After Maastricht now Lisbon, the future of the EU is at stake

by Paschen | May 11, 2009 at 05:21 am

826 views | 73 Recommendations | 17 comments

By, Uwe Paschen.

The E.U. and its future.

I have always been a strong supporter of the EU and even of a European Central Government, however lately I started having my doubt about the whole matter and mainly after doing some rather extensive reading and studding in particular the Treaty of Lisbon.

The German Constitutional Court has been and still is important for the future of European integration.

Its decisions brought about the adoption of fundamental rights as a necessary ingredient in European integration (resulting in the Charter of Fundamental Rights).

The Bundesverfassungsgericht now eyes the political rights of German and EU citizens in relation to the (proposed) powers of the European Union.

The German Constitution may be too narrow to allow the Lisbon Treaty or further steps without change, but for those who think that more EU powers are needed in crucial questions the other side of the coin is that extended powers require corresponding democratic legitimacy at European level.

The main problem here is the discrepancy of power due in part to WWII guild feelings by the German Government, compromising the rights of its own citizen and their say with in the EU.

For instance Germany contributes the largest portion of the EU budged and yet has the least to say with in the EU, and this even though it has the Highest Population of any EU country and the highest GNP as well as GPP.

To a point that the EU could not exist with out Germany as a member, however it could exist and function much more effectively with out Great Britain, France, or even Poland as members.

Why the German Constitutional court believes this treaty to be unconstitutional with in the German constitution and that it would discriminate against German Citizen making then pay the tab, however have little say with in the EU.

The German Government does not want to let the people vote for the European Lisbon treaty by referendum, wish is again in conflict with the German Constitution and may render the whole treaty to be annulled as we had to do with the Maastricht treaty earlier and what broth into life the present Lisbon Treaty.

Even though German is being the languish spoken by most European as a Native languish as well as being the one spoken most as a second languish in Europe followed by Russian, it does get the least consideration with in the EU and this is now being challenged by countries like Austria and Switzerland. However the German Government remains silent and this the Constitutional courts believe is another issue where the Government acts against the interest of the people and does not fulfill it function to wish it is bound.

Even though some argue that the treaty does support representative democracy, wish it should. It does not do so in manners of rights and duties, since the bill will still be paid by Germany for the largest part and it would still get the least back from it, all-by having the least to say with in the EU's Founding members, even though it has the highest population and highest GNP as well as GPP.

This is why the constitutional court in Karlsruhr wants to deal with the Lisbon treaty and determine whether it can even hold up against the German Constitution, wish does not seem to be the case so far.

As far as I can see today and from what I understood after reading the Lisbon treaty, it is far from being fair to all members and gives the UK, France and Poland way to much powers and discriminates against others, such as Germany, Austria and the Eastern Countries of the EU.

I would have to say we need to vote against the Lisbon treaty and force our politician to go back to the drawing table and come up with a good and fair treaty for all of Europe, that is dynamic and takes into account changes that will no doubt come over the next century.

We need a constitution that is better then any constitution that has ever been ratified in Europe and not a cheep compromise to keep the UK and others happy.

I say, even though I support the EU fully and want it to succeed and prevail as well as grow.

Dismantle it if needed and start over with the Funding nation Build a proper constitution first that all European can be proud of and that the World Nations would want to copy for them self. Do not make false compromises here nor play with the rights of our citizen.

This is the EU we are talking about and it future, we need to get it right for the sake of all generations to come. We need to strive for the highest standards and not some bad compromise.

Voting against Lisbon may be the wiser choice in the long run.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/JOHtml.do?uri=OJ:C:2007:306:SOM:EN:HTML

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_European_Union

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

http://ec.europa.eu/index_en.htm

http://europa.eu/index_de.htm

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Rob Walker

at 05:43 on May 11th, 2009

Good opinion piece Paschen!

Amy Judd

at 11:09 on May 11th, 2009

I had no idea that Germany contributed the largest amount to the EU budget, but I am sure that history is playing such a large role here. If Germany wasn't the previous home of Hitler and Nazism, they would be looked upon so differently I'm sure.

Not that I am saying this is fair at all, as even though history is important, I believe it can't define a nation of people now and that it might be time to look to the future and not backwards.

