to over come the already strong Oil lobby and Man such as Rockefeler did not like Hydrogen at all!
Today BMW is building and selling a Hydrogen Powered car in Germany since it is the only country so far that has Hydrogen Gas stations and those are still scares even there.
Why BMW build a combined Hydrogen/ Gasoline car that can run on both Hydrogen as well as Gasoline, untill more Hydrogen Gas station are build all over Germany and hopefully all over Europe as well!
Bulk for bulk, Hydrogen is the most efficiant and most enviroment friendly energy there is today, however the oil industry can not make money with it since all we need to make Hydrogen is the Sun and Water and all it leaves behind after being burned in an engine is Water.
Why then have we not embraced this energy even though a great aptempt was already made in the late 70. Well, the Oil price went down again and the oil lobby gave Hydrogen a hard time since a Hydrogen powered car is about 15% more at the cash register and we all like to avoid spending more than we need to.
Even though Goverment tax breaks for enviroment friendly car would have solved this problem! Yet we need to finance wars around the world and we do not really seem to care that much about the enviroment after all, or it would have happened all ready, since the market today is consumer driven, even though those consumer are often manipulated By the Lobbyist!
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Most RecentMost Recommended Comments (26)
at 09:22 on June 17th, 2008
Paschen, I like this story. It's good stuff.
at 13:46 on June 17th, 2008
I honestly think that hydrogen cars have missed the boat. Look for electric cars to take over the lead in alternative fuel vehicles.
at 19:31 on June 17th, 2008
eastvanray, I do appreciate your input on this and I do respect your view.
However you seem to fail to see that electricity has to be made as well. May this be from Coal, Oil, Nuclear or Hydrogen it self it has to be produced first by another energy source! If all Car where to be converted to electrical engines, it would be an energy disaster of the great dimentions. We would have to build a Nuclear power plant in every city around the World in order to produce enough power for all those cars as well as all the Households and industry. This in turn would cause us a new problem, what to do with all the highly radiactive and toxic waste and further we would not have enough raw Uranium in the World to keep all those power plants going for to long and would there for trow our self right back into a major energy crisis!
The problem the G8 has with Hydrogen other than the Oil lobby is the fact that the countries that could produce enough Hydrogen to supply every one coast eficiantly are in North Africa, the Middle East, Central America and Australia as well as China, due to there locations near the Oceans and due to there desserts giving lots of room from Solar power and the fact that the sun shines there all Year round. Algeria and Yemen already have Hydrogen plants build by the German and do produce Hydrogen for Germany. Some thing that would be hard to swallow for the USA is to accept having to deal and compromise with those countries again!
at 18:42 on June 17th, 2008
Paschen, I like this story. It's good stuff.
Yes Paschen it is a good question. Eastvanray does not know that the electric cars are running from hydrogen fuel cells that convert hydrogen to electric.
I do not think hydrogen will succeed in colder climate regions because of the membrane problem. Platnium is used to make the chemical conversion but it needs to pass through the special membrane material to be converted for electrical use. The other option is pumping hydrogen gas into a cars very big gas tank. That is a problem because they can not store enough hydrogen in the cars, and that makes the idea of setting up hydrogen filling stations a waste of time and money.
The only possible way it might work is to have a car engine make hydrogen via electrolysis and use it at the same time. It would incorporate some old technology, that some do not want to go back to, and that is the steam engine. It is very possible to make a type of steam hydrogen engine. This way the car runs on the steam pressure as water is being converted to hydrogen. The hydrogen would power a small generator that gives electricity to a microwave that keeps the water hot and its steam form constant inside its water thermos-steam tank. Once the car is warmed up less energy is used and a build up of hydrogen is produced. This extra stored hydrogen is the source of energy that is used to have instant start ups to get the car driving to make more hydrogen from the steam. The water is always recirculated so no water is loss, and no fill ups required. Interesting I think, but would work.
On the other hand hydrogen Steam cars would kill the Maglev Car dream. The only thing going for Maglev is Geothermal Development which would help reduce earthquake activity in countries, and provide a heat on/off for winter months to keep roads clear. Who knows maybe they will do both.
Good talking to you Paschen. Nice that you know all that stuff about hydrogen previously made.
at 20:02 on June 17th, 2008
Thank you for you input on this subject djermano. Yes, Hydrogen did have some storage problems in the past, those have been solved though by Daimler-Benz in the late 80, they did patted it as well. Further Mazda came up with another solution with dry Hydrogen in 2000, they did pated this as well! Germany does produce Hydrogen mainly in North Africa today due to their location to Sea Water and their exposure to the Sun.
In order to replace Oil and Nuclear Power Hydrogen alone will not be able to do it nor would Wind Power, Water, Methane Gas, Bio Diesel or geothermal energy.
We need to stop thinking has we did for the past 100 years that there is one solution for all and every thing. The Earth is diverse in climate as well as geography and we need to adapt to the Earth not the other way around. There are many locations where geothermal would and should be the main energy source and others where Hydrogen would be best, just like some areas of the World are best suited for Wind energy or using Turbines harvesting the energy from the tides.
