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'Breaking the Silence' on 22-Day War
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by rebelsyell | July 23, 2009 at 12:02 am
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In the face of mounting International pressure, Israel continues to denounce allegations of human rights violations during its 22-Day War against Hamas in Gaza launched in December ‘08. A series of hard-hitting reports in the last month from independent International human rights organisations clearly reveal incidents of blatant disregard for the human rights of the Palestinian community in Gaza during 'Operation: Cast Lead'.
These three reports, carried out byThe Red Cross, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch respectively, are believed to be precursors for a UN Report due in September headed by South African jurist Richard Goldstone.
Whilst they were all dismissed by IDF and Israeli government authorities as mere pandering to Palestinian sentiment, the latest report comes from within their own establishment in the form of ‘Front Line’ troops who actually served during the 22-Day pummeling of the Gaza Strip enclave.
The Organisation in question is known as “Shovrim Shtika” (Breaking the Silence), who have recently released a booklet (7/15/09), entitled ‘Soldier’s Testimonies From Operation Cast Lead Gaza 2009’ which gives numerous substantiated testimonies by Israeli soldiers who actively participated in Operation; ‘Cast Iron’. “Breaking the Silence” founded in 2004, is an organisation comprising of Israeli veteran soldiers who served in Palestine since the Second Intifada (Sept. 2000). Their principle objective is to offer the Israeli public and global media an alternate ‘Front Line’ view of the true realities of Israel’s involvement in the Gaza Strip.
In producing this report, “Breaking the Silence” has strenuously attempted to portray the contents as more than just mere disgruntlement from within the military ranks and dispel IDF counter claims that their members represent nothing more than a few ‘bad apples’. The highly revealing testimonies contained within, vividly expose the discrepancies between the official IDF press line to the world on military restraint during their combat operations and what actually transpired on the ground in Gaza during ‘Operation Cast Lead’. In total, this 133-page report contains some 54 testimonies from 30 individual Israeli soldiers, who were actively on the ground during the ’22-Day War’. These testimonies lend considerable weight to previous global media and Independent Organisation’s allegations of ‘unlawful’ practices during the onslaught. In an overview of the report’s findings, “Breaking the Silence” spokesman Mikhael Mankin said;
"The testimonies prove that the immoral way the war was carried out was due to the systems in place and not the individual soldier.....................What was proven yesterday is that through the IDF the exception becomes the norm, and this requires a deep and reflective discussion. This is an urgent call to Israel's society and leadership to take a sober look at the foolishness of our policies."
The main areas highlighted for concern by ‘Soldier’s Testimonies From Operation Cast Lead Gaza 2009' include;
- The permissive use of by the IDF of so-called "accepted practices",
- The wanton destruction of hundreds of homes, private property and mosques,
- The indiscriminate firing of phosphorous gas into densely populated areas,
- The wide scale killing of innocent Palestinians
- An inherent ‘laissez-faire’ moral attitude, which existed within the upper tiers of the IDF’s command structure, that was allowed to manifest itself and precipitate down through all military ranks.
Read my full review of this report on http://www.therebelsyell.com
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Most RecentMost Recommended Comments (9)
at 01:23 on July 23rd, 2009
However we must never forget the Hamas atrocities also firing rockets into areas populated with innocent civilians. Also remember who started the problems seen. Both sides are equally at fault all ways have been and always will. Its always the innocent that suffer.
However the reality is Israel always retaliates more brutality and their war crimes are much more horrific. This will be the way as long as Israel sees it self in defense and the need to ward enemies away with sheer force and brutality. All and evey think concerning this constant struggle is completly unacceptable. But always remember it takes more than one party to be at war.
at 02:14 on July 23rd, 2009
The group "breaking the silence" is in fact a left-wing, anti-Zionist organization funded by outside interests interested in discrediting the IDF. With that said, the facts are that only one so-called soldier that was so-called interviewed identified themselves. In fact the ONLY one that did was not even in Gaza and admitted that it was only hearsay.
This is not to say that in a war some soldiers behave against the code that I am personally familiar with as a former IDF soldier. There are instances not widely reported in the mainstream media where monies stolen, or property damaged by soldiers were fully reimbursed and the soldiers punished. But I am beginning to think that you all are not really interested in these facts.
