Gun Control Zealots Await Democrat Victory

by joellerose | October 14, 2007 at 10:19 am
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Gun Control Zealots Await Democrat Victory

Gun Control Zealots Await Democrat Victory

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This week’s school shooting in Cleveland has again raised the illogical cry to take guns away from legal owners because a disturbed youth wielding illegal guns has done something crazy. One of the stupidest aspects of liberal philosophy (and one of Mayor Giuliani’s main handicaps) is the belief that our Founding Fathers made a mistake in enshrining in our Constitution the right of individuals to bear arms.

They intend to come at us again if they gain the White House and retain control of the Congress, conveniently ignoring all of the data that shows: 1. when states changed their laws to allow law-abiding citizens to have carry permits, gun crimes and violent crimes have gone down significantly, and, 2. the number of gun crimes and gun accidents involving permit owners is miniscule.

Some intelligent insights from a British observer (from a country where guns are banned, and violent crime is escalating):

Wouldn’t you feel safer with a gun?
British attitudes are supercilious and misguided

Richard Munday, September 8, 2007, From The Times (Excerpt)

“Despite the recent spate of shootings on our streets, we pride ourselves on our strict gun laws. Every time an American gunman goes on a killing spree, we shake our heads in righteous disbelief at our poor benighted colonial cousins. Why is it, even after the Virginia Tech massacre, that Americans still resist calls for more gun controls?

The short answer is that “gun controls” do not work: they are indeed generally perverse in their effects. Virginia Tech, where 32 students were shot in April, had a strict gun ban policy and only last year successfully resisted a legal challenge that would have allowed the carrying of licensed defensive weapons on campus. It is with a measure of bitter irony that we recall Thomas Jefferson, founder of the University of Virginia, recording the words of Cesare Beccaria: “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

One might contrast the Virginia Tech massacre with the assault on Virginia’s Appalachian Law School in 2002, where three lives were lost before a student fetched a pistol from his car and apprehended the gunman.

Virginia Tech reinforced the lesson that gun controls are obeyed only by the law-abiding. New York has “banned” pistols since 1911, and its fellow murder capitals, Washington DC and Chicago, have similar bans. One can draw a map of the US, showing the inverse relationship of the strictness of its gun laws, and levels of violence: all the way down to Vermont, with no gun laws at all, and the lowest level of armed violence (one thirteenth that of Britain).

America’s disenchantment with “gun control” is based on experience: whereas in the 1960s and 1970s armed crime rose in the face of more restrictive gun laws (in much of the US, it was illegal to possess a firearm away from the home or workplace), over the past 20 years all violent crime has dropped dramatically, in lockstep with the spread of laws allowing the carrying of concealed weapons by law-abiding citizens. Florida set this trend in 1987, and within five years the states that had followed its example showed an 8 per cent reduction in murders, 7 per cent reduction in aggravated assaults, and 5 per cent reduction in rapes. Today 40 states have such laws, and by 2004 the US Bureau of Justice reported that “firearms-related crime has plummeted”.”
Richard Munday
********************************

A liberal's lament: The NRA might be right after all
By Jonathan Turley, October 10, 2007, USAToday (Excerpt)

“Like many academics, I was happy to blissfully ignore the Second Amendment. It did not fit neatly into my socially liberal agenda. Yet, two related cases could now force liberals into a crisis of conscience. The Supreme Court is expected to accept review of District of Columbia v. Heller and Parker v. District of Columbia, involving constitutional challenges to the gun-control laws in Washington.

The D.C. law effectively bars the ownership of handguns for most citizens and places restrictions on other firearms. The District's decision to file these appeals after losing in the D.C. appellate court was driven more by political than legal priorities. By taking the appeal, D.C. politicians have put gun-control laws across the country at risk with a court more likely to uphold the rulings than to reverse them. It has also put the rest of us in the uncomfortable position of giving the right to gun ownership the same fair reading as more favored rights of free press or free speech.

The Framers' intent
Principle is a terrible thing, because it demands not what is convenient but what is right. It is hard to read the Second Amendment and not honestly conclude that the Framers intended gun ownership to be an individual right. It is true that the amendment begins with a reference to militias: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Accordingly, it is argued, this amendment protects the right of the militia to bear arms, not the individual.

Yet, if true, the Second Amendment would be effectively declared a defunct provision. The National Guard is not a true militia in the sense of the Second Amendment and, since the District and others believe governments can ban guns entirely, the Second Amendment would be read out of existence.

Another individual right
More important, the mere reference to a purpose of the Second Amendment does not alter the fact that an individual right is created. The right of the people to keep and bear arms is stated in the same way as the right to free speech or free press. The statement of a purpose was intended to reaffirm the power of the states and the people against the central government. At the time, many feared the federal government and its national army. Gun ownership was viewed as a deterrent against abuse by the government, which would be less likely to mess with a well-armed populace.

