WWIII

by BigT | October 17, 2007 at 11:11 pm
1025 views | 10 Recommendations | 28 comments

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WWIII

WWIII

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No, bombs haven’t started bombarding Iranian nuclear sites but if that does happen we have a name for it: WWIII. At least that is what President Bush would call it.

President George W. Bush said Wednesday that he thought
Russia still wanted to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. But
stepping up his own rhetoric, the president warned that for Tehran to
possess such a weapon raised the risk of a “World War III.”

That comment, made during a 45-minute news conference, came as
reporters probed for the president’s reaction to a warning Tuesday by
President Vladimir Putin of Russia against any military strikes on Iran
to halt the nuclear work it has continued in defiance of much of the
world. Iran says the program is purely peaceful.

“If Iran had a nuclear weapon, it’d be a dangerous threat to world
peace,” Bush said. “So I told people that if you’re interested in
avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested” in
ensuring Iran not gain the capacity to develop such weapons.

“I take the threat of Iran with a nuclear weapon very seriously,” he said.

The United States has said it is pursuing a diplomatic approach to
Iran, including the threat of a new round of United Nations sanctions,
but has refused to rule out military action to halt Iran’s nuclear
program, which it believes might be used covertly to develop nuclear
weapons.

But in Tehran on Tuesday, Putin said, “Not only should we reject the
use of force, but also the mention of force as a possibility.”

Asked Wednesday about photos that showed a seemingly cordial meeting
in Tehran between Putin and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Bush said he
was loath to read too much into photographs and wanted to hear Putin’s
own “readout” of the meeting.

The thing that causes the most alarm for me is that President Bush
still insists on trusting the Dark Lord of Communism. This is the guy
who is orchestrating a bloodless coup in his country and is backing
Ahmadinejad in his nuclear ambitions.

The Dark Lord and the Sith.

I have not looked into Putin’s eyes like President Bush has so I
cannot say how dreamy they are but I have paid attention to the
politics of the region. Putin and the other not-so-ex-communists are
eager to restore the prestige that was lost back to Mother Russia. The
easiest way to do this would be to knock the current hyper-power off
its pedestal and is there a better way to do that then to challenge it
with Iran? What, you think there’s at least a billion better ways to
try to become great again? You don’t understand communists then.

They truly believe that their ideology is the only way and they will
do whatever it takes to make sure that happens. They will support a
regime whose puppet, Syria, was recently bombed for coming too close to
making a workable nuclear weapon. But maybe there’s still hope for the
president.

Bush, seeking to explain his relationship with a man
whom he once said he viewed as a trusted ally against terrorism - but
who has since led his country in steadily more authoritarian directions
- said that he and Putin “don’t agree on a lot of issues.”

Still, he said, it was vital to maintain an open and candid relationship that allowed each man to speak his mind.

The president nonetheless acknowledged American frustrations at trying to influence Russia.

“In terms of whether or not it’s possible to reprogram the kind of
basic Russian DNA, which is a centralized authority,” Bush said,
“that’s hard to do.”

The best he could do, the president said, was to try to make it
clear that it is in Moscow’s interests to have good relations with the
West, and an open and democratic government.

Iran by itself is going to be a tough situation to handle. It is
only going to get tougher as countries like Russia and China (at some
point) begin to seriously undermine American foreign policy objectives.
As a country we need to be a little less trusting of “friends” who work
to have absolute power over their citizens. BigT

recommend This comment thread is now closed
Brian A Kennedy
Brian A Kennedy
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 04:10 on October 18th, 2007

Nice roundup, BigT.

PEP
PEP
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 06:07 on October 18th, 2007

BigT, good stuff.

gryphon
gryphon
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 08:29 on October 18th, 2007

BigT, I like this story. It's good stuff.

0
Kaitlin

I would like to remind NowPublic members that inflammatory or abusive speech in comments is considered Flaming and will be construed as a violation our Flaming Policy and/or our Terms of Service. Users found to violate these terms risk losing their site privileges. Please refer to the above links for more information. Thank you.

0
The Anglo American

Kaitlin, Since when has censorship been necessary to defend the principles of which our country is founded - one of those principles being free speech ! I can't believe you posted this. What is going on at NP? 

0
Kaitlin

Hi Anglo,

Thank you for your response to my comment. If you look closer at the comment, however, you will note that I am not censoring anyone, nor am I threatening any right to free speech. I am simply throwing my hat in, as it were, reminding people having a discussion that said discussion should be about the topic at hand and not the people arguing their point.