The "human rights" organizations mentioned have constantly spent most of their efforts trying to discredit and exaggerate Israeli actions. MANY of which have been proven to be fabrications and/or lies. Therefore it is very hard to sort out fact from fiction. Everything is not black and white as you would like to believe. It is also been noted in the press that some of these organizations have recently gone to Saudi Arabia soliciting money and using their critical agenda against Israel as fodder for their case. Hmmm. something smells rotten here.
I also take STRONG issue with Babel-Fish in his off-the-cuff response that " Israel always retaliates more brutality and their war crimes are much more horrific." I find this to be uncalled for and unsubstantiated. I also think that it is slander and unproved. Just a knee-jerk response to the propaganda and narratives that have been put out there for an already responsive audience all too willing to make Israel the devil. So easy to blame those damn Jews for everything?
I expected more from you.
at 02:25 on July 23rd, 2009
you said" These testimonies lend considerable weight to previous global media and Independent Organisation’s allegations of ‘unlawful’ practices during the onslaught. In an overview of the report’s findings, “Breaking the Silence” spokesman Mikhael Mankin said;
That is the point of the criticism. They are anti-democratic forces with an agenda and want to undermine the system by trying to de-legitimize the Army. As you notice all the bricks are dependent on each other and if one falls the whole house of cards begin to crumble. So goes the NGO's mentioned.
at 08:08 on July 23rd, 2009
Neither was the high number of civilian casualties any accident. This was an intended tactic used by the IDF. Israel used the same tactic with great success in Lebanon in 2006.
Look up Thomas Friedman's column in the NYT Jan.13, 2009 titled "Israel's Goals in Gaza?". Here he informs us that the killing of civilians was "the education of Hizbollah" (and Hamas.)
Now, being one of the zionist's most passionate cheerleaders we must assume that his sources are reliable.
If one bothers to read up on the history of Palestine / Israel, since the1880's it soon becomes clear that Israel wants to get rid of the Palestinians, and that any Palestinian state never was in the zionist's cards.
Hamas was supported financially by Israel in the beginning as a counterweight to Fatah. Google: http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=8449
For a comprehensive book on this subject I'd like to suggest "The Iron Wall" by the acclaimed Jewish historian Avi Shlaim.
at 12:27 on July 23rd, 2009
This is about your professor Shlain from Oxford:
Inside the mind of Avi Shlaim NB: This interview by Meron Rapoport with the Baghdad-born, Oxford-based 'new historian' Avi Shlaim (reprinted from Haaretz of 11 August) comes with a health warning. Some of the mindboggling claims peddled by Shlaim are guaranteed to make your blood pressure rise. Please send all complaints to letters@haaretz.com (With thanks:Lily)
Try this for size:
'The Arabs have repeatedly outstretched a hand to peace and Israel has always rejected it. Each time with a different excuse."
And this, Shlaim's version of the 1950 exodus of the Jews from Iraq (his family among them), somewhat at variance with the highly-respected Professor Elie Kedourie's :
"I think - I can't prove it - that there was an understanding between the Iraqi government and the Israeli government. An understanding, not an agreement. Israel asked Iraq to let the Jews immigrate, the Iraqis said: we are not opposed, but the Jews are filling central positions in the Iraqi economy, so Israel said: Leave the Jewish property in Iraq.'
Here are some more extracts:
"Shlaim was born in Baghdad in 1945, to a wealthy family with a magnificent three-story house and 10 servants, including a special servant who went to the market to do the shopping. His father was an importer of building materials, and hobnobbed with the heads of the Iraqi government, including then-prime minister Nuri Said.
"Most of the ministers were customers of ours," says Shlaim. "They used to come to our house and order building materials for their houses. They never paid, but in return they ordered work for the government from us, and paid much more than necessary. That was corruption, but not brutal corruption, as with Saddam Hussein. That was an old Arab political culture, a culture of compromise."
"His mother was connected to the British government. Her father was the British army's head interpreter in Iraq during World War II, two of her brothers served in British intelligence as interpreters, and received British citizenship. That helped them later on, when they wanted to leave Iraq.
"Shlaim describes a home in which Judaism was not an important component of his parents' identity. "Judaism was ritual," he says. "My parents used to attend the synagogue once a year, at home we spoke Judeo-Arabic, we listened to Arabic music. Nor was Zionism important, my parents had no empathy for it. There were Zionist agents who tried to create propaganda, but it didn't impress the Jewish elite and the middle class. There was no tradition of persecution or anti-Semitism in Iraq."
