Better Numbers

by joellerose | October 17, 2007 at 10:27 am | 519 views | 16 comments

The evidence of a drop in violence in Iraq is becoming hard to dispute.

Sunday, October 14, 2007; Washington Post

NEWS COVERAGE and debate about Iraq during the past couple of weeks have centered on the alleged abuses of private security firms like Blackwater USA. Getting such firms into a legal regime is vital, as we've said. But meanwhile, some seemingly important facts about the main subject of discussion last month -- whether there has been a decrease in violence in Iraq -- have gotten relatively little attention. A congressional study and several news stories in September questioned reports by the U.S. military that casualties were down. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), challenging the testimony of Gen. David H. Petraeus, asserted that "civilian deaths have risen" during this year's surge of American forces.

A month later, there isn't much room for such debate, at least about the latest figures. In September, Iraqi civilian deaths were down 52 percent from August and 77 percent from September 2006, according to the Web site icasualties.org. The Iraqi Health Ministry and the Associated Press reported similar results. U.S. soldiers killed in action numbered 43 -- down 43 percent from August and 64 percent from May, which had the highest monthly figure so far this year. The American combat death total was the lowest since July 2006 and was one of the five lowest monthly counts since the insurgency in Iraq took off in April 2004.

During the first 12 days of October the death rates of Iraqis and Americans fell still further. So far during the Muslim month of Ramadan, which began Sept. 13 and ends this weekend, 36 U.S. soldiers have been reported as killed in hostile actions. That is remarkable given that the surge has deployed more American troops in more dangerous places and that in the past al-Qaeda has staged major offensives during Ramadan. Last year, at least 97 American troops died in combat during Ramadan. Al-Qaeda tried to step up attacks this year, U.S. commanders say -- so far, with stunningly little success.

The trend could change quickly and tragically, of course. Casualties have dropped in the past for a few weeks only to spike again. There are, however, plausible reasons for a decrease in violence. Sunni tribes in Anbar province that once fueled the insurgency have switched sides and declared war on al-Qaeda. The radical Shiite leader Moqtada al-Sadr ordered a cease-fire last month by his Mahdi Army. Lt. Gen. Raymond T. Odierno, the top day-to-day commander in Iraq, says al-Qaeda's sanctuaries have been reduced 60 to 70 percent by the surge.

This doesn't necessarily mean the war is being won. U.S. military commanders have said that no reduction in violence will be sustainable unless Iraqis reach political solutions -- and there has been little progress on that front. Nevertheless, it's looking more and more as though those in and outside of Congress who last month were assailing Gen. Petraeus's credibility and insisting that there was no letup in Iraq's bloodshed were -- to put it simply -- wrong.


Editorial Note: Notice that the source of this information is the Washington Post, a major newspaper and one of the most liberal, anti-war newspapers in the nation.

Add a comment Comments (16)

moonwolf

Drop in violence hard to dispute?  I don't think so!  Just another Bush PR lie.

From Reuters October 16th: 

* MOSUL - A suicide truck bomb targeting a police station killed four
policemen, a woman and wounded 80 people in the northern city of Mosul,
390 km (240 miles) north of Baghdad, police said.

BAGHDAD - A
car bomb targeting an army patrol on Sa'adoun Street in central Baghdad
killed three soldiers and three civilians. Five soldiers and 20
civilians were wounded in the attack, police said.

NEAR FALLUJA
- Gunmen killed tribal leader Sheikh Saleh Fezea Shneitar along with
his son and nephew in a village just west of Baghdad, police said. The
tribal leader was a member of the Sunni Arab "Anbar Awakenings Council"
fighting al Qaeda in the western province of Anbar. *

BAGHDAD - A roadside bomb in the central Baghdad district of Karrada killed one civilian and wounded two, police said.

BAGHDAD - Six mortar rounds killed one civilian and wounded 13 in the
southern Doura district of Baghdad on Monday evening, the U.S. military
said.

BAGHDAD - Gunmen attacked a police checkpoint, killing
three policemen and wounding two others in Zayouna district in eastern
Baghdad, police said.

BAGHDAD - Five bodies were found on Monday in different districts in Baghdad, police said.
KIRKUK - A body with gunshot wounds and signs of torture was found in
northern Kirkuk, 250 km (155 miles) north of Baghdad, police said. *

ABBASI - Police said they had found a decapitated body in the town of Abbasi, 70 km (45 miles) southwest of Kirkuk. *

ABBASI - A roadside bomb killed two militants as they tried to plant the device in Abbasi, police said. *

KIRKUK - A roadside bomb wounded two truck drivers in northern Kirkuk, police said.

