Afghanistan-Int Law and Afghan prisoners-Who prosecutes suspects?

by Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke | November 26, 2009 at 03:48 am
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A story is emerging in Canada this morning which raises the question of what should be done with suspects that are arrested after causing the deaths of Canadian soldiers.

Sgt. Robert Short and Cpl. Robbie Beerenfenger were the first Canadians killed by hostile Afghans when a landmine blew up their vehicle late in 2003.

With various intelligence agencies operating in Afghanistan, the information on who caused their deaths was quickly available.

The suspects were not Taliban, but Afghan fighters who worked for the warlord Gulbiddin Hekmatyar.

According to the CBC story, Canadian authorities struggled with how to deal with these suspects and at one point pondered with the idea of bringing them back to Canada for prosecution.

This idea was quickly dropped.  Canada was also not prepared to hand these prisoners over to American authorities.  Eventually they were handed over to the Afghan government.

The emergence of this story raises an interesting question regarding International law.  How should suspects responsible for causing Canadian deaths be dealt with? 

Would it be right to send these people back for prosecution in Canada under International law? 

Is this a case where the Geneva Conventions apply?

Since Canada really is in Afghanistan to support the Afghan government should these suspect be handed over to  Afghan authorities?

Concerns about Canada's handling of Afghan detainees has also raised an entirely different question: What was done with captured Afghans suspected of killing or wounding Canadian soldiers?

Sgt. Robert Short and Cpl. Robbie Beerenfenger were the first Canadians killed by hostile Afghans when a landmine blew up their vehicle late in 2003.

Canadian intelligence knew who was behind the attack because various spy agencies backing up ally troops in Afghanistan had intercepted cellphone calls, CBC News has learned.

The suspects weren't Taliban, but rather Afghan fighters who worked for a warlord named Gulbiddin Hekmatyar, a former U.S. ally. Within hours, Canadian troops arrested two of them.

There was high-level discussion about bringing them to Canada to stand trial, but the intelligence agencies made it clear they would never divulge their methods in court, so that was ruled out.

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3
Uwe Paschen

I am not certain why the question does arise. It is a war and there for the rules of the Geneva convention do apply.

The Taliban government has never surrendered nor agreed to give up. There for it is still a war and the rules of war apply. 

Further the U.S. did call it a war from the get go and repeated this many times over, NATO has called it a war and the Taliban call it a war. It must be a war then.


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Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke

I think the problem is that war has never been officially declared. In any case it is a question that the media raised after it was raised by the wife of Sergeant Stone. The Canadian military did also not do a good job documented of what happened to them after turn over to Afghan authorities.

0
marianmo

i'm not sure what the answer is

1
aurealeus

I can see it now.....

Iraq and Afghanistan wanting Canada, the United States and other coalition countries to hand over coalition soldiers to submit to their legal system for alleged crimes against their country and people because of the war.

Not a wise precedent to initiate or policy to make in my opinion.

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Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke

yes that would be real bad policy.

3
nanute

The suspects weren't Taliban.... There seems to be some possibility that Hekmaytar, though not "Taliban", does sympathize with the cause: 

Hekmatyar, a Pashtun from Kunduz, is legendary as the Mujahideen commander, whose disagreement with Rabbani and Masoud over the formation of a Mujahideen government in the early 1990s led to the razing of Kabul. Their conflict was central to the anarchy that developed in the country, providing the fertile ground in which the Taliban movement emerged. Hekmatyar has ideologically been close to the Pakistani Jamaat-i-Islami, a more progressive strain of radical Islamic thought than the Taliban. Hekmatyar opposed the Taliban when they emerged, though many of his commanders later defected to them. He was eventually forced to flee Afghanistan, finding refuge in Iran. After September 11, 2001, Hekmatyar immediately opposed America’s war in Afghanistan, turned around and took the side of the Taliban, and proclaimed a Jihad against the U.S., returning to Afghanistan where he found a base in the unruly Pashtun-populated southeastern provinces of Afghanistan, from Kunar to Paktia. These provinces were his old power base in the 1980s, and serve the same purpose again.

At present, Hekmatyar has recast himself in the role as a magnet of Pashtun dissatisfaction in Afghanistan. He is pursuing a clear Pashtun nationalist agenda, seeking to appeal to the things Afghans have always loathed and often risen up to fight against: foreign occupation, foreign troops, puppet governments, violations of Pashtun traditions.Central Asia-Caucasus Institute  John Hopkins University.