"The first pogrom took place in 1941, in Farhoud, in the context of the (pro-Nazi) Iraqi rebellion against British rule. The real problems began with Israel's War of Independence in 1948, says Shlaim, when the harassment began. The climax came when a hand grenade was thrown into the central synagogue in Baghdad in 1951, "and from that day to this, there have been rumors that an Israeli agent tossed the grenade."
Note how the events of the Farhoud (which killed 169 Jews) are skimmed over in one sentence. Shlaim ignores the Nazification of Iraq, the raft of anti-Jewish legislation and the traumatic hanging of Shafiq Ades. In his zeal to blame Israel for the Iraqi Jews' troubles he echoes the standard Arab propaganda line that one hand grenade tossed by an Israeli agent caused the bulk of the community to flee. He protests that he was prevented from verifying his claim because he was not allowed to see the historical record.
"Out of the 130,000 Jews in Iraq, 100,000 registered, including my father. And then, immediately afterward, a new law was issued, to the effect that any Iraqi who had given up his citizenship was giving up all his other rights, including property rights. My father was sure that he would have enough time to sell his property, but then it turned out that he had lost everything: a house and warehouses and merchandise worth half a million pounds sterling at the time. In the end, he was even forced to cross the border illegally on a mule, because he was the guarantor of the debts of another Jew who had disappeared. I, my mother and my sisters, with our British citizenship, left Iraq on a regular flight to Cyprus, and met up with my father in Israel."
In the very next paragraph Shlaim makes the contradictory claim: "we are not refugees, nobody expelled us from Iraq, nobody told us that we were unwanted. But we were the victims of the Israeli-Arab conflict."
He then describes the pathetic figure of his father, whose refugee experience had left him a broken man:
"Shlaim, five years old at the time, landed with his parents in Ramat Gan. His father managed to bring some money with him, and tried to do business here, but failed. "They cheated him. In Baghdad, if you gave a check and it bounced, you wouldn't show your face again. Here it was a badge of honor," says Shlaim. His mother, who hadn't worked a day in her life, found work as a telephone operator in the Ramat Gan municipality. She acclimated (sic), as did Shlaim and his sisters. They learned Hebrew quickly, although they continued to speak Arabic with their parents.
"He was somewhat ashamed of his father, especially when he would call to him in Arabic in the street, but he didn't dare to ask him not to speak Arabic to him in front of strangers. "He was a broken man, but he continued to dress and to behave like a respectable man, very polite, he didn't interrupt and he was not aggressive," says Shlaim. "He brought with him from Baghdad all the suits that his tailor had sewn for him from British fabric. He didn't have any work, and he would go down to the street, in a suit and an ironed shirt and a tie, and go to the cafes to sit with his friends from Iraq, who also had no work, and also walked around in the street in their suits."
(Rapoport) And did you try to talk to him?
"He didn't talk about Iraq, he was silent. Today I'm interested in his trauma and I'm interested in why he didn't speak at the time. Maybe he spoke and I didn't show any interest. Children, apparently, are not interested in history. He died in 1971."
There follows a not-very-convincing attempt to allege anti-Mizrahi prejudice from his Ashkenazi fellow pupils and teachers: I didn't encounter discrimination, and I didn't feel deprived, but the atmosphere was that anything Ashkenazi was good and anything Arab was primitive. I felt I had accomplished something when I had Ashkenazi friends. I remember that one boy placed his hand on my shoulder and said to me: you're my best friend. I was amazed that he didn't feel that I was inferior."
What are we then to make of Avi Shlaim? How can one explain his Orwellian revisionism of Middle Eastern history? Is he suffering from an Oedipus complex? 'Stockholm syndrome'? Or has he been terminally brainwashed by The Guardian?
