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at 12:57 on January 30th, 2011
Will humanity destroy our own planet and become some alien race in space? Looks like we are headed that way. Man has destroyed, killed, and polluted everything he touched through history. Only now it's at an exponential accelerated rate.
at 09:08 on February 1st, 2011
I don't think this will happen. People mess up things but we also have the ability to correct our mistakes. In the future we will inhabit other planets but will still be on earth, an improved earth.The key in the near future is to control population growth, achieve 0 growth until we can go to other planets.
at 13:08 on January 30th, 2011
at 14:41 on January 30th, 2011
Faster than a cosmic blink of the eye, less than a millennium really, I believe this question will be answered. Or if we already are visited/occupied by an alien race, from all these UFO reports, they will become the ruling force_if they are not already. Technological advances and mind control developments, means it's only a matter of time now.
at 18:24 on January 30th, 2011
I think psychopaths are quite different than us. They are alien in their lack of empathy. It would seem many current and past leaders or rulers fit this psychological profile. Perhaps they are now among us?
at 15:28 on January 30th, 2011
The greatness of man is we are capable of farming, husbanding or manufacturing our needs. If this is seen as destroying or killing or polluting everything man has touched, that is a very self-defeating and self-loathing attitude. An attitude which negates everyone of the the advances of man down through the ages. Never mind that mankind is engaged in a [proven] constant process of self-correction. Not that you would ever get the self-loather to give up any of those many and various social and technological advances and return to the trees to live like their anthropological ancestors scavenging for roots and seedpods, dying off in droves at the slightest viral or environmental change. I understand the caves in Bandelier National Park, New Mexico, are vacant since the passing of the Puebloan Indian. Let's see how long The 1 can last without his ipod and Macbook Air, dragging his knuckles along the Gila basin scavenging for sustenance.
at 17:04 on January 30th, 2011
Personally I find in many ways that mankind has actually regressed. Even with these technologies mankind hasn't gotten any better at solving centuries old problems of hate, anger, self-awareness, environmental harmony, war etc. Man seems self destructive in nature. Maiming, destroying, killing, and polluting everything on the planet. Not exactly a stellar history. Overpopulation, diseases, pollution, and war. Is this progress?
Nor have we seemed to have learned much from it, constantly repeating our past mistakes. More like going round and round in some self defeating circle of existence. We call it the circle of life. Religions and politics only seemed to make it worse. Most wars in history, many of untold death and destruction, caused by one or both of these man made impetus.
Is man really smarter or more advanced not living within the boundaries of nature and natural evolution? Will we end up becoming the alien in space and time ourselves?
at 22:48 on January 30th, 2011
There are no boundaries in nature. Nature is evolutionary, and in as much there is no natural evolution, as evolution is not controlled by any sense of preconceived good. Or bad. Evolutionary instances that work become part of the evolvement. Those instances of evolutionary adaptations that don't work die off. There is no protection against those who will use all advantage against their fellow man. Usually, their fellow countryman or co-religious. There is no perfect world as there are no perfect peoples. If man survives, barring a catastrophic meteor impact and we can keep the earth warm enough to stave off the coming ice age, space is the 'natural' evolvement for mans further existence. Both the sun and earth suffer the same limit as man. Lifespan. This fact of life alone necessitates the future event of moving off world and to planetary colonizations.
at 05:58 on January 31st, 2011
Interesting points .30-06.
Some might counter by suggesting not only is there a natural evolution and order in all things in nature on earth, but also a cosmic order and evolution to all things in the universe. That these forces control the balance and natural harmony of all things in the universe; and on all planets. That humanity is only a small part of this physical and cosmic order.
Human beings being the only species that upset this balance on earth, in nature, and space now. That living in harmony with the universe was mean't for all creatures. Mankind rejection of this model has lead us off the path of natural order and evolution. Leading mankind down a path of technological and biological self mutating. Destroying natural order in all life forms; the natural process ( evolution ) in our earths ecosystems and environment.