Good piece.

albertacowpoke

at 12:46 on May 11th, 2009

Part of it has to do with Germany's past, but it also has to do with the power of the German economy. For decades now, Germany had the leading economy in Europe. I would think, although haven.t researched it, that Europe probably works on some equalization formula just as Canada does.

The language issue is interesting. It's amazing that the Austrians and Swiss are taking the battle for German language recognition. The language of commerce is English and I believe the European Parliament uses English and French as official languages.

I agree that the Lisbon document has to get it right, because once such a document is in force it will be extremely hard to change it. The US and Canadian constitutions are examples of how difficult a change can be.

I will be looking forward with great interest to see how the Bundesgerichtshof in Karlsruhe deals with this issue.

Paschen

at 16:56 on May 11th, 2009

I think you are correct to some extend, Germany and Germans do feel guilty still today and why they tent not to defend them self, however the UK and Poland especially do rob it in and use it shamelessly to some point. The danger here is that the People know this and supported it for a time, however they are having enough of it and want this to stop. Germans are waking up again and no longer afraid to say that they are proud t be Germans. At least that is the impression I am getting since 2006.

albertacowpoke

at 17:07 on May 11th, 2009

Paschen I started going back to Germany in 1966. At that time the guilt was deep and of course all the propaganda shows were out then too. I left in 1969 and didn't come back until 1974. The German self-esteem had improved significantly. It improved a lot over the next few years, at least in West Germany. After the fall of the wall and reunification, self esteem really rose. They have always prided themselves as an economic power house (Wirtschaftswunder).

The guilt of the holocaust will live with them for a long time to come.

I saw their first emanzipation as a new German nation when they beat Hungary in 1954 to win the World Cup of Soccer in 1954.

All this to say, a little collective guilt is good, because it will probably prevent events like that reocurring.

albertacowpoke

at 18:31 on May 11th, 2009

I couldn't agree more. Thanks for this Paschen.

Patricia Turo

at 19:13 on May 11th, 2009

Just to clarify some things.

ec.europa.eu/education/languages/languages-of-europe/doc135_en.htm

The European Union has 23 official and working languages. They are: Bulgarian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Estonian, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Irish, Italian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Maltese, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Slovak, Slovene, Spanish and Swedish.

Due to time and budgetary constraints, relatively few working documents are translated into all languages. The European Commission employs English, French and German in general as procedural languages, whereas the European Parliament provides translation into different languages according to the needs of its Members.

Read the whole text on the above web site for more information.

Switzerland is not a member of the EU. As of the last vote on March 4th 2001, 77.3% of the people voted against joining the EU.

It is a member of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) and Schengen Agreement

Switzerland does have several treaties with the EU, but the Swiss Franc is the official currency of Switzerland.

German is an official language of Switzerland as is French, Italian, and Romanish. In this case it is not surprising that they would support the German language.

Membership requirements

ec.europa.eu/enlargement/enlargement_process/accession_process/criteria/index_en.htm

Economic and political conditions are the main criteria for membership in the EU. At this stage, it is unlikely that economically they could dissolve, as they are economically integrated and dependent. This was one of the main reasons that the EU came into being. Europe’s concern was their ability to compete in a world market as independent states.

There is a formula for the % of the economy that determines the member states contribution to the EU budget. Germany being the largest economy in Europe contributes the most. This is an economic decision that is worked out by the EU Administration based on the size of the economy. Germany, France and the UK are the largest contributors.

Look on Wikipedia for Budget of The EU and a breakdown of the budget State by State and how it is constructed.

We owned a company in Germany and had both older people who remember WWII and younger people. There was a remembrance among some of the older folks, but to a large degree the younger people have little connection of the events during that period except history. There is still some argument about the extent of history taught in schools about this period. But then that is also true in Switzerland.

Paschen

at 20:49 on May 11th, 2009

I stand corrected 23 instead of 19 official languishes in deed.

The debate of Switzerland becoming a partial or full member is still open and yet they do voice their opinion rather well even though not being a member yet.

