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America isn't a theocracy, and more bigotry against gays
At a 2006 hearing on a proposed Maryland ban to prohibit gay marriage, Jamie Raskin, professor of law at American University testified against such a ban. At the end of his testimony, Republican State Senator Nancy Jacobs said: "Mr. Raskin, my Bible says marriage is only between a man and a woman. What do you have to say about that?"
Raskin replied: "Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution. You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."
This is exactly right, we aren't a theocracy and we don't base our marriage laws on the religious beliefs of anyone, including the religious righwing.
The fact is, the religious rightwing still have a lot of power in America. In Tennessee, a school public school assistant principal terminated a gay pride event, because he believes that it promotes gay sex.
The religious rightwing can't form any actual arguments against marriage equality for gays, so they have to equate same sex marriages to marrying farm animals, trees or small children. This excellent column in Slate takes on the many problems with the slippery slope arguments. Gay marriage should be opposed or supported based on its' own merits. I wonder though those who say gay marriage will lead to new type of marriages, would they have used that to oppose interracial marriages? But of course they would have.
Bernie Goldberg, no liberal, takes on the bigotry of the religious rightwing head on in this interview by Bill O'Reilly. He stated:
"There’s something that needs to be said, no matter how uncomfortable it may make some people who are listening to us: There is a strain of bigotry — and that’s the word I want to use — running through conservative America. "It doesn’t mean that all conservatives are bigots or even that most conservatives are bigots. That’s not what I’m saying. There’s a strain of bigotry, and it goes against gay people, for instance. Ellen DeGeneres did nothing wrong. She’s gay. Reasonable people may disagree on gay marriage. That’s fine. But to call on somebody’s dismissal, to be fired, to lose her job because she’s gay is bigotry."
He also pointed out the strain of bigotry on the right against black people in the 1960s. I myself would state that more specifically, the rightwing of that time (no matter what political party) that was to blame was the religious right-wing. They opposed the right of women to vote a century ago and have opposed all progress throughout our nation's history. Goldberg said he is sick of this bigotry, so am I.
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anonymous comment (not verified)at 14:26 on May 30th, 2012
If the swearing to uphold the Constitution stands by itself why swear on the Bible to do so. Apparently the Bible holds some importance. Conversely, if swearing on the Bible is meaningless swearing to uphold the Constitution is equally meaningless. Taken to it's end swearing to abide by anything becomes equally meaningless. Swearing to uphold the law, the marriage ceremony, civil contracts, etc., etc., all meaningless when predicated on the promise of the given word. Our word becomes meaningless as we search for ever more excuses to escape the responsibilities associated with any promise we make. Of course Obama a progressive liberal just recently came out in support of gay marriage. I guess that proves only the extreme right-wing oppose gay marriage now. LOL.
at 14:32 on May 30th, 2012
They swear on the bible to appese theocrats like you. They swear on it to appease the religious right, and to a lesser extent, religious moderates. There is no constitutional or legal or moral requirement to swear on it, just as in Turkey I am sure, there is no requirement to swear on the Quran. The fact is, the statement by the professor was about swearing on the bible to uphold the Constitution. So your point has nothing to do with my column.
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anonymous comment (not verified)at 16:06 on May 30th, 2012
Raskin replied: "Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution". Apparently the " professor " believed that swearing on the Bible was pertinent in validating swearing to uphold the Constitution. You in your confusion use the professors remarks to state erroneously that, " [ and we don't base our marriage laws on the religious beliefs of anyone ], including the religious righwing." Actually, our civil laws, including civil marriage, are founded in Judeo-Christian Law. There being a couple billion people world-wide who share such belief. The religious right-wing not being the determining factor in Judeo-Christian belief. Your argument that the reason "They swear on the bible to appese theocrats like you. They swear on it to appease the religious right, and to a lesser extent, religious moderates." Is equally erroneous. First because I hold no religion and secondly because the history of swearing on the Bible to affirm the given word has nothing to do with appeasing the religious right. Then in the next paragraph you begin with a quote which claims conservatives are bigots. Not all perhaps but some. Never attributing the same to liberals, suggesting no liberal holds such opinions. So I point out that Obama, chief representative of the American progressive liberal, has only just recently come out in favor of gay marriage [just prior to an election] having stated earlier he held the opinion that marriage was a social contract between man and woman alone. So my point has everything to do with your article. My points simply address your errors of assumption and the material you have chosen to support that assumption to further your constant hate attacks on those other than "liberals".
at 16:48 on May 30th, 2012
They are no such thing. Nothing, absolutely nothing about your Jude-Christian law is in our government. We are a nation founded upon the Enligtenment. YOur law persecuted gays, atheists and those of other religious beliefs. Your law commanded people to have no other gods. Your law stated it was ok to enslave other tribes and rape women from those tribes. Your law is a disgusting, horrible and amazing stupid set of laws by a sky god who would make Stalin look like Mr Rogers.