Will the Alien be us?
at 07:03 on January 31st, 2011
The natural order is chaos. Random numbers. Unpredictability. 65million years ago and for 160+million years before that dinosaurs were the dominate vertebrate species. 65million years ago, post Cretaceous period, there was a mammalian bloom with many diverse mutational developments with each carving out their "unnatural" territories according to the nature of the individual mutation. With out the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event it is unlikely mankind would have ever been. Chaos and a random event allowed an opportunity for genus diversification. There is nothing fixed in this universe safe from change. What is here today can be gone tomorrow to be replaced by something else. It's all a matter of time and opportunity. Your model of what mankind was 'meant to be' is ideological claptrap derived from a egotistical assumption passed down through generations. The very fact of your personal existence is the result of a random event involving not only your parents meeting sexually but, that one of 60 odd million spermatozoa of your father penetrating one of your mothers ovum that gave rise to your being. You exist by chance and a random and unpredictable event.
at 11:06 on January 31st, 2011
Thxs again .30-06
The essense of all things has order. How could anything exist without the physical and natural properties that all known science is based on. These sciences of the very existence and essense of all things in this universe, have been shown and proven by this. We could not exist without this order and cosmic/earth natural evolution. Natural order is anything but chaos. It is pure and absolute in everything that exist in the universe. All our knowledge of our very existence relies on it; is based on it. Everything that exist evolves, and has evolved from it.
at 12:35 on January 31st, 2011
All known science is based on variables. Higher mathematics acknowledges these variables and they are part of the equation. Actually, as our knowledge expands deeper into the intricacies of the building blocks of matter we find ever more chaos and randomness. Elemental collisions. Bonds breaking, energy being released, atoms lost or gained, new substrates being formed. Natural order doesn't exist on any plane as nature is not static but, evolutionary. The only 'natural' thing about nature is that evolution and propensity for change. Nature reacts. Seeking, to use your word, order -but everything is dynamic keeping every living cell on planet earth, human, pant or animal, in a constant battle for homeostasis. Or again to use your word, order. But the order is not the native state. The continuous struggle to achieve it is the norm. That you may hope for a static reality that can be determined and perhaps even programmable to fulfill your own personal ideological view is what has lead you to denounce mankind as a destroyer. Anyone with a less dour ideological driven view of his world can plainly see that man is a magnificent creator with an immense capacity to manufacture the tools and products necessary to build what ever is or has been perceived as necessary and beneficial to the further development of his society. As fallible beings much of what we have done has been for the good. Even many of the wars down through history. Our progressive development as a species, both physically and mentally, in a hostile world is manifest. Nothing has ever been assured as we have progressed through our evolutionary development. Nor is your tomorrow.
at 13:45 on January 31st, 2011
.30-06 You suggest..
"The only 'natural' thing about nature is that evolution and propensity for change. Nature reacts"..
"Nature reacts. Seeking, to use your word, order -"
In otherwords, 'it evolves'; as in evolution. 'Evolution' being part of natural order in the universe. It's how all things came to be, are created and die. Even the stars and the cosmos evolves in this balance and perfect harmony of natual universal evolution.
It's actually our sciences that struggle to keep up or comprehend; not the otherway around. Man's understanding is finite of the universe.
Just because things 'change and evolve' doesn't mean there isn't order and meaning to everything that happens in the universe. Whether man understands it or not really doesn't matter. Man is part of it.
Mans role is to belong and fit into the essense of all things. Believing that nature and natural order, evolution on earth and in the universe is to be somehow controlled or manipulated by man creates an imbalance. Will we be the one that destroy ourselves; our world; even our universe with the path we are going down now ?
One last point, you stated..