I gave the links to the budged break down and to the accord as well as to how the powers are broken down. I would rely on the EU official web sites here and not on subsidiary web sites.

i beg to differ with you, the youth does remember rather well and their been pounded with it not only in school but in news papers and on TV in politics and with every memorable event. Even in Film and Art they can not escape remembering.

I favour the vision of the funding Fathers of the EU, "Europe has to go all the way to the Ural and include Russia and all of Europe. "

Patricia Turo

at 00:13 on May 12th, 2009

I would never say never about Switzerland joining the EU. It is always a possibility but as of right now it is not on their agenda. Where Switzerland has treaties they voice their opinion, but not in the politics of the EU. Switzerland would have to give up their neutrality position to be part of the EU and this is a key point. It will be a continuing discussion for sure in Switzerland.

As for the expansion of the EU, I believe it will grow and most countries in Europe will participate. Many however still are having a tough time meeting the economic conditions necessary to meet the EU requirements (even some current members). I do think it is in their interest to participate. Every country must tests the compatibility of decisions with their own constitution-as does the German government.

Cultural and nationalistic issues play a big roll in the way decisions are made and the EU (having learned this at the beginning) has now done a good job in dealing with economic and political issues that effect them as a whole, and the decisions that effect each State are left to them to deal with. This is important if they are to benefit from a union of this kind.

As for the language issue, I pointed it out because English is an official language.

Our company was located in the heart of what once was Nazi country, where the SS trained and Goring had his private hunting grounds. They don't live with this period of their history on a day to day basis. They are very hard working and have a lot of pride in their achievements. But it is clear that history will live with them as it does with other countries with jaded pasts. These things should never be taken out of our memory.

I agree that anything the EU does must be better then what has existed before. The EU is still a "a work in progress" and hopefully as they grow they will make better and better agreements.

158

at 18:30 on May 12th, 2009

Great story.

EU is not perfect but it is the future of Europe, like it or not.

And in time it will improve.

burmareview

at 22:25 on May 12th, 2009

I don't agree with your view. Rubbish suggestions.

Paschen

at 22:44 on May 12th, 2009

Interesting comment in deed "burmareview"Sadly though, not much to go on. I was going to send you a PM to thank you for you profound insight, however, you blocked that part.

jazzyzazzy

at 04:39 on May 15th, 2009

I am glad the future generation of Germans are no longer binded by past atrocities I.E. Hitler.It has been a long time coming but better late than never.

jodevizes

at 09:46 on May 25th, 2009

An interesting take on the situation and one I had not thought about. I disagree about the UK having a large say in things as they came quite late to the table. Of course I am not party to the machinations of Brussels but apart from the rebate that we get, but lose if the treaty goes through, I think we have no more power than anybody else.

Personally I say a plague on all their houses and would withdraw from that corrupt cesspit. I think if a light were to be shone on all the allowances and expenses claimed by MEPs all the good citizens would rise up and Madame Guillotine may rule the streets once more.

As a loose trading club it works, but trying to impose laws dreamed up by people with too much time on their hands and a large salary to justify it is a failure. Common agricultural policy and the fishing quota are two areas that make a nonsense of the place.

Paschen

at 18:06 on May 25th, 2009

Thank you for the comment. If you take a look at the voting power in Brussels and do the math based on Population and GNP, the UK, France and Poland have more voting power then Germany, Hungary and Italy for example.

Further looking at GNP and GPP with total Population for each nation the German pay the most to Brussels and get the least back. Where as Poland pays the least and get the most for instance. Similar for Portugal and Greece.

All those numbers and calculations are publicly available true the EU web pages.

The Fishing quotas are more due to environmental concerns then due to economic once and they will get more severe in the near future.

Agricultural policies have had both, very positive results and impacts for all members as well as very negative once. Over all though, European Agriculture is in better health and shape then the North American Agriculture is today.

Babel-Fish

at 20:48 on May 27th, 2009

EU is supposed to be built on a democratic platform and for me it would be a problem to see that the German citizens would have more say than any other citizens on the direction EU is pointed in. Clearly that would be wrong.

I have been against the EU since its formation and had always wished that UK had never gone so far into its jungle of blue, red and green tape. I have seen my country sold without the full authority of its people that have been constantly hoodwinked and rode other by traitorous elite politicians seeking means of further corruption methodologies to line their pockets.