Frankly, I don't give a damn about your bogus religious beliefs. They are absurd and idiotic.
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Anonymously commenting (not verified)at 18:25 on May 30th, 2012
Yawn. Once again I have no religion and I am not defending any religion. I'm defending the right of others to be free from the ridicule of those like you who only propagate hate. "We are a nation founded upon the Enligtenment." LOL. The age of enlightenment spanned 1650 to 1700 and time has proven that the post-modernist view of "the enlightenment" is anything but enlightened. This nation wasn't founded until the end of the Revolutionary War in 1783 and our greatest minds at the time were in furious argument with the European Enlightenment. Further, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson followed the doctrines of deism. Most colonial-era Americans, including the enlightened New Englander John Adams, contended that most women lacked the necessary intellect or emotional make up to deal with political issues. The majority of the signatories of the US Constitution were slave holders. By 1791 when the original 13 states ratified the Bill of Rights, they all treated sodomy as a criminal offense. This is your enlightenment. LOL. Those aren't my laws jack ass. They are your laws enacted and defended by your enlightenment. LOL. Normally I wouldn't respond to your garbage but, you profess your hate to be " humanist". As a true humanist I feel duty bound to protect the humanist philosophy from tired, petty, hateful ignoramuses who don't have the simplest most basic understanding of what it means to be a humanist in the first place. People like you who only use the term humanist as a rock from under which to cast their hateful rhetoric against anyone who thinks differently than them. Humanist are committed to free inquiry and who see the value of social systems that promote liberty, we encourage the maximizing of individual autonomy. In this context, we support such freedoms and rights as religious freedom, church-state separation, freedom of speech and the press, freedom of association (including sexual freedom, the right to alternate family structures), a right to birth control and abortion, and the right to voluntary euthanasia. We do not use our thinking on these subjects to ridicule, demean or persecute in any fashion those who haven't adopted our understanding. Humanism is not a tool to bludgeon those who think and believe differently. You are not a humanist. Not anything remotely like one.
at 19:16 on May 30th, 2012
You idiot, there's no right be free from ridicule? How in the hell do you think there is some right to be free from ridicule? That is maybe the stupidest thing, of all the stupid things you have even written. Second the Age of Enlightenment didn't end in 1700 the whole Founding Fathers were part of that age, though a later part. I don't know where you learned history. Deism by the way, is a belief popular among the Enligtenment, though it had its' origins before the age.
YOu are a humanist? Really? For a humanist you are a hell of an apologist for the Pat Robertson's of the world. I have never read or met a humanist who talked like a quasi member of the Christian rightwing.
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Irony (not verified)at 19:45 on May 30th, 2012
Maybe you should stop now Gerry. This guy kicks your arse in every argument. And every post you make further illustrates your hatred for religion and intolerance of those who practice it. You are starting to sound a tad fascist yourself.
at 20:21 on May 30th, 2012
Don't you have some witch to burn?
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Irony (not verified)at 22:52 on May 30th, 2012
Thats your retort? LOL! of course in your world people are either religious extremists or enlightened like yourself. no middle ground is allowed, thats your "tolerance" you are so proud of. I am not religious either btw. I just happen to be free of the blind hatred that ensnares you.
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anonymous comment (not verified)at 21:51 on May 30th, 2012
1/ Your ridicule is a cheap mask for your expressed hatred of those who don't share your beliefs. It's blatant discrimination. And everyone deserves protection from hate and discrimination based on their belief's. Your comments to me do not answer but project that hate further. 2/ Your suggestion that a comment of mine posted here defends Pat Robertson, who is not mentioned in your article, or that I'm defending the Christian Right are equally absurd. Equally absurd is your suggesting that the Founding Fathers being part of the Enlightenment and held Deist belief's disproves their complicity in instituting the unenlightened social and legal foundation of a independent United States that included sodomy as a crime, women too stupid and fragile to cope with political realities to vote responsibly, slavery as an institution, and codifying religious freedom in the Constitution as an inalienable right of the people. 3/Then there is the illogical contradiction posed by you that the base laws set down by the Founding fathers are simultaneously 'enlightened" and disgusting, horrible and amazing stupid set of laws and "my laws" thereby making me personally responsible for the enlightened Founding Fathers war with native Americans, their tribal enslavement and the rape of women from those tribes. 4/ Some how against your own hate filled rantings; the Founding Fathers who were conservative, Republican, and who held religious beliefs were 'enlightened". While today's conservatives, Republicans, and person of religious belief are beneath contempt and worthy of your incessant hate filled ridicule. Apparently the immensity of that ideological conflict has you tied to your unreasonable hate filled rantings against what you yourself hold as 'enlightened" thinking.