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Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke

Thanks for this clarification nanute:)

4
nanute

Most welcome ACP. There are some voices out there that think coming up with a solution with regard to captured enemy combatants and terrorists, is PC.  Summarily dispensing with justice, military or otherwise, and swift execution is the method of choice for dealing with the "enemy."

If captured on the field of battle, in the course of engagement, prisoners should be subject to Military Justice. The larger problem is what to do with suspected combatants or terrorists. This is the area that has so many on the right, "clutching the pearls." Innocent until proven guilty is passe', and scorned as some type of evil left wing conspiracy that gets equated with sympathizing with the enemy. I'd love to dispense with justice and kill the bastards just as much as the next guy. But, I'm not willing to give up my morality or sense of right and wrong to condone vengeance in the name of justice. Call me old school, call me a radical leftist, (not you ACP), I don't care how my thoughts are labeled. I'm sticking with my principles until the absolute moralists, and authoritarians have taken over and come breaking down my door.


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Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke

The discussion in Canada has gone even further than that.  International law requires that captured enemy combatants handed over to the Afghan government are not subject to torture. If Canada had knowledge of its captured enemy combatants being tortured in Afghan prisons,  Canada can be held accountable under international law, especially the players involved.

This case here is slightly different in that the widows of the soldiers think that the suspects should have been brought back to Canada for trial.  It's a valid question. Not being an expert on international law, the answer to this question may be quite interesting.

During normal circumstances you can ask to have a suspect extradicted, however the crime should have been committed in Canada.  In this case, the allegations are against suspects that allegedly killed Canadians, makes it even more complicated since the act took place in Afghanistan. 

1
Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke


Thanks for this Roy.   I would think though that these measures, in the case of the Taliban, would require a declaration of war.  In all likelihood the invasion was legal under Article 51 under the UN Charter.  That is debateable though.


The United Nations Security Council (UNSC) did not authorize the U.S.-led military campaign in Afghanistan (Operation Enduring Freedom). There is some debate as to whether UNSC authorization was required, centered around the question of whether the invasion was an act of collective self-defense provided for under Article 51 of the UN Charter, or an act of aggression.[44]

The U.S. Administration did not declare war, and labeled Taliban troops and supporters terrorists rather than soldiers, denying them the protections of the Geneva Convention and due process of law. This position has been successfully challenged in the U.S. Supreme Court[45] and questioned even by military lawyers responsible for prosecuting affected prisoners.[46]

On December 20, 2001, the UNSC did authorize the creation of an International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) with authority to take all measures necessary to fulfill its mandate of assisting the Afghan Interim Authority in maintaining security.[47] Command of the ISAF passed to NATO on August 11, 2003.[48]


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Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke

I think both of you make valid points.  After 2003 when the UNSC authorized NATO to take all necessary action in assisting the Afghan Interim authority, to take all necessary measures, the mandate became clear.  Up to that point, I think, the action was on a slippery slope. 

Canada had one battlegroup (battalion size) under command of U.S. Forces in early 2002.  The Canadian Government at that time claimed that the invasion of Afghanistan was sanctioned by the UN.  This action was more of an attempt to satisfy the Bush Administration for snubbing them over the Iraq invasion.


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Barry ORegan

Sure smacks of political grandstanding by the opposition.

As you well know, the Taliban are not recognized as soldiers and do not fall under the Geneva convention, secondly to try them in  Canada under our current cultural Puppy and Kisses laws and lefty grandstanding by media, special interest groups, opposition politicans would most likely see these guy spend little time in jail, and when they get out they would be given a welfare cheque, housing and Canadian Citizenship, cause Canada does not send criminals back to their homeland in Afghanistan where the chance of torture or death is likely.


0
Barry ORegan

I say let their own country deal with them, after all who are we to chastise another culture and their way of doing things, especially when we let them practice some of their barbaric traditions when they are living in Canada, certainly smacks of hypocrisy when they can do it here in Canada, but we scream bloody murder when they do it in their own country.

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Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke

The issue is one of removing foreign nationals from the country they committed the crime in,  I think  we are probably bound at letting Afghanistan deal with them.  Our job according to the UNSC mandate is to support Afghan authority (interim gov)

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First Flagged at 3:51 AM, Nov 26, 2009 by Rhonda J Mangus
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