Considering the Framers and their own traditions of hunting and self-defense, it is clear that they would have viewed such ownership as an individual right — consistent with the plain meaning of the amendment.

None of this is easy for someone raised to believe that the Second Amendment was the dividing line between the enlightenment and the dark ages of American culture. Yet, it is time to honestly reconsider this amendment and admit that ... here's the really hard part ... the NRA may have been right. This does not mean that Charlton Heston is the new Rosa Parks or that no restrictions can be placed on gun ownership. But it does appear that gun ownership was made a protected right by the Framers and, while we might not celebrate it, it is time that we recognize it.”

Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University and a member of USA TODAY's board of contributors.


I have held a concealed-carry permit since 1969 and in two states.  In both states my background was examined to ensure I had no criminal or mental illness background and that no TRO orders were outstanding against me.  In one state I also had to demonstrate marksmanship; in both states I had to demonstrate proficiency and knowledge of gun laws.  Fortunately, in all that time I have never had to use or even show a weapon, but I am usually ready to do so if the situation warrents.


From Sea to Shining Sea

recommend This comment thread is now closed
gryphon
gryphon
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 11:16 on October 15th, 2007

joellerose, I like this story. It's good stuff.

Kaitlin
Kaitlin
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 13:28 on October 15th, 2007

joellerose, thank you for posting this...you've drawn on good sources and used your own experiences to create a full and interesting picture. Thank you for being so thorough and for showing your bias. Great stuff.

0
dysamoria

may i ask what situation might arise where you would need to make use of your conceiled firearm?

i admit that i sometimes fancy the idea of powerful protection that a firearm might provide, as i am someone who has been assaulted many times (mostly psychologically and as a target for bullying). But i also know that the mere presence of the weapon makes a situation's potential risk factors climb frighteningly. i DO agree that a person is easier to attack when unarmed. i just don't think our weapons are controllable enough for everyone to be carrying one who can get the permit. i would be first in line for a non-lethal sidearm permit that had the effect of stopping an assault without the risk of death of ANY person.

Also, can you please cite your sources for the statement about "the number of ... gun accidents involving permit owners is miniscule." i try not to go nuts over the gun ownership situation unless someone else does (and you didn't), but i would like some citation on that one specifically because my memory tells me that most stories of "gun accidents" are involving permit owners (such as the recent "hunting accident" one of our government "leaders" was involved with), an owner's child(ren), friends and friends of their child(ren). i'm not here to pick a fight. i respect both sides of the argument about possessing a firearm for self protection, but i have to side with those who say that there are far more gun-related crimes in societies that allow the legal ownership of firearms (because they are most often stolen from legal owners, acquired illegally through the abuse of legal systems) compared to a place where they are ALWAYS illegal.

Two more points: i found the formatting of your article difficult to follow (as a person who publishes stuff here, i KNOW the formatting is hard to manage because the forms suck).

Lastly, you might want to check on the length of your excerpts, just to be sure neither of your news sources have the ability to knock on your door for theft.

As i said, i'm not picking a fight. i've been one of those fearful citizens who sometimes wished he had a ranged weapon. Even moreso, i would like to have an automatic ranged weapon if i'm ever facing a charging bear on a nature walk. But i really would prefer something from out of science fiction (or science, if the military felt more inclined to put more money into non-lethal anti-personnell technology instead of continuing to rely on the old lead slug throwers). And yes, i've seen how wonderfully the film "Inner Space" made fun of taser guns.

"No, no, don't shoot him. You'll only make him angry."  - Blazing Saddles

0
joellerose

You cover a lot of points, and I may have to come back later for some.  1. Attempted car-jacking is an example of where a carry permit would be useful.  I got my first permit when I first started a restaurant chain and often carried the days' receipts to the night deposit box.  There were incidents with others, but fortunately I had none.  2.  Hunters do not normally need carry permits of the kind I discussed here.  A couple of years ago I came across studies done in Florida and Utah that showed carry permit holders there committed significantly less gun crimes and suffered significantly less gun accidents than the general population.  I would have to research the source.  I do not have it handy.

0
joellerose

Additionally, this may help with some of your concerns:

Gun Facts



By MORGAN 0. REYNOLDS & H. STERLING BURNETT


Nationally, gun-rights advocates have been on the defensive since the early '90s. But in the states, where the fight against crime is won or lost, they're winning the debate. That's because they have the facts on their side.


Thirty-one states now let citizens carry concealed weapons -- up from just nine states in '86. Have these "right-to-carry" laws made the public safer, or have they caused a sharp drop in public safety, as opponents warned?


The standard argument against "concealed carry" laws is that there is no good reason for the average Joe to carry a gun. But federal courts have ruled that police aren t obliged to protect individuals from crime. That means citizens are ultimately responsible for their own defense.


