How The Latino Left Lost The Immigration Debate

thanks gryphon being of Cuban Heritage i find censoring by any means or forum repugnant and very dissapionted that a site like Hispanic BusinessForum has censors. its like i'm back in cuba.

I agree with what you wrote , Less arrogance and less mexican flags would

have gone a long way in helping their cause.

Just so you know , you will never win in the hb forums , Those

radical reconquistas want this country to turn into mexico,

Oscar is a firm believer in reconquista and feels mexico should format violent

revolution to retake the country starting with the southwest. You will never win an

argument in there using logic. They have chased away many good people , If you don't

toe their line , you will be banned.  

It's simple math.  There are two parties, and the Republicans allow racist White Conservatives to pass racist legislation through their party. I'm not saying all of them are racist... but in my experience, many who call themselves "conservative" are less sensitive and more resentful than average. Democrats discourage this behavior, even among their own Southern racists, who are dwindling in numbers because these whites have switched to the Republicans.  (Basically, back in the early 20th century, the political racists/anti-integrationists used to be split across the parties, by region, but today, they're all in the Republican Party.  Today, the progressives in the Republican Party have no power except in some Northeast states and a few Western locales.)

Every few years, there's a surge of anti-immigrant hysteria.  Maybe it's against Mexicans; maybe it's against Arabs.  Whatever the case, the situation gets polarized.  People experience this, and figure out the pattern.  When this hysteria rolls around, it causes the targeted groups to ally with Democrats.

Back before 9/11, most Arab Americans voted for Republicans and Bush.  It was something like 75% GOP.  After Arab Americans started getting rounded up, and the Democrats were (just barely) defending civil liberties, a lot of the targeted people switched sides.

Back before this current anti-immigrant hysteria, I'd guesstimate that 60% of immigrants from Mexico favored conservatives, because of the gays and abortion issues - many are involved in churches.  Today, I'd be surprised if more than 30% would support Republicans.  I'd be surprised if more than 10% are! 

Mexican Americans, who are a different group, tend to be more liberal, partly because they experience more racism over their lifetimes (not having grown up in Mexico), but mainly because they are working class or "lower middle class" (aka, working class).  Everyone whose in this economic group tends to vote Democrat (unless they're refugees from Communist countries), just like everyone of any race.  But, the wealthier Mexican Americans are shifting more Democrat, too, because of all the turmoil that this anti-immigrant hysteria is causing people to get racist against all Latinos.

In fact, I have noticed even Cubans starting to change their attitude toward Democrats.  Over time, this trend will increase.  It doesn't matter how much money you have -- it sucks being caught up in racial hate.

Over time, people of color go Democrat.  Even the Republicans start voting for specific Democrat candidates and supporting specific laws.  You can't unlearn the bad experiences, and you have to vote your interests.

Oh yeah, one other thing, there are mutiple "Latino Left"s.  There are a lot who are basically leftists who are into international solidarity between workers, and form one group.  They disliked Alberto Gonz before he was appointed, because he's a capitalist toad and a friend of Bush.  There is another "Latino Left" who are nationalists, and are really kind of conservative -- they may have liked Alberto Gonz early on, but now do not.  This nationalist faction is split between a more left-leaning side that is critical of Catholicism and its rape and colonization of the Americas, and another side that still hews to the Catholic church somewhat and even tolerates some anti-Semitism.  These groups have always disagreed with each other, but have become united due to the current anti-Mexican hysteria.

Then, there are the "sell outs".  They are even split.  There are the moderates who hope that laying low and going along with the program will let the wave of hatred pass, and not affect them.  There are the hardcore "friends of whites" who actually work with the anti-immigrant groups to further their agenda.

You see these ideological splits in every group that goes into racial politics.

You make classic error of labeling us as "racist" or anti immigrant.

You are wrong , we are anti massive ILLEGAL immigration from primarily one area of the world.

Some how this gets translated into "anti immigrant" or "anti mexican"

From my point of view after seeing people march in the streets of my country with foreign flags , I've

got to admit , I was pretty pissed .

some of the most racist people against Latinos are Black they refer to us as chicos. And how many latinos did Clinton appoint to positions of power and don't start me on

Sen. KKK byrd

thanks for the info USA

Do you feel that Latinos should be assimulating into US culture ? Or do you feel that the US

should accomadate Latinos?

Its impossible to ask these questions on the HB without getting called names.

After following your posts on HB I feel you are someone that can debate the issue without going nuts like they do.

I feel that every legal citizen from anywhere should have equal oppertunities here but I'm dead set against anything

for illegals , for many reasons ,  

I'm not talking about all conservatives.  I'm talking about the ones who are really racists, who say negative things about Mexicans.  They say things like "Mexicans are turning this state into a cesspool."  The GOP allows these groups to influence the debate.

Also, I have personal experience, and basically, the GOP is more tolerant of racist attitudes. Racists make up a minority, but it's still there.  Democrats are less tolerante of the attitudes; even they have racists, but, they aren't as encouraged.  Here's a good example: my friend is a kind-of racist Democrat (and white, though that doesn't matter).  When he makes his jokes, the rest of his old friends, who range from leftists like me, to moderate liberals, don't laugh.  In contrast, one of my Republican friends (an Asian, though it doesn't matter), who is not a racist, says all kinds of racial stuff about different groups.  Nothing really mean, but just negative stereotypes about groups.

My father was a Republican by the way.

I'm a moderate leftist.  Socially conservative in many ways, but economically very "left."

i'm holding my own I think they started calling me a Self Hating Latino after my first post. then they pulled the article

gmony

   I did a bit of digging , Do you gave a website involved in music?

I 've been a pro musician here in Vegas for 30 years

yes i have a studio in miami

these guys at HB ares tarting to use bully tactics and i'm starting to drive them a little crazy since i do not take the bait.

See... even the "business" chamber-of-commerce types are turning against this anti-immigrant hysteria.  These are the kind of people who raised money for Reagan and Bush 1.

In the old days the moderators could ban you , now they can't , it has to be administration,

They will keep on harrassing you though , the rules only work one way there , If you don't toe the line

you get slashed.  

I have been contracted to do a story on the tactics at HB by BillboardLatino.com I would like to get your observaions usa

gmony

  A couple years ago I went in there to debate with them on the immigration issues ,

At that time there was another moderator "Jamie Dakis" , everything was "viva la raza" "screw America" , "reconquista" 

For a while I tried to be respectful but you wouldn't believe how bad you get dumped on if you don't toe the "company" line,

Well , maybe you would ,

I've seen many people come and go in that forum , Sure , there were troublemakers and real racists that just hated

Latinos , But there were many people including several Latinos that didn't agree with their open borders reconquista

program , of course they all got called vendittos(sp) and coconuts , If you check the threads you will find tons of them

pertaining to "rednecks" "racists" , nazis and worse.

Any opposing views are dumped on in there ,

Most of them are of the belief that this country was stolen from Mexico and should be returned to Mexico

Oscar is a big time believer in reconquista and non assimulation.

I belong to several boards that have Latino members , we do discuss the cultures , the problems with illegal and

to much immigration , We don't always agree but for the most part the dialoge is civil and not a communistic

desplay like on the HB

They pull that crap and they wonder why people are getting down on Latinos