Update: two ex-Hebrew University professors respond:
"Shlaim's writing stems from a political agenda that is hostile to Israel, which is typical of the "new historians," rather than from an objective examination of the Israeli narrative. The following story will testify to the nature of Shlaim's attitude toward Israel. A few years ago he, together with Eugene L. Rogan, published the book "The War for Palestine: Rewriting the History of 1948." In the foreword to the book, Shlaim dared to write something to the effect of the following:
In the Middle East, as in other places, history plays a fundamental role in the building of a state, in granting legitimacy to its authority and to its political system. Governments in the region impose direct and indirect authority on the writing of history. The state controls the preparation of history textbooks for the elementary and high schools. The state runs the vast majority of the universities in the Middle East, and the members of their faculties are civil servants. National history associations and government publishing houses serve as filters whose job is to uproot impermissible historical descriptions, and to convince people of the truths that the state is interested in promoting. Since advancement in the academic establishment is closely related to adhering to the official line, historians are only barely motivated by the desire to engage in critical historical writing. Instead, the vast majority of Arab and Israeli historians have written and are writing in an uncritical nationalistic spirit.
The Israeli reader cannot help but react with astonishment to these lies regarding Israel. This entire description is of course valid in relation to the Arab countries, but in Israel the situation is the opposite: The government does not run the universities, their faculty members are not civil servants and their advancement is not dependent on their writing according to the wishes of the government. A failure to distinguish between the situation here and what is happening in the Arab countries is strong evidence of Shlaim's willingness to use lies and invective as long as he can achieve his goal, which is to denigrate Israel. It is unfortunate that this man is becoming such a leading figure in the eyes of Israeli journalists."
Update 10/10/07: An interesting insight from a commenter on Harry's Place who knew Shlaim at school:
Let me try to explain from what and from where Mr. Shlaim's hatred for all things Israeli, and more deeply, all things Jewish, may stem from.
In 1961, I, as a recent immigrant to England, started attending the JFS Secondary on Torriano Avenue in Camden Town. I was one of two non-English-born "foreigners" in the School, a 15-year-old Jewish boy from India; the other was an Iraqi-Israeli, Avi (Abe) Shlaim.
We were different from the others, so we became fast friends especially as we lived close by to each other, I with my family, and he with the Principal of the JFS, Dr. Conway.
We played the same sports, did the same subjects, and usually went home together. This went on for three years!
From the first day I knew him it was obvious that Abe absolutely HATED Israel. His family, well-to-do in Iraq, but forced out by the Baathist regime (so he said) were now just another family of Mizrahim, Sephardic Jews, in Israel, where, truth be told, they were never the equals of the Ashkenazim. But Abe never blamed Iraqi politics for this demeaning drop in status; he blamed the establishment of the State of Israel! The argument then, as now, being that if Israel did not exist then there would have been no massive disinterrment of Jews from the Arab countries, where they had lived in Dhimmi peace, but in peace, for centuries.
Abe's hatred for the State of Israel would show itself in his constant reiteration of the mantra that he would rather die than go to the mandatory, and in those days a universal badge of honor, service in the IDF.
As for his hatred of Jews; he was living in the home of the Conservative-Orthodox Principal, yet he took every possible opportunity to decry that; he would never wear his school cap, would laugh at kosher (admittedly not exactly revolutionary among us at the time) take every opportunity to desecrate Sabbath. We all did these things, but for Abe it was always a personal vendetta, like sneaking a Wimpy hamburger into a kosher home after telling us that he was going to, and then repeating what a forbidden thrill it was to eat it in his own room, half-hoping he would be discovered so he could "have it out" with his host.
Abe went on to read History at Cambridge; I the same at Sussex. We did not keep in touch, although I did hear that he was being groomed for the Israeli Diplomatic Service.
I never heard of him again until he started writing his books when it became abundantly clear that the Abe Shlaim I knew had become the Avi Shlaim I didn't want to!
So, protect your kids from themselves, and teach them well. The books they write as adults will nearly always be prefigured in their childhood loves and hates!
Posted by: eliXelx at October 10, 2007 10:24 AM
at 12:18 on July 23rd, 2009
Here is an answer to "Not verified"
Arab responsibility for Palestinian refugees
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
"The radio stations of the Arab regimes kept repeating to us: 'Get away from the battle lines. It's a matter of ten days or two weeks at the most, and we'll bring you back to Ein-Kerem [near Jerusalem].' And we said to ourselves, 'That's a very long time. What is this? Two weeks? That's a lot!' That's what we thought [then]. And now 50 years have gone by." [PATV, July 7, 2009]
With these words an Arab resident of a refugee camp recounts the reason why his family left Israel in 1948, in an interview broadcast on PA TV this month.
