Appeal for Cuban Five Heads to US Supreme Court

Paschen, I just want to add that the US Coast Guard is one of the biggest supporters of Brothers to the Rescue program; and that the Comandos F4, who consider itself a "military", conducted a mock "Military Drill" as part of a military exercise to capture Fidel and Raul Castro, here. Very interesting!

You are very welcome, Paschen! There is no doubt in my mind that it can be interpreted to mean that the US is harboring, supporting, and helping terrorists in its "war" on Cuba.

Strange case. Seem a little paranoiac.

Does this mean that the US is harbouring, supporting and helping Terrorist? I suppose so.

Thank you Rhonda.

You are very welcome, Cypresso! Thank you for reading, commenting, and for the recommendation!

Hello,

May be you're right. Sounds paranoic, but it's one of the most illustrative stories about the US-Cuba conflict.  In order to prevent terrorists attacks against people, hotels and factories in the Island, Cuba sent those man to infiltrate right-extremist groups in Florida.

The were caught and must be treated as agents of a foreign State, but not spies, because they do not harm US military nor other interest.

The trial was a mess. The venue took place in Florida, full of  prosecutorial misconduct, improper and discriminatory selection of the jury and biased by the media.

When you have a predisposed judge or jury, when these brave man were confined tho the SHUT for more than 17 months. When there is a wife (Adriana) not allowed to visit his husband (Gerardo) in jail for ten months.... Yes, may be sounds paranoia, but they are just people caring about justice.

Thanks for your oppinion.

spy |spī|noun ( pl. spies)a person who secretly collects and reports information on the activities, movements, and plans of an enemy or competitor.• a person who keeps watch on others secretly.

The Cuban exile groups that you are denouncing as terrorists have as far as I know never been found guilty of being such.  However, many of those exile groups members are US citizens and as such if they are being spied on by foreign agents then yes, that makes those foreign agents spies.  Spies that were tried, convicted, and sentenced for espionage. 

Is the US judicial system flawed?  Yes.  Is it better than what you or I would receive if we had engaged in those same activities in Cuba?  Absolutely.  The fact that an appeal is even a possibility for the Cuban 5 is a concept that in a Communist Military Dictatorship like that of the Castro brothers is a complete oxymoron. History tells us that anyone who is convicted of spying on Cuban soil is executed.  End of story.

Senor Adventure, thank you for reading and commenting. I would like to direct your attention to a story I did almost one year ago entitled, Cuba: A New Era. In the comment section of this story you will also find links related to US Political Prisoners and US Citizen Travel to Cuba that you might find interesting.

Rhonda,

All of the progress you cite in that article is good news, but it still points to one central fact about life in Cuba or any other communist dictatorship: the only rights that the people have are those given to them by the government and those rights are subject to revocation at any time.  Contrast that to democracies such as ours where our civil liberties are guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.  Do abuses of the system ever happen despite our constitutional guarantees?  Certainly they do, but when they do they are aberrations to the system, not the status quo such as in Cuba or North Korea or in any other totalitarian regime left or right.  

However, none of that is core to the central theme of this discussion: Are the Cuban 5 spies and did they receive a fair trial?  In my estimation, yes and yes.  Yet despite my opinion and the opinion of a jury of 12 they were fortunate enough to have been lawfully tried, convicted, and sentenced in a country with an appeals process where even hostile foreign nationals are permitted to question and have overturned the governments case should they be able to prove their own counter-case to a panel of judges.  The irony is that those 5 spies were conducting their espionage activities against a country where their basic human rights are protected, but in the service of a government where basic human rights are non-existent.

Senor Adventure, thank you again for sharing your thoughts related to the Cuban 5. The reader is always free to decide for him or her self with the information available to him or her. In this case, I reiterate:

"The Cuban Five’s mission was to stop terrorism

For more than 40 years, anti-Cuba terrorist organizations based in Miami have engaged in countless terrorist activities against Cuba, and against anyone who advocates a normalization of relations between the U.S. and Cuba. More than 3,000 Cubans have died as a result of these terrorists’ attacks.