And here's some more info about 2007, the second most deadly year for Iraqi civilians since the protracted slaughter began, surpassed only by 2006, so far. 

 

joellerose

Any fact or data that disrupts a liberal's world view is immediately attacked.  The Washington Post is not a mouthpiece of the Bush Administration.

moonwolf

The ony facts are the ones I presented above.  This story shows nothing but statistics of civilian casualties.  Statistics are not facts but analysis and we all know statistics are often manipulated to sway public opinion.  Do you dispute this contention regarding statistics or the factual nature of the events I posted?

Finally, applying logic to your next statement:

"The Washington Post is not a mouthpiece of the Bush Administration"  Let's look at the inferences in this statement within the context of this discussion.

Does that then imply that because they are not inherently supporters of the Bush Administration that we can accept what they say is the truth?  If that is so then the obvious corrollary would be that news organizations who do support the Bush Administration cannot be believed.  Is that your suggestion?

As to the numbers of service members killed in action, we also know that those numbers are artificially low due to the way they are tracked.  Men mortally injured on the battlefield who are evacuated and then die, and those that die from their injuries, or complications of their injuries later are not counted in these numbers as everyone who follows these matters knows.


gryphon
good stuff:

joellerose, I like this story. It's good stuff.

juan114

al-Qaeda is being destroyed in Iraq and there will be violence in Iraq for some time, much of it is tribal or criminal.
There are some who's hearts will break if the U.S. prevails. I can just see someone scouring the net looking for bad news and casualties to make a political point excited when they find a new barbaric act.Instead of being proud of the great and brave Americans fighting the evil that has infected Iraq. Posting the atrocity just encourages more atrocity. If Iraqis want freedom they will have to endure what is happening now as long as there are barbarians who wish to destroy Iraq. The world should look at the brave Americans in Iraq with respect instead of contempt because God forbid their countries are attacked by those who wish them harm the first people they will cry to are these same Americans who will bravely go and give up their lives for people who wouldn't even sacrifice a hang nail for their own country. A lot of cowards sitting behind keyboards complaining and hoping for those who defend freedom to lose. Who are the real losers.

moonwolf

Going to the first story on Reuters is "scouring the net'?

The only evil that has infected Iraq is the USA, and it is America that fields barbarians and no one else, and there are obviously many incredibly deluded individuals sitting behind keyboards.

Some don't even know which identity they are.

Isn't that so gmony?  Oh sorry....it's juan today is it? 

crissy333

Comparing American Soldiers to barbarians is very disturbing and gmony is a good person who should be left out of the conversation.

moonwolf

It should be very disturbing for Americans. 

What would you call Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, and the destruction of Fallujah if not barbarian?

You need to understand that barbarian is exactly how most of the rest of the globe sees the USA.

If the shoe fits, wear it. 

René

The LINK says Reuters but the link is not Reuters, moonwolf.

Remember when one finger points, three more point back at you. 

crissy333
good stuff:

joellerose, I like this story. It's good stuff. well said Juan114

mpress
good stuff:

joellerose, . Good stuff. Good news from there has been hard to find.

moonwolf

It is always getting "better" in the spin machine that passes for a legitimate government in the USA.  Problem is it never really does.

Remember "Mission Accomplished"?

We'll see how much "better" it is a month from now, won't we.

Kaitlin

I would like to remind NowPublic members that inflammatory or abusive
speech in comments is considered Flaming and will be construed as a
violation our Flaming Policy and/or our Terms of Service.
Users found to violate these terms risk losing their site privileges.
Please refer to the above links for more information. Thank you.

Christopher Byrne

Thank you Kaitlin.

joellerose

As violence falls in Iraq, cemetery workers feel the pinch

By Jay Price and Qasim Zein, McClatchy Newspapers Tue Oct 16, 2:40 PM ET (Excerpt)


NAJAF, Iraq — "At what's believed to be the world's largest cemetery, where Shiite Muslims aspire to be buried and millions already have been, business isn't good.


A drop in violence around Iraq has cut burials in the huge Wadi al Salam cemetery here by at least one-third in the past six months, and that's cut the pay of thousands of workers who make their living digging graves, washing corpses or selling burial shrouds."

BigT
good stuff:

joellerose, good stuff.

I just hope that outside forces with whatever motivation they might have don't work to overturn the progress that is being made in Iraq. 

Sign In or Join Add a comment

Your email is kept private and will not be shown publicly.

October 17, 2007 at 10:27 am by joellerose, 519 views, 16 comments

Crowd Power

gryphon
First Flagged at 12:54 PM, Oct 17, 2007 by gryphon
These members have powered this story:
 

is reporting from

closeSign in to NowPublic