Click here to view the interview on PA TV
In recent years, Palestinian leaders, writers and refugees have spoken out in the Palestinian media, blaming the Arab leadership for the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem. According to these accounts, and contrary to the Palestinian myth that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were deported by Israel in 1948, the vast majority of the Arab exodus from Israel was voluntary, and the result of orders by the Arab leadership.
Furthermore, the fact that this information has been openly discussed by public figures and refugees in the Palestinian Authority media itself suggests that awareness of this responsibility may be widespread - even though Palestinian leaders continue to blame Israel for "the expulsion" for propaganda purposes.
The following statements in the PA media shed significant light on the events of 1948 and counter the attempts by the Palestinian Authority to hide this part of history.
Click here to view the Palestinian testimonies on PMW's new web site
1. Arab resident of refugee camp: "This picture was taken a week before we left Ein-Kerem [near Jerusalem] in June 1948, in front of our house. The radio stations of the Arab regimes kept repeating to us: 'Get away from the battle lines. It's a matter of ten days or two weeks at the most, and we'll bring you back to Ein-Kerem.' And we said to ourselves, 'That's a very long time. What is this? Two weeks? That's a lot!' That's what we thought [then]. And now 50 years have gone by." [PATV, July 7, 2009]
Click here to view this interview on PA TV
2. Jawad Al-Bashiti, Palestinian journalist in Jordan: "Remind me of one real cause from all the factors that have caused the 'Palestinian Catastrophe' [the establishment of Israel and the creation of the refugee problem], and I will remind you that it still exists... The reasons for the Palestinian Catastrophe are the same reasons that have produced and are still producing our Catastrophes today.
During the Little Catastrophe, meaning the Palestinian Catastrophe, the following happened: the first war between Arabs and Israel had started and the 'Arab Salvation Army' came and told the Palestinians: 'We have come to you in order to liquidate the Zionists and their state. Leave your houses and villages, you will return to them in a few days safely. Leave them so we can fulfill our mission (destroy Israel) in the best way and so you won't be hurt.' It became clear already then, when it was too late, that the support of the Arab states (against Israel) was a big illusion. The Arabs fought as if intending to cause the 'Palestinian Catastrophe'." [Al-Ayyam, May 13, 2008] 3. Mahmoud Al-Habbash, Palestinian journalist in PA official daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida: "The leaders and the elites promised us at the beginning of the 'Catastrophe' in 1948 that the duration of the exile would not be long, and that it would not last more than a few days or months, and afterwards the refugees would return to their homes, which most of them did not leave only until they put their trust in those "Orkubian" promises made by the leaders and the political elites. Afterwards, days passed, months, years and decades, and the promises were lost with the strain of the succession of events..."
[The term "Orkubian" invokes Orkub, a figure from Arab tradition who was known for breaking his promises and for his lies.] [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Dec. 13, 2006] 4. Asmaa Jabir Balasimah, woman who fled Israel in 1948: "We heard sounds of explosions and of gunfire at the beginning of the summer in the year of the 'Catastrophe' [1948]. They [Arab leaders] told us: The Jews attacked our region and it is better to evacuate the village and return after the battle is over. And indeed there were among us [those who fled Israel] those who left a fire burning under the pot, those who left their flock [of sheep] and those who left their money and gold behind, based on the assumption that we would return after a few hours." [Al-Ayyam, May 16, 2006]
5. Ibrahim Sarsur, Head of the Islamic Movement in Israel:
An Arab viewer called Palestinian Authority TV and quoted his father, saying that in 1948 the Arab District Officer ordered all Arabs to leave Palestine or be labeled traitors. In response, Ibrahim Sarsur, now Arab Member of Israeli Parliament Knesset, then Head of the Islamic Movement in Israel, cursed those Arab leaders, thus acknowledging Israel's historical record.
Viewer: "Mr. Ibrahim [Sarsur]: I address you as a Muslim. My father and grandfather told me that during the 'Catastrophe' [in 1948], our District Officer issued an order that whoever stays in Palestine and in Majdel [near Ashkelon - southern Israel] is a traitor, he is a traitor."
Ibrahim Sarsur, now MK, then Head of the Islamic Movement in Israel: "The one who gave the order forbidding them to stay there bears guilt for this, in this life and the Afterlife throughout history until Resurrection Day." [PA TV April 30, 1999] Click here to view this interview on PA TV
6. Fuad Abu Hajla, senior Palestinian journalist:
Fuad Abu Hajla, then a regular columnist in the official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, wrote an article before an Arab Summit, criticizing Arab leaders. One of the failures he cited, in the name of a prisoner, was that an earlier generation of Arab leaders had "forced" them to leave Israel in 1948.