Terrorist Miami groups like Comandos F4 and Brothers to the Rescue operate with complete impunity from within the United States to attack Cuba—with the knowledge and support of the FBI and CIA.

Therefore, Cuba made the careful and necessary decision to send the Five Cubans to Miami to monitor the terrorists. The Cuban Five infiltrated the terrorist organizations in Miami to inform Cuba of imminent attacks.

The aim of such a clandestine operation by the Cuban Five—at great personal risk—was to prevent criminal acts, and thus protect the lives of Cubans and other people."

"—at great personal risk— "  I agree.  Those spies took a risk by spying on US citizens and when they were caught they were lawfully tried, convicted, and sentenced for their illegal activities. Now they can lawfully appeal their convictions in court.  If unsuccessful they will lawfully rot in prison for their crimes and I am sure that all Americans will rest better knowing that another 5 criminals will no longer be on the streets to do any other US citizens like you or I any harm.

As for what those spies motivations were and whether or not the Miami Cuban groups you cite are terrorists organizations is completely irrelevant to their criminal case.  What is relevant is that in the United States spying on US citizens is a criminal act.  When foreign spies are caught breaking that law they go to prison.  In Cuba they go before a firing squad.

Senor Adventure, thank you again for sharing your thoughts. I would like to direct your attention to an article in the International Herald-Tribune (April 2008) entitled, U.S. prison population dwarfs that of other nations. I would also like to direct your attention to US Political Prisoners and Prisoners of War.

Senor Adventure, I would also like to add that according to a publication by Amnesty International (April 2008), "Cuba Ceases Fire, for Now", Cuban President Raul Castro commuted all death sentences to 30 years to life in prison, except for three accused of "terrorism".

In the United States, although extremely rare, death by firing squad remains an option for death row inmates in Idaho, Utah, and Oklahoma.

Rhonda,

Unfortunately this is too often the case in discussions such as this.  What began as a talk about the guilt of the Cuban 5 spies has morphed into a discussion about the US penal system, POW's, and death by firing squad.  Sadly much of what you directed me to I was already aware of and I concur, it's a damn shame.  However, none of that is core to this thread: Were the Cuban 5 spying on US citizens?  So far you, most everyone else here, our court system, and I agree that yes they were.  Yet somehow in your eyes that's OK.  Why is that?  Because they weren't spying on white Anglo Americans like you; they were spying on Americans of Latin descent like me.  I'll direct you to George Orwell's ANIMAL FARM where a central theme of the novel is that all animals are created equal, but some are created more equal than others.  The problem with that way of thinking is that in this democracy we either seek to protect all of our citizens equally or eventually all of our rights are so degraded that we lose them all.  

As for the abuses and hypocrisy that are mentioned in your comment about the US penal system, POW's, death by firing squad, or a thousand other daily misuses of power, I say that instead of using one wrong as justification for other wrongs we should all fight together to stop them all.  Beginning with protecting the rights of law abiding American citizens to gather without the threat of being spied on by hostile foreign governments.  I know you call my Cuban brothers terrorists because it's politically expedient and because it's a charge that once leveled is largely indefensible.  What I'll say about that is this.  If they are terrorists that's a crime to be prosecuted by our government in the open light of court, not by the illegally infiltrated agents of some hostile rogue nation.

Senor Adventure, thank you again for sharing your thoughts. However, with all due respect, one of my pet peeves is people who assume they know what I am thinking or, even worse, put words in my mouth.  I am also unsettled by people who believe that they speak for a group when, in fact, they only speak for him/her self. I am also deeply troubled by people who attempt to censor information necessary to think intelligently on a given matter. 

At no point have I indicated in any way, shape or form that I believe that the Cuban 5 are guilty. The information is put before the readers in order that they may decide for themselves.

