"No Information For You," she said...

by malka | July 28, 2008 at 01:09 pm

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Okay, so the title of this is not a direct quote, but it certainly speaks to the gist of my trying to find out some information from the Toronto Police Service about recent crime in my neighbourhood.

Around 11 pm on July 18, 208, a man and woman were shot near Bloor Street West and Brunswick Avenue, outside of By The Way Café in Toronto's Annex. According to reports by CTV, CBC, and City, nobody died and no motive or suspects were apparent. I cannot find any further information.

On Saturday July 26, 2008, around 9:45 pm, a fire fighter was hosing down Walmer Road just north of Bloor Street, by the Walmer TTC entrance. When I asked him what had happened, he nonchalantly said. “Oh, we’re hosing blood off the street from a stabbing.” While this answered my question about how blood from crime got handled, he had no additional information for me. He was just the man with the hose.

With gun crime in the city rising, I can only infer that stabbings are less newsworthy.

The Annex is where I live, and I'm curious and engaged enough that I like to know what's going on. So I called Toronto Police Services and was told that the only information I can get is whatever might be released to the media. But if the media hasn’t reported on it, it seems like I should still be able find out what happens in my neighbourhood.

"Okay...if I were a part of The Media," I asked, "how would I find this out?" With a sigh, the non-emergency line officer told me I would have to call the PR Department. Which I have since done a few times, but they haven't yet answered the phone.

Thank you Now Public for allowing me to feel like part of the media and so more entitled to information than regular ol’ folk. I’ll keep you posted.

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Rob Peters

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at 13:33 on July 28th, 2008

You raise an interesting point. I've worked for various publications and I'm always surprised how quickly people return my calls when I leave messages as a reporter. I think part of the issue is that journalists can offer something in return for information, even if it's just a brief mention in the paper, whereas someone just calling up out of the blue has nothing to "trade," so to speak. It's too bad, because like you say, anyone should be able to get information on important events in their neighbourhood.

Rob Peters

at 08:23 on July 29th, 2008

Here's an entry on the shooting from a blogger named Raymi:

http://raymitheminx.blogspot.com/2008/07/blog-post.html

Mike Wood

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at 14:03 on July 28th, 2008

malka, I like this story. It's good stuff.

Try calling them back and say you work for Malka Magazine or something like it and see if it works. They say BS baffles brains so you never know.

Now if only we could say we write for NowPublic? Hmmmmm

julianw

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at 14:15 on July 28th, 2008

Thanks malka. Efforts to cover-up information that the public has a right to know about should all turn into censorship scandals. How do the Toronto Police think they can get away with this?

malka

at 15:46 on July 28th, 2008

I didn't the sense so much as overt cover up and censorship as laziness and lack of will/interest. Neither is great, but the intention behind the latter is more annoying than sinister. I'm curious enough to pursue it, though.

julianw

at 17:44 on July 28th, 2008

Ah, yeah that does makes more sense. I'll take my jumpy indignation at the police elsewhere :)

PEP

at 19:54 on July 28th, 2008

I doubt they're "censoring." For all they know, someone who phones in to ask questions might be the criminal, a relative of the criminal, or--whatever. Working an investigation is a delicate mix of releasing information, in appropriate channels, at the right times, while also keeping some information private.

A small example: I know where a house is that does major drug deals. They'll get busted sooner or later. I've done stakeout on patrol on this house. We thought we had a good bust of someone leaving, but the car got away from us--we were carefully tailing--and out of our line of sight, and because it was past midnight in a dark area, we didn't have a license number. So we could have nabbed the buyer in another block--but the fact that we didn't have either the license number or constant surveillance meant that they could say "gee whiz, you got your cars mixed up during that 15 seconds after that car you say you saw turned the corner." And for our purposes, we couldn't take that car down near the drug house.

Now, do you think that under any circumstances, having been entrusted with this information, that I would ever ever tell anyone what I know? Nope. Neither the address of that house or the investigation focused on it is common knowledge--of course.

Police have to be very very careful about what they say to whom. And I can't imagine anyone just giving out investigation information over the phone to someone who declares that they're "Mrs. Smith" who's upset over crime.

You would not believe how much the cops get lied to--and how good some people are at it. And oh yea, the cussing, threats, and spitting on you--some of 'em are real good at that, too, when you haul them in.

It's not like being in a comfy office setting where you can chat people up. Really.

If your city or town offers a Citizen's Police Academy--take it. You'll be amazed at what you learn. (This isn't just intended for Julian, but for everyone.) No, you don't have to ride patrol afterwards--very few people actually do. But you will learn an enormous amount about the complexity of police work.

Emilio Lizardo

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at 15:17 on July 28th, 2008

This story gives me a feeling of 'vague uneasiness' ...

mtippett

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at 15:22 on July 28th, 2008

Thank you for this malka. One wonders why this information is not made public more readily.

PEP

at 19:58 on July 28th, 2008

Firstly, see my other two comments. And there's always this--most newspaper have standard police reporters (we used to call it "cop shop"). Call the local newspaper, ask to speak to the police reporter, and ask if that reporter is working on a story about a stabbing at XXXXX and whether or not they're working on what seems to be a rise in stabbing crimes. Or whatever.

You might find that a newspaper is working on it--or that they'd love to have your information, or both. Information may already be public--but the newspaper, TV, or radio stations may not have provided coverage on it.

Don't be too quick to blame the cops if you don't have news about crime. Providing the news is the job of the press, IMHO. Solving the crime is the job of the police.

cidy (not verified)

at 17:01 on July 28th, 2008

Thanks.

PEP

at 19:43 on July 28th, 2008

Just a heads up for you. Check your police department to see if they have a Community Resources officer; or a Community Outreach officer. In many police departments--at least in the U.S.--they have officers trained in and assigned to work with the public in everything from self defense classes to Community Watch programs to educational outreach. When you call in, ask for the Captain on duty (or that equivalent in your system)--skip Watch Sgt because he/she will be busy with running the shift. Explain to whoever they put you through to that you and your neighbors have real concerns, that you need facts, and that you need education on this matter.

The chances are real good that someone will be glad to sit down and talk with you, if they have these types of programs. Sometimes someone will even come out to a meeting of neighborhood residents if someone arranges one. Be aware though, that they will not divulge anything that might compromise an investigation--which is only logical. They may talk in general terms, but hold back something like "We've found a size 15 Nike shoe print at every break-in site." Say something specific and evidence will disappear, leads will disappear, and sometimes the jerk doing the crime will hide out or move on to a different location.

I'm not a cop. I just took the Academy for citizens, and I ride patrol with them when I can. It's really not true that only members of the media can get information. Sometimes, citizens who are affected by a string of crimes can get very good response. After all, it helps police protect the community if they educate their citizens.

Good luck!

PEP

flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 19:44 on July 28th, 2008

malka, I like this story. It's good stuff.

Uwe Paschen

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at 20:00 on July 28th, 2008

malka, I like this story. It's good stuff.

Hum, Many Question left in the open!

raymi (not verified)

at 13:41 on July 29th, 2008

media probably wants to sweep it under the rug and forget about it cos of the neighbourhood it took place in, no one wants to dwell on scary things in the annex.