Are Three Olympic Gymnasts Products of China's Culture of Cheating?

WHAT?! That's quite a blanket opinion, and it's offensive. What do you base this on?

I share generaldecay's sentiment, and I would ask the same question, "What do you base this on?"

I somehow have the feeling that they may be a general sentiment of Jalousie towards China's success and or maybe also a dose of fear due to a lack of knowledge and comprehension! 

I'm in generaldecay's camp, a biased opinion needs solid proof. But seriously, those girls were darn good.

Robert, your whole arguement is based on the faulty premise that there is an age linit to competiting in the olympics. Please check your facts before being so deflamitory. There is not. The youngest Britain is 14 and the youngest official age is a 12 year old Cameroonian swimmer. So why do the Chinese need to falsify the gilr's ages, if there is no need to do so?

It does appear that although there is not an age limit for competing in the olympics, there does seem to be a limit for gymnasts (they must turn 16 this year)... go figure...

Mark,

Maybe you need to check your facts before you accuse me of basing my whole argument on a faulty premise. I live in China; everyone here is more than well aware of the age limit. I wouldn't make a post like this unless I was VERY sure about the facts.

My students tell me tonight that Chinese state TV this week DID acknowledge that the young ladies are underage but said that we should be proud of them for their great job. As far as evidence is concerned, there is plenty...just take a look at the news today.

As far as your comments about me being "deflammatory" I would like to ask you a question. Have you ever lived in China? Have you ever talked to anyone about cheating in China? If you had, you would know that what I wrote was 'spot on.'

 

 

I was told today by my Chinese students that Chinese state run television CCTV has ackowledged that the girls are underage. However, CCTV, like my students, has tried to pass it off as no big deal. My students tell me tonight that this kind of cheating does not harm anyone...

While I would not choose to use those particular words, there is no question that cheating is a part of Chinese culture. On what do I base this opinion?  Hours spent talking to scores of Chinese students and friends who tell me that cheating is just apart of life in China. I talked to my students again tonight about this issue. They told me that the age limit rules "don't matter" and "who cares?" They said that everyone cheats when they have to and in this case no one was hurt by it. Adults and teenagers have told me that they cheat and always cheated on exams and tests whenever they could....it's sad but true...

Call it jealousy...but rules are the rules...if the IOC let's China get away with this one, what else will China be able to get away with?

Right..go figure...that's kind of why I made this post...

I could not agree with you more, great article! And for those arguing that people are just jealous, umm no, many were complaining about the evidence a few weeks before competition even began. There is definite EVIDENCE (strange that people say there is none) as it has been listed on several national sources before they cheated and changed the age, they are missing teeth, and their face looks like 8 years old (this is not just about looking young, they are kids!!!!). Also, look it up but the chinese gymnast from the last two olympics has admitted she was in fact too young to compete and cheated!!! We should DEMAND a further investigation. If they got to use younger girls then all the countries should have. Cheating is cheating!!! they should be disqualified, and 2nd team awarded gold, 3rd silver and 4th the bronze.

um, i don't get why if there is a unfair advantage(ie cheating) if they are younger chinese gymnasts(if they are younger) are more inexperienced and much less matured than the other competing gymnast that are of age, how does that comprehend to cheating? That would mean the chinese gymnast are actually much better and should be more commended for their victory at such a young age. Obviously you know very little about chinese ethics and culture, they are naturally hard working and do not have a reputation for cheating, sure every nation has its own percentage of people cheating, but to categorise the chinese as commom cheaters is very ignorant.

 

I live in China; I have a very close family member in China. Have you spent anytime here? Have you talked to any Chinese people about cheating? I doubt it.

You are also suggesting that we commend China for cheating. That is what the Chinese people here are suggesting as well. My friends here tell me that cheating is ok if it doesn't 'physically' hurt anyone. That is the attitude here. I am sorry...I don't go for that. Rules are rules. Commending a country for cheating is just ludicrous.

Ask any gynmastic expert about young gymnasts. There are more flexible; there are more moves that they can do because of their young age. They definitely have an advantage which is part of the reason why the IOC instituted the rules...

 

Agreed. China has disgraced not only themselves but all the other honest, hard working athletes with their lack of integrity.

Younger “women” gymnasts are at an advantage in that they typically are smaller and more flexible because they are lighter with fewer wrights and the muscle mass  to carry They are able to jump higher, twist faster and more likely not to fear complex maneuvers. The same with 10 meter platform diving a younger diver can do more difficult tricks in the air and enter the water with little splashes. But in 3 meter diving, diver needs have stronger legs and arms to able to jump and bounce higher on the diving board.  The International Federation of Gymnastics set the age limted at 16 because the younger gymnast’s bodies are not yet fully developed and as a result, they are more likely to sustain injury. The age rules also protect the gymnast and  even the playing field.