Rhonda,

I stand corrected.  You never said they were guilty.  What you did say on January 31st was,                                                                                                                 

"Therefore, Cuba made the careful and necessary decision to send the Five Cubans to Miami to monitor the terrorists. The Cuban Five infiltrated the terrorist organizations in Miami to inform Cuba of imminent attacks...  The aim of such a clandestine operation by the Cuban Five—at great personal risk—was to prevent criminal acts, and thus protect the lives of Cubans and other people."

So you never use the word guilty, however, you used the words monitor, infiltrated, inform, and clandestine operation in it's stead.  Crafty, but intellectually dishonest.  I suggest that in order to be intellectually honest you should start a new thread.  I'll suggest some possible Topic lines for you:

*When is it ok to spy on American Citizens?                                                                  *Should we allow American citizens to be spied on and by whom: the FBI, CIA, NSA, Joseph McCarthy, 5 agents from a hostile foreign nation?                                               *Is the Bill of Rights for everyone or just people like me?                                         *When are monitoring, infiltrating, informing, and clandestine operation not really spying?

You further stated, "I am also deeply troubled by people who attempt to censor information necessary to think intelligently on a given matter."  In truth what I have done is state my position in a thoughtful, articulate, and respectful manner that challenges you to - THINK!

Senor Adventure, thank you again for sharing your thoughts.  Not only did I never use the word guilty, I never used the words monitor, infiltrated, inform, and/or clandestine operation.

Again, the information is put before the readers in order that they may decide for themselves.

Also, if you haven't already, I would also suggest that you visit my NowPublic Channel, here.

Thanks!

Rhonda,

You did use those words monitor, infiltrated, inform, and/or clandestine operation in your January 31st post. 

This reminds me of the BIG LIE theory: "a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously".

Rhonda CROSSCHECK before you deny.

BTW I just might go and check out your NowPublic page.  Should be a hoot.

Senor Adventure, evidently it wasn't clear that the posted quote is from the sourced highlight. Nevertheless, I again thank you for sharing your thoughts!

No, it wasn't clear.  However, what is clear is that by citing that quote you are in agreement with that quote.  If you will follow the hyperlinks I attached to the words monitor, infiltrated, inform, and/or clandestine operation in my previous comment you will find that in a military context they all have very nasty definitions.  And since the government of Cuba is a Communist Military Dictatorship, we have to - for the sake of our citizenry - keep the 5 Cuban spies imprisoned for what they were doing, spying.

Senor Adventure, please re-read my comment of Febr. 10th. Thanks!

Rhonda,

It's too bad that unlike me some people won't commit themselves to a position.  My position is clear.  Any foreign nationals - in particular those of a hostile Communist Military Dictatorship - that engage in: monitor, infiltrated, inform, and/or clandestine activities against our fellow Americans on American soil are spies and should be tried, convicted, and punished as spies.  What's your position?

My position is that your position is quite clear! Thanks!

If I were an objective reader reading our posts I would have to concur with you, my position is quite clear.  Your position, not so much.

Senor Adventure, I would like to think that most (if not all) readers are able to ascertain both positions.  A link to the USA Patriot Act that I thought you might find interesting. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!

Rhonda,

Not sure why you would send me a link to the Patriot Act, except maybe to further cloud this debate in non-relevant tangents.  I would like to direct you now to an essay by George Orwell entitled: Politics and the English Language.

In the future when you are tempted to dance around issues with carefully written words and phrases you will at least know that there is a cost to you and the rest of us for doing so.

Senor Adventure, I sent you the link(s) for the reason that you are seemingly intent on demonizing Cuba for acts that occur against Americans, on American soil, and under the guise of 'Democracy'.  I look forward to reading Orwell's essay and thank you for providing it here. Thanks again for stopping by!

Rhonda,

I am disappointed in you.  All I've done is state my position on the 5 Cuban spies, and attempt (unsuccessfully) to have you do the same.  

Sorry you feel that way, but I do thank you for sharing your thoughts!