The fact that countries such as Germany mentioned in your article do not wish to have a referendum on the very important issues concerning the forever formation of the union makes my blood boil. Its the wish of the people that count and not the elitist that have taken over the steering wheel for their own gains in a underline society that appeals to their corrupted tastes.

If Germany did have more say it would be good reason for countries that did not to split away from a union that had lost it democratic intent. Eventual that could happen as the citizens really start to wake up at the sham and the cons of the sham.

Your doubts may or could be formed on patriotic selfishness mine on a lack of true democracy and seeing what paths the greedy elite are taking and riding rough shot over the people they wield control over in contradictorily to the fact they should be servants to the people. France in fact is the only country that holds the key to stop the German elite steps to dominated EU.

UK is the fly in the ointment and the US spy with its foot in the door. that was intended as a joke but when I think about it maybe it is not, lol

To me having Germany dictating to Europe would be seen as an extent of World war II as the political extension of taking control of Europe. But not the total vision of Hitler and the NAZI party, but never or less an German Elitist aim. Be careful what you wish for...

So I will leave you with some questions, why should Germany be in control of the EU? If they were would that be seen as a democratic situation or a dictatorship of Europe?

Paschen

at 11:49 on May 30th, 2009

Thank you for the comment Babel-Fish. I do understand your sentiments here, however the main question here is democratic rights and one Citizen equal one vote, not some special formula giving some disproportional powers.

The resentment or rather reservation you bring up against the German could be broth up all the same against the UK, France, Spain, the Netherlands, Poland or Italy since all have been Empires and oppressed as well committed some great injustices onto other peoples and nations. All, most mentioned here have also prior to WWI attacked Germany and caused for great injustices.

As you know your self History is a chain reaction of causes, effects and counter reactions. Louis the XIV of France attacked Germany with out warning and annexed Alsace and Lotrigen, wish cause a counter war some two decades latter. The area went back and forth 7 times since then the last time after WWII when France annexes it again.

As Napoleon was the evil of Europe, it was mainly the German and the British that managed to bring him down and stop this madness. Why today the EU is a great foundation to build on for a lasting peace and to avoid Imperialistic thinking and actions, such as committed by most of Europe's Nations, the UK, France, Poland, Russia, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Germany, Austria and Sweden being the greatest culprits in that matter.

All, have taken part in genocide and crimes of war over the course of their history and none is innocent of wrong doing. Most have evolved into this sort of aggressive behaviour due to the simple fact that their own existence was at some point threaten such as by the Roman, the Vikings, the Huns, the Arab invasions that took place through out Europe's history and made the British as well as the French and the German into warrior by necessity and they became aggressor's out of fear to be overrun and exterminated them self, believing that as long as they would have the upper hand they would be safe, not realizing that this form of injustice created the very enemy that would rise against them as well as they did once against their own oppressor.

The only way to peace, justice and equality as well as unity for all European is through a Federal system that is truly democratic and representative.

I am German Citizen as well as French and Cameroon's Citizen, yet, I am first of all Prussian and our history has been wiped out as well as our country and our languish and culture, by the Germans, the Poles and the Russian. All this in spite of Treaties and agreements that after reunification and peace signed with Russia Prussia would be returned to the Prussian and that Poland and Russia will have to give the territories back to Germany and the Prussian.

Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and even Montenegro and Serbia have all regained their autonomy and many more not mentioned here, we did even create Israel.

However Prussia was wiped out completely. Through out our history we did many good deeds for Europe along with some mistakes, We welcomed all refugees from France and Germany as well as the Netherlands in the 16s century that where persecuted by the Catholic church and Catholic governments, We protected Philosophers that went against their King such as Voltaire, Pascal, Kant. Prussia was the first to fully integrate the Jews into society with equal rights, The Prussian Officers of the Wehr Macht tried to assassinate Hitler as well.... Nevertheless All have taken part in destroying Prussia.

We have nothing to lose any longer, nor to gain by a strong Germany or a strong UK, however we are best of with a strong Europe and a just Europe, that is truly democratic and Federal, with a representative democracy, not some unequal powers due to special interest groups.