"Anyone with a less dour ideological driven view of his world can plainly see that man is a magnificent creator with an immense capacity to manufacture the tools and products necessary to build what ever is or has been perceived as necessary and beneficial to the further development of his society"
I agree man can be a great force for good, but also has proven to be a great force for wrong. These paths in our history shows we don't always choose right over wrong; good over evil. Was cosmic order and natural evolution on earth mean't to be lived with by man, or manipulated by man ? Are we the better judge of our destiny than the universe we were born into. 'Will we become the Alien to our own Universe'..
at 18:27 on January 30th, 2011
I couldn't agree more. I feel we are lonely in our views.
at 16:48 on January 31st, 2011
Oh my. Humanity not always have'n been right. Ya good luck with that. Must be terribly lonely up there in that ivory tower looking down upon all those imbeciles going about their natural order. All human behavior is natural to humans. Our base instincts being the most natural. The word 'natural' is ambiguous. Everything in the universe is natural to the universe. Unless you know of a neighboring universe that slips stuff in when we aren't looking? Non-living matter does not evolve. The universe did not evolve. There is no known natural evolution or order to evolution. Evolution is not predictable. It can not be predicted what may instigate an evolutionary alteration. What happened to the need for the appendix? Man's role! Who defined that for us? Who's to say just what our cosmic role is to be. And yes we are a better judge of our destiny. That is our advantage over the animals. All that there is out there in the universe is for us, as soon as we can devise a way to reach it. It's our nature.
at 03:45 on February 1st, 2011
.30-06 Ok, really this wasn't mean't to be a discussion about any specific human being on some personal level. It was more to do with mankinds technological and natural evolution. Man's path into the future either being in tune or at odds with natures natural evolution. More to do specifically with man's technological manipulation of natural process and human evolutionary forces using sciences such as nano technologies at genetic, biological, and atomic level sciences. The effects of global pollution, environmental issues, and extinction of other living species and plant life.
You mention; "Non-living matter does not evolve. The universe did not evolve. There is no known natural evolution or order to evolution. Evolution is not predictable. It can not be predicted what may instigate an evolutionary alteration."
There are many sciences and theories of 'Cosmology', 'Astrophysics', 'Steady-State Theory', 'Big Bang Theory', 'Pulsating Theory', astronomy, Science of Natural and Environmental Systems, geology, anthropology, etc that are involved with the study and exploration of those very issues. The earth and all of the universe has been shown to have evolved.
You might find this of interest:
The Evolution of the Universe
Thxs again !
at 08:24 on February 1st, 2011
Inorganic matter does not have the capacity to evolve. Inorganic matter may go through many physical changes depending on the environment it exists in or natural forces exerted upon them but, that it not evolution. Iron does not evolve into steel. Words have value. And when people use words they have a responsibility to use the words according to that value and in their appropriate place. People who are not precise with their word usage are probably equally not concerned with precision regarding their other endeavors.
The common assumption in the total of your submissions is the 'naturalness' of nature and that it is a unified phenomenon working for a collective good, while on the other hand you question the nature of mankind and hold it outside that natural phenomenon and common good. Why is it that human nature and evolution is kept apart from this whole? How do you justify keeping man separate from the natural universe and hold mans activities equally separate from that naturalness of, and order of the universe?
at 11:32 on February 1st, 2011
Man is the only living creature on earth that doesn't live within the laws of nature. Man manipulates, perverts, pollutes and destroys his own and all other living things natural environments. It's man that has followed a path outside natural evolutionary forces and order.
Should man learn to live within these evolutionary boundaries, or continue down this path of self fulfillment. Nature and this earths ecosystems are beginning to show the strain of those decisions.
Btw, all fundamental science and mathematics is based on the evolutionary foundations of universe principles. All has been shown to evolve from these scientific principles and mathematical theory.
at 13:10 on February 1st, 2011
This comment above is exactly what I find so startling about the position you have taken on what is nature. You continue to exclude human nature from the whole. We do and behave as we do because we have evolved both physically and mentally to exert some control over our environment. And it happened naturally. We do not live a passive environmental relationship, but are actively engaged in our environment using all aspects of it to further our society. This does not equate to "we do not live with in the laws of nature" or "chosen a path outside natural evolutionary forces and order". Such statements as these are bunk. We absolutely live with in the laws of nature. We have no choice. Even with our understanding of physics and our ability to utilize these natural laws to our own end does not preclude by any reason that, "we do not live with in the laws of nature". Human beings are unique of all animal life on this planet and to compare our existence, evolution, behavior to anything else is ridiculous. You are so negatively hung up on this moment in time you have no positive vision of the future mankind's creative and technological abilities will create.