It is important that we start thinking out side of the box and readdaped to the Earth. We need to stop trying to want the Earth to addaped to us. In China, Japan and other areas of the World Geo-Thermal could be and should be producing at least 80% of the energy needed, there the technology is coast effective. Other parts of the world would be better of producing 50% to 80% of there energy with Wind power or the tides or the sun for it would be more coast effective for them to go another way. Not to speak of the enviromental impact of each technology in it' s specific geographic location. We need to take all factor into concedrations and make the best possible decition there may be in each case.
Geo-Thermal, Hydrogen, Wind mills, Water turbins, Solar as well as Bio-Gas, Bio-Diesel... are all part of our future and need to be implemented every where.
Oil and Nuclear power have to be fazed out ASAP, not only for enviromental reasos, also for polical once as well as economic reasons and Humanitarian one's!
at 16:52 on July 27th, 2008
Actually the electricity I use comes from Hydro-electric dams. No burning of anything involved!
at 09:41 on July 26th, 2008
Paschen, I like this story. It's good stuff. Great post. I spent quite awhile researching hydrogen vehicles and fuel cells last night. This really does seem like a viable alternative to ridding ourselves of our oil problem. Glad to see you bring your knowledge forward.
at 10:17 on July 26th, 2008
Thank you for your comment here and the Flag, I appreciate it! Yes, Hydrogen is most likely the best alternative to Oil as well as Uranium, combined with Solar as well as other Renewable energy source and conservation of energy as well as more energy efficient machine and appliances we may very well be able to solve many Political, environmental and economic problems! Yet we do need a much stronger Political will and legislation as well as laws to make that happen! Only public awareness and pressure can make this happen! There may be our greatest challenge as well as problem, to educate the masses and get those masses to actually care be on their own life time and their own needs and wants!
at 10:38 on July 26th, 2008
Paschen, Hydrogen, the first country changing to this economy was Iceland, having Hy-buses, Hy-fishing boats, Hy-cars...; next South Corea one step ahead planning Hy Independance for Homes and traffic, every home has a fuel cell to heat the home during electricty production. Japan plans to get a leading Hydrogen producer and so on. However this is a change like the first steam engine in England. The first mass produced fuell cell comes from Galway Ireland, it's a little phone charger, I tested 10 of them for LED Lantern lighting, one month light, no heavy batteries. Thanks for your historic Initiative, can count on Solarlife.
at 10:44 on July 26th, 2008
Interesting in deed, you may want to write about that! Thanks for the comment and flag here, I appreciate it! Should you have some links to all this, I would really Appreciate it! Thanks again for all you info here!
at 01:03 on July 27th, 2008
That is great that Iceland and others are making plans for mass conversion or limited trials. I would feel better if the US was taking more steps. Such a big environmental polluter should be near the top of clean energy innovation and promotion. I see the ideas rolling here, but not a lot of action at a large scale.
at 15:47 on July 26th, 2008
Wow Paschen didn't you go on my article about Hydrogen powered cars and report it as "not good stuff" and started to make criticism and insults against my article? You made it look so fishy and made it seem like I deleted peoples comments on my article when in fact I can't moderate peoples comments on my article. And then you turn around and create this article about hydrogen powered cars and throw the facts about BMW and Honda when I was the one who talked about Honda doing this first.
Hydrogen is not an alternative to Oil all cars will need oil, Hydrogen is an additive for hybrid cars. Are you a mechanic? Do you know why cars need oil? Its a lube for the engine, what happens if you turn on a car with no oil in the engine, it blows up cause theres nothing to lube it. There is no way hydrogen will replace oil in engines. But, there is however a way to use hydrogen to increase gas mileage. If you use water or hydrogen or HHO or anything such in an engine instead of oil, it will cause corrosion, and what happens in winter time? What happens to the gaskets get rusted out? You cant put anti freeze into an engine, it belongs in the radiator. Sure, Im not an expert engineer but I work on my own car with blood, sweat, and tears.
And my article was pretty straight forward and you had to bash the heck out of it and then turn around and become a hypocrite and make such a similar article about hydrogen powered cars. And in fact you ruined my article cause every viewer can see the stuff you wrote without given the idea a chance. So thanks to you and people similar to you, people won't even give hydrogen technology a chance because of the critics like you who don't put logic behind it. And its funny how when you finally realize the truth you're here given the thumbs up on something you gave thumbs down just 4 weeks ago. Not cool at all. Glad you opened your eyes but Im upset you knocked my article and turned around and praise the same stuff I've been preaching about for months.
at 05:42 on July 27th, 2008
Hi Kakarotoni, you try really everything in your garage, I would trust you to repair any car. However your comment "Do you know why cars need oil? Its a lube for the engine, what happens if you turn on a car with no oil in the engine, it blows up cause theres nothing to lube it. There is no way hydrogen will replace oil in engines", here you can turn into a "electronic genius". A hydrogen fuel cell has no moving parts, so for sure needs no oil, the fuel cell electricity powers over DC/ac Inverter the electric brushless asynchron motor, again no oil necessary. If you are the first to check this new car type, more a computer like knowledge would bring you in big business at NY. One day you hit the jackpot you make your own invention. Good luck, I am in a new york state of mind, I go downtown, I want it today....that's what drives America.
at 15:51 on July 26th, 2008
And another thing is everyone wanted to use hydrogen power as a "steam engine" like they did when trains were invented then everyone would have to invest $30,000 dollars for a new car from honda, bmw, or gm. Because there is no way logically you can do an engine swap from an oil engine to a steamed power engine into any normal car that was specifically designed to run with oil in its engine. So everyone should start saving up their pennies.
at 20:39 on July 26th, 2008
Thank you for dropping in, you may want to reread my comments on your post!