But do concealed weapons deter crime? Criminals commit 10 million violent crimes a year. Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck found that victims use handguns about 1.9 million times in self-defense.


Criminals weigh the costs of the crime against the benefits. You don t have to be a criminal mastermind to know that the possibility of a concealed weapon tilts the odds in the victim's favor. Research shows that robbery and rape victims who resist with a gun are only half as likely to be injured as those who don't.


A recent study by John Lott and David Mustard of the University of Chicago published in the Journal of Legal Studies bears this out. They found that concealed handgun laws reduced murder by 8.5% and severe assault by 7% from 1977 to '92. Had "right-to-carry" laws been in effect throughout the country, there would have been 1,600 fewer murders and 60,000 fewer assaults every year.


Vermont has long had the least restrictive firearms-carry laws. Citizens there can carry guns either openly or concealed without any permit. Perhaps in part because of its liberal gun policies, Vermont has among the lowest violent crime numbers in the country.


In 1980, when murders and robberies in the U.S. had soared to 10 and 251 per 100,000 people, respectively, Vermont's murder rate was 22% of the national average and its robbery rate was 15%.


In 1996, Vermont s crime rates were among the lowest in the country: 25% of the national murder rate, 8% of the national robbery rate.


Another objection to concealed-carry laws is that they'll boost impulse killings -- fostering a "wild West" mentality with more shootings and deaths as people vent their anger with pistols instead of fists. Yet FBI data show that killings stemming from arguments are falling as a share of all homicides.


In fact, concealed-weapon permit holders are involved in fewer incidents than off-duty police officers.


Consider also:


Dade County, Fla., kept detailed records for six years. Of 21,000 carry permit holders, there was no reported incident of a permit holder injuring an innocent person.


Virginia issued more than 50,000 permits since it passed a right-to-carry law in '95. In that time, not one permit holder has been convicted of a crime, and violent crime has dropped.


Opponents are left to argue that concealed-carry laws will put guns in untrained hands and accidents will go up.


But there has been no rise in accidental shootings in counties with right-to-carry laws. Nationwide, there are about 1,400 accidental firearms deaths annually -- a figure far lower than the number of deaths blamed on medical errors or car accidents.


And data show that civilians are even more careful with firearms than police officers are. There are only about 30 mistaken civilian shootings in the U.S. each year. The police commit more than three times as many mistaken killings as civilians.


In fact, the death rate from firearms has dropped in the last 20 years even as gun ownership has more than doubled and 22 states have passed right-to-carry laws.


The fatal firearm accident rate has dropped more than 19% in the last decade, and the number of gun-related accidents among children fell to an all-time low of 185 in '94 -- down 64% since '75.


Keeping honest, law-abiding people unarmed and at the mercy of armed and violent criminals was never a good idea. In the gun policy debate, gun-rights advocates can argue honestly that a general concealed-carry law is sound public policy.


Morgan 0. Reynolds is director of the National Center for Policy Analysis Criminal Justice Center and an economics professor at Texas A&M University. H. Sterling Burnett is a policy analyst for the National Center for Policy Analysis.


http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Amend/gun_facts.htm

PEP
PEP
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 05:37 on October 16th, 2007

joellerose, great stuff.

To chime in on the conversation a bit, most problems with gun usage come with (no surprise) non-registered or illegal types of guns. Drugs, too much alcohol, guns, when in the hands of the criminally-minded, tend to be used outside the law.

Home invasion is a time when having a gun and knowing how to use it can make a big difference. One thing people don't understand is that, as JoelleRose points out, going through training and practicing with the weapon gives one a sense of self-confidence and the practiced ability to analyze a situation and choose options.

Dysamoria, re: copying full articles, best to contact staff with your concerns. I'm a copyright advocate; however, I've very often seen full copies marked as "Good Stuff" by staff, so you might do best to check with them for their interpretations.

The old saying of "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" is a true one. Prohibition in the U.S. didn't work. Drunk driving laws don't work, either.

If you wish to outlaw something truly dangerous, outlaw cars. People drive drunk, on drugs, medicated, poorly, too fast, you name it. A car is simply a guided missile with explosives on board; it will explode and burn.

Focusing on stiffer sentences for felons found with guns isn't a bad idea.

Given our porous borders, our cars (easy transport and moving around), and our freedom to come and go across this land, it is impossible to stop guns getting to the hands of criminals. What is possible, and what the anti-gun lobbies are after, is to stop guns legally getting into the hands of the law-abiding citizens and potential victims who could then defend themselves. 

0
gryphon

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm


the link above shows great statistics on gun ownership polls.  Anyway as of this month, 42% owned a gun in the United States.  42% of Americans also support concealed weapon permits.

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