This thread has remained relatively civilized up to this point, but my comment was intended to remind people to keep it that way.

The larger intent of the comment--and indeed of the Flaming Policy itself--is quite the opposite of censorship. It is to create a forum where people feel free and open to express their opinions without fear of personal attack or reprisal.

Please see the Flaming Policy for more information.

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The Anglo American


Hi Kaitlin. Understood. My response to you came about through some contributors saying this was anti-American and were insulted i.e. racial flaming - and then you ride in with the cavalry {or so I thought!} to save these poor souls from the quite harsh criticism being voiced here. It was all in the timing and I {unusually} did not pick up on your soothing karma - for which I apologise. It did look from here as if the heavy hand of Big Sister was about to swipe. Maybe I am being sensitve - being a veteran of combat with the heavy hand of Big Brother recently! As I say it was all in the timing of the postings. Peace.    

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The Anglo American

This is not an anti-American speech. It is an anti-American Government speech. It is the same speech I have heard over and over again through the last year as I've lived and worked in Spain, Germany, France and the UK - countries with some of the most politically astute people, from all walks of life, that you can find  anywhere  on the planet. Equally their focus was criticising this administration, not Americans. Go get a passport and find out for yourself! I promise you will learn something - not least the goodwill that exists between these peoples towards Americans . But what is blindingly obvious to these people, and many people across the world, requires an act of courage to express in the US - witness your response to moonwolf. If the US engages so actively in global intervention then there is little room for ethnocentricity from it's people. It is illusionary.  

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reednews

Anglo I disagree this is an attack on the brave soldiers who are giving up everything to serve whoever is in leadership and no matter what Government. It is insulting to all who are patriots.

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The Anglo American

The criticism I see here is against the people who dispatch those good troops in the first place - not the good troops themselves.   

The Anglo American
The Anglo American
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 11:15 on October 18th, 2007

Good stuff Big T. Your article provoked a great discussion.   

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Tom van B

Moonwolf's writing on this page is indeed good stuff. He presents his point extremely well in my opinion. Why are some of us resorting to: "denigrating someone's country or their President" and pointing to "review the 'flaming' policy". What in God's name is wrong with denigrating our prime minister Helen Clark of New Zealand, if I feel that this is called for. Why on earth are people so precious about their Kings, Queens and presidents - it smacks of religion or scout club stuff to me. We can and must criticise where criticism is due. I have noticed on a number of occasions  that people here are hyper sensitive to criticism of their "leader/s" or the mention of religion - what is this all about??? Is this an US thing?

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juan114

some here think they have license to insult Americans so if some think it is a U.S.Thing it just shows ignorance and bigotry. And some have had to apologize for their ignorance more than once.

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gryphon

Tom- 


The reason this story is insulting to me and other Americans is because it does not solely address Mr. Bush and his policies but a group of people, including myself, who support Mr. Bush and those policies.


The following language was used in Moonwolf's essay "your President and the Neocons," "Your country, which is the only 'real and present' danger in the world today," "acting like a bunch of pirates and outright stealing the resources of other countries," "John F. Kennedy who was likely murdered for speaking so honestly," "you will all die," "you will all be plunged into abject poverty overnight," "the rest of the world will turn on you en masse," "Your government has already been working to erode your standard of living," "illogical and unbelieveable bullshit that no one with a brain could swallow without choking," "within your failing country," "Such a presumptuous self-absorbed bunch you are!," "you being willing to accept the destruction of your vaunted Constitution and Bill of Rights, and ceeding your democracy wholesale to the unlimited power of a "Unitary Executive", just a euphemism for Dictator!," "Anyone of you who cares to challenge this statement will only be declaring either your ignorance," "your little Fuhrer's crap."


All teh comments above are very inclusive of all Americans and very insulting. 


Anyone one of those statements may be seen as 'passionate' as the author hedged himself, but together its a work of vile hate.


Now, I'm not easily offended and I have already made my feelings known about moonwolf and why I don’t comment on his views or opinions.  But I will comment on equality of discourse when I see that he is allowed to outwardly disparage others without retribution. 


And I had thought that kaitlin had indeed taken action, until she wrote" This thread has remained relatively civilized up to this point, but my comment was intended to remind people to keep it that way."


So it seems that kaitlin approves of Moonwolf’s diatribe as 'civilized' but warns those of us who find his work insulting from opposing him or even standing up to him, because that would be off-topic.

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Tom van B

The problem is that you all take everything as personal attacks. You are in perpetual siege mode.