I said that Hydrogen is a proven technology and that we know that it does work, yet that what you are proposing I have not seen work so far and I did ask you do come up with more evidence and studies to that effect. Now I have not looked at your latest endless update, but so far you have not been able to come up with plausible data!
And defamation will not help you either in getting others to accept your Idea! Be well!
at 19:53 on September 30th, 2008
Do you know how to make steam? It takes a combustible fuel, such as coal, oil, Petrol to burn in order to heat the Water to boil and compress the steam with high pressure tanks.
It has nothing to do with Hydrogen though even if water is the base element.
at 21:33 on July 26th, 2008
What is your idea of plausible data? Like proof as real life videos, articles, proven this and proven that its already on there. You want stuff like blue prints, data, a/f ratio diagrams, in a sense you want data that only a chemist, scientist, and an engineer would only be able to read besides normal everyday audience that you see on now public. Is that right? I thought so. When you explain something to an audience on how it works you have to be very vague and give them the big picture of it rather then brake down into specific chemical details thats just going to confuse normal people and turn them off. Makes sense? My never endless update will probably keep running considering I'm on googles top 5 spots for the search terms and got about 30,000 views since may 4th. In a sense you want me, to buy a 500 dollar video camera, record me with the hood of my car open with the engine and the hydrogen kit installed, probably flash my drivers license and SS card to "prove" its me. Cause who knows you might even accuse me of a fake video. I'm pretty certain your stretching the limits of what you refer as plausible data.
So you knocked my article which is very similar to yours because I did not have plausible data but yet your preaching and praising about the same technology and you carry absolutely no plausible data what so ever. You're just saying "hey hydrogen technology is good" and going into the history of it rather then explaining how "old technology" is evolving into another advancing state of technology. Its like inventing the light bulb then inventing the tv. Just an advanced replica of the original. I still can't believe how contradicting you are.
at 00:36 on July 27th, 2008
Data, would be Scientific Material approved and tested by an institution or Internationally respected lab confirming the findings and that does can be repeated and are not a one time fluke or a claim without foundation! I did already asked you all that in comments to your Post! Just anther the questions and come up with the data! Simple really! Any Engineer or Scientist has to do so, no one can just make claims without solid data! Look, I do wish you well and even would like to believe you, yet you need to provide something substantial and Scientifically sound! That is all!
at 15:49 on July 28th, 2008
Sorry but I did not invent hydrogen kits for vehicles, I found it. And put the word out, just the same thing you are doing. I was correct when I said you ask that I provide scientific proof, data that normal people who not understand and get confused and run away thinking its too complicated to perform. I am no scientist or engineer however I am a firm believer in things that I find to be true. And I do not stand by anything that has no proof or evidence behind it. And here you are preaching about the same thing with no scientific data. Isn't that obscured?
at 22:01 on July 31st, 2008
Just add the right link! To the research or Data! The Source here are Such as VW and others easely fun on the internet and in any University Library!
at 22:44 on July 31st, 2008
Hi kakarotoni, thanks for not inventing hydrogen kits for vehicles, you would not be able to do it with google ranking, there you need profound international team work, no alpha dominating. Your comment "I am no scientist or engineer however I am a firm believer" it's O.K. We are just getting new reader's of the ROW, imagine they have a other education and can read this articles without problems. Your popular Garagefactory style is also a important tool, brought HP to mass production. Think over the horizon presenting your opinion as the only true one; that never works. Send us a test report of your HHO fuel improver, I will explain it together with you, to get the magic popular.
at 06:41 on August 21st, 2008
The dream of hydrogen fuel replacing gasoline may come true in the next few years. I plan to support it.
at 19:55 on September 30th, 2008
Thank you for the visit A. Lynch, I glad to hear you will support it, thank you in deed.
at 10:11 on September 30th, 2008
Paschen, I like this story. It's good stuff. This was in the Indian papers this last week:
Source: hindu.com
at 19:47 on September 30th, 2008
Thank you for the read, comment and flag here Lutus Flower, Yes, it is good news and a great technology to embrace. Sadly most countries are rather slow jumping on the ban wagon. BMW and VW as well as MAZDA have big plans and Mercedes announced two month ago that by 2015 it will no longer produce Gasoline powered cars or truck and embark on Hydrogen for the hole fleet. Thanks again.
at 19:13 on January 11th, 2009
How about a hydrogen burning steam turbine powering a generator(constant high rpm) to charge batteries/drive electric motor with resonant electrolysis providing at least some of the hydrogen and regen breaking, etc? Just a thought...