at 13:50 on February 1st, 2011
lol..Thxs again .30-06 No, I'm not negative, just pointing out another view of reality. Man does have abilities to live beyond natural evolution in someways. To actually change or manipulate evolutionary forces of nature. Thats the point. Is that good? You seem to suggest it is..Thanks for that view !
My point has more to do with man's manipulation of these forces on all things around him and our world. Will these changes benefit us as you suggest, or harm us and our world beyond return. Man is actually capable of destroying himself and this planet though the technologies, pollution, and over population we have now.
Yes, when decisions are made that better our lives and this world together, we move forward. But that isn't always the case with man. Would it be wiser to form a closer bond with the natural laws of evolution; in our decisions, choices, and technologies? Form a more perfect union between earth, all life on earth, and man's continued survival. Or become the alien species on it; destroying the earth, and killing all other life forms on it in the process.
at 15:56 on February 1st, 2011
We have moved forward in-spite of our failings. The last one hundred years have been nothing but an accelerated move forward never seen in human history. The next one hundred years are going to be awesome. I'm confident in that we will not come to a perfect solution, and that we will as fallible beings have to continue the struggle towards environmental homeostasis in partnership with our technological advancement. However, IMHO the struggle is the journey and the journey is the better part of the end. My great and abiding conflict with the idealist is that they obfuscate the journey with great expectations of the end. Give me the struggle and you can have your perfect end. I willingly participate in the great struggle with out fear of error, and if it brings my end, I will have lived fully in my time with out regret.
at 19:39 on February 1st, 2011
Thxs for your thoughts and comments .30-06 !
"Give me the struggle and you can have your perfect end. I willingly participate in the great struggle with out fear of error, and if it brings my end, I will have lived fully in my time with out regret."
Great quote !
at 07:14 on February 2nd, 2011
Participating "in the great struggle without fear of error" is EVIL, because it is mindless and conscienceless. Without strict attention to one's motives and the outcomes of one's actions, one inevitably CONTRIBUTES to mankind's suffering. Only malignant narcissists find this headlong rush into activity for activity's sake praiseworthy.
at 07:31 on February 2nd, 2011
Thirty ought six and The 1: Thanks for the laughs. It was like overheaing two ants philosophize.
at 08:35 on February 2nd, 2011
Thanks to the two latecomers comments..
Dudley, I'm not sure thats what .30-06 exactly mean't..
TI, great one liner..lol Anything else or is that it..
at 09:05 on February 2nd, 2011
I want to thank thirty-aught-six and The 1 for a great conversation. Don't let the closed minds at the end spoil it. I don't think either of you are evil or ants. It is well known that those who are afraid of life or making mistakes never get started in the first place. And that some of the greatest miscalculations have lead to some of the greatest inventions. Bread. Coffee. Vinegar. Raisins. Cellophane. Microwave cooking. Rayon. Stainless steel. To name a few we use everyday.
at 17:02 on February 2nd, 2011
I'd like to add my own koodo's to both of you. It's a shame more conversations on NP weren't as stimulating. The usual left/right dialogue is boring to no end.
at 20:43 on February 2nd, 2011
Thanks for your comment 'Marion Wynne' and 'trans-parere' ! Man's choices from now on affects all things on earth _into the future.
at 14:04 on April 12th, 2011
Peace be with you. My comments were meant to be helpful. Please pardon the cross-post here (I was told to "get lost").
at 14:12 on April 12th, 2011
Scrivener tells everyone to get lost, just ignore him..He's can be somewhat rude and antisocial at times. It's just Scrivener way or style of writing. Thanks for your input !
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Thxs for your thoughts and comments .30-06 ! "Give me the struggle and you...
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