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juan114

The comments in question by the poster with the lunar reference are just a form of Marxist propaganda. It is nothing more than frustration for the fact that Americans enjoy more freedom than any other country. They celebrate that freedom with no guilt. They are strong and already defeated Marxism in the world. They protect their interest around the world as they should for if they didn't the tyrants the poster seems to have no problem with would bring death and destruction to those who do not follow. It is jealousy towards the strong while seeming to be a champion for the weak.It is all propaganda to bring moral down and in bed with those who want America destroyed. It is the atheist creed. Their heroes are Stalin, Mao,
Castro, Che, Chavez, They of course hate everything capitalist. No matter how they wrap it those who can smell them out know they are no friend of any American in fact they hope for our destruction.

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Tom van B

"....Americans enjoy more freedom than any other country." In what other country are people picked off the street and placed in months or years of confinement with out seeing a courtroom? In what other country are students tasered for speaking too long or speaking the wrong things?

0
gryphon

Tom-


 Why is it that America has such a big immigration problem?  Is it because millions want to live in a horrible country as you would liek us to believe?


Or is it because teh USA is the greatest country in the world, and you pick irrelevant examples to make a forced point?

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Tom van B

Gryphon, of course millions want to live in America, Australia Canada, Europe and New Zealand. These are places where people can still eat at least one meal a day. But of course we keep these millions of starving people out. Wouldn't want beautiful New Zealand overrun by thousands of starving and miserable immigrants, would I now.

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The Anglo American


Hi Tom van B,




When we were going to war with Iraq I sat down with some friends in Chicago PD - Republicans of course. We talked about Iraq for a while and I remember somebody saying, "well, I support my President." I do not know anywhere in the world where a leader can count on such unquestioning support. For some Americans, to question that bond would be like questioning the constitution itself. This is alien to kiwis who kick Helen or Brits who bash Brown, as a national passtime. Hey, the Brits celebrate blowing up parliament with Guy Falks night.  For some, it is simply not in the culture here.  Debates like this go to the very core of who they are and for some Americans it challenges how they define themselves. Naturally, it is quite threatening.


I hope that gives you an insight. You may not guess it from NP, or from what I have said, but they really are the nicest bunch of hundreds of millions of people you can find on the planet!               

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Tom van B

I have absolutely no doubt that American people are extremely nice, of course they are. You are correct, I am just not used at all to this fanatical type of nationalism I see on NP. It must be incomprehensible to Americans that no one, and I really mean no one in New Zealand has a national flag. You will just not see them. It’s a mark of maturity I feel - I like it here!.

0
The Anglo American

In Northern Ireland you will see many Union Jacks for the same reason. I have noticed a growing number of St. George flags in England. And during the World Cup many Germans thought it extremely brave to wave the German flag...in Germany! - such is the difficutly of any expression of nationalism there.  The big surge in Stars and Stripes has been since 9/11 but it has always been there. My guess is that Kiwis express their nationalism in different ways - cricket, rugby? No such national sides exist in the US {other than soccer but who takes any notice?}. We do have the "World Series" but, in reality it is a national event.      

0
Tom van B

Yes, you make a good observation, they do this (celebrating of NZ nationhood) through rugby and other sports (not so in your face). Wow, a big surge in Stars and Stripes since 9/11. I did not think there would have been room for more. Cheers, Tom.

0
Tom van B

"....Americans enjoy more freedom than any other country." In what other country are people picked off the street and placed in months or years of confinement with out seeing a courtroom? In what other country are students tasered for speaking too long or speaking the wrong things?

0
juan114

good stuff Big T

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gryphon

What I find curious is that this story, having received almost 200 views at this point and 6 Good Stuff flags is still not in the top 5 or on teh front page.  In contrast, teh #4 story at this point has 2 Good stuffs, and only 50 views.


Both have two Editor good stuffs, although this one only counts 1 NP editor goodstuff and 1 guest editor good stuff.  Somehow though, I feel like the crowd is not really powering these stories.

0
ryan

It's been on the front page for most of the day, fluctuating between the 3rd and 4th spot.

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juan114

So you see instead of an exchange over real issues this post was turned into Americans having to defend themselves from mean spirited jabs. those with so much hate towards a country that no one comes close to in charitable contributions to the third world. Americans who are the most generous people in the world are subject to a few people who think we have placed evil people in office. I defy to see anyone come up with another country that has freed or given more to the world. Instead some hate us for that. And tyrants like Castro use the USA to blame for their own failed societies.

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