After very Olympic the fedration of gymnastics would lower the value of some of the skills, so when the next Olympic come around, the same skill which received high marks will no longer be competive. That is one of the reason  we will not see a defending Olympic woman gymnastic champion at the next olympic. 

There is a 2003 documentary film about how China was preparing for the 2008 Olympics.  This 89 minute documentary includes some then unknown athletes,  including two of the accused 'underage cheaters' - Jiang Yuyuan and Deng Lingling.

In 2003, China was already screening young girls for the 2008 Olympics, and the group included Jiang and Deng (but not He Kexin). They were selected because 'these girls will be at the right age in 2008', according to the film. While birth certificates, passports and newspaper reports can be faked, it is unlikely that this documentary was faked back then (with five years down the road!), unless the Chinese sports authorities were already certain who would emerge as eventual Olympians among such a large group.

If these girls are indeed 12-14 years old as some claimed, then they were only 7-9 years old back then in 2003. Isn't it ridiculous?

Check the film yourselves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWKVK6aJccc

Hi Robert. Your "Hours spent talking to scores of Chinese students and friends who tell [you] that cheating is just a part of life in China." is clearly hearsay and does not warrant identifying China a cheating culture as a whole, unlike in America where evidence suggests cheating is a national epidemic "...it's sad but true...".

Look.  There are many of us on this board who have lived, worked, or visited China and have enjoyed our stays.  I am certainly one of those individuals.  However, the reality is that the Chinese do cheat.  They cheat academically in the masses.  Nowhere is this more prevalent than in American standardized testing such as the LSAT, GMAT, GRE, SAT, and ACT.  Several years ago, it was widely reported and known that the Chinese had answers to the actual test and were passing these answers out online to Chinese students in order to place Chinese students at top American Universities.

The more concerning matter in this story is that a number of these girls have no choice but to follow a training regiment for sports that begins at the age of two to four years old.  The possibility of them winning in the Olympics and the government assisting their families and them is far too great to pass up.  I think people are very naive about the poverty in the countryside and in the cities.  China is still a developing country despite their robust economy and manufacturing sector.  These conditions make cheating all the more prevalent and acceptable.  As Americans we tend to think of cheating in an entirely different mind set than the Chinese.  They don't have a concept of "cheating" in their vocabulary or thought process.  They do understand rules of course, but this is a matter of culture and the huge importance of national pride that the Olympics in Beijing have brought to the country.  Now, if the IOC were to grow up and focus as much time on cheating as it does doping, the Chinese would lose face by having to return many medals.  This loss of face would be a huge blow to the people and the government.  Thus, this obvious cheating will not be acknowledged by the IOC.  It is truly hard to prove something conclusively in a nation state where the government has all authority to make and forge documents.

There is absolutely no question that He is ineligible to compete.  There is just too much documentation that the Chinese could not erase in time on the internet and their official records.  Chinese newspaper writers do not make mistakes as the government overseas the information.  For the government to claim after the fact that several newspapers and competition filings were inaccurate is just impossible.  Anyone who has lived an worked in China as a foreigner knows this to be true.  I apologize to anyone who may take offense, but the Chinese did cheat and they are still cheating according to IOC rules on age.  However, as a friend from China tells me, "who cares if they don't punish you".  Not only do I understand his point from a Chinese perspective but we also have to acknowledge the BALCO era of American sprinters and athletes.  Marion Jones is an embarrassment to our country.             

Thanks for your comments. I agree. However, Marion Jones and the US were punished for breaking the rules. What about China? It wasn't punished in 2000 and it doesn't look like the IOC is going to move now...

China payed of the judges in the gymnastics, no question about it. Ive never seen anything more biased in my life.

Congratulations on your FAKE medals China.

How about history? That work for you sparky? History pretty much sums up the raw deception of that country, and this last week at the Olympics has cemented it in the minds of everyone who cares. So everyone but the IOC and the fucking cheating Chinese apparently.

No argument they were good. And in four years when they are of proper age to compete, they will be stunning.

But this was a cheat, outright in everyone's face.... A complete cheat, and they're going to get away with it..... I have lost respect for the IOC.

RobertVance, I like this story. It's good stuff.

It is very quit about ages. May be everybody shut up because lovely teen Shawn Johnson of the US won gold.

You know and thats official, she is only 16 years old.

So there is no need at all to say anything about ages to the Chinese. Keep respect.

RobertVance, this rarely happens, but even though I originally thought this story was Good Stuff, I now have some questions.

Did you reveal all your sources?

I also wanted to confirm that you actually witnessed the event, or that you added information that you research on your own.