"I have received a letter from a prisoner in Acre prison, to the Arab summit:
To the [Arab and Muslim] Kings and Presidents: Poverty is killing us, the symptoms are exhausting us and the souls are leaving our body, yet you are still searching for the way to provide aid, like one who is looking for a needle in a haystack or like the armies of your predecessors in the year of 1948, who forced us to leave [Israel], on the pretext of clearing the battlefields of civilians... So what will your summit do now?" [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, March 19, 20
at 06:03 on July 26th, 2009
Wow, that was quite a tirade against Prof. Avi Shlaim! But that should be expected from that quarter (Haaretz - Israeli media). He is not the only "new historian" who got into trouble for exposing the content of recently (80's) declassified documents pertaining to Palestine - Israeli history. His fellow historian Ilan Pappe had to flee Israel fearing for his life. Prof. Benny Morris recanted his views of the events in Palestinie during the last century and got to stay in Israel - unmolested it seems.
I can not see why the fact that Avi Shlaim was born in Iraq should detract from his integrity as a historian. O.K., I realize that him being of Oriental origin makes him inferior in the eyes of the elitist Ashkenazis. - (Check out YouTube for the view of another Sephardim, search : Naeim Giladi - 11-07-94)
Neither can I figure out why the rumor that he is supposed to have consumed non-kosher hamburger, or the fact that his father owned many suits should affect his integrity as a historian. The fact is that in the 40's - 50's the world was fed a lot of disinformation about what actually took place around the "birth of Israel". That is why it is highly inconvenient for Israel that these historian have gone and made their findings public.
I suppose this character assassination of Avi Shlaim is an example of how the Hasbara apparatus works. You toe the line, or you'll be the victim of ridicule, slander and vilification.
It seems that many Israelis are employed in sowing spin here on the net. Google : Jonathan Cook+Web Warfare Team Unveiled - Most interesting.. Also: giyus(dot)org - wujs(dot)org(dot)il and thejidf(dot)org for starters. Subscribe to Information Clearing House(dot)info, and over time you will find a lot of interesting stuff. This gives us an idea as to the extent of this apparatus. This must be the reason for the massive flaming that you often encounter if you dare to critisize Israel on the net.
This verbal abuse is intended to intimidate you into shutting up.
In addition there exist fifth columnist known as Sayanim everywhere to assist Mossad in their dealings internationally. - Google it.
tikun - Regarding your quotations by Palestinian refugees etc., chaos must have been widespread among the Palestinians in 1947-48, so there are bound to be a lot of different recollections (and fabrications) about this tragedy, but it is very easy to find evidence of indiscriminate killing, rape, looting etc. carried out by the Israelis/Jews against the Palestinians.
Now for the view of a former Israeli Foreign Minister, Shlomo Ben-Ami on the events that led to the present refugee problem. Here are some excerpts from a debate on Democracy Now! that he had with Amy Goodman and Norman Finkelstein in 2006.
"We have prevailed over the invading Arab armies and the local population, which was practically evicted from Palestine, from the state of Israel, from what became the state of Israel, and this is how the refugee problem was born".
In his book he admits to "intimidation, and at times atrocities and massacres is perpetrated against the civilian Arab population". "A panic-stricken Arab community was uprooted under the impact of massacres that would be carved into the Arab's monument of grief and hatred".
Now comes the interesting part: "....among them you mentioned Avi Shlaim, but there are many others that have exposed this evidence of what really went on on the ground. "And I must say that the difference between what they say and my vision of things is not the facts. The facts, they are absolutely correct in mentioning the facts, and putting the records straight". So according to this ex Israeli Foreign Minister, Avi Shlaim, Ilan Pappe, Baruch Kimmerling, Uri Milstein et al are just "putting the records straight".
He should know, being a former "insider" mr. Ben-Ami ought to have had access to all and any records.
Another subject that came up: we normally hear that it was the Palestinians that broke off the peace talks at Taba. Now we have it straight from the horses mouth; it was the Israelis, led by Ben-Ami and Barak that pulled the plug.
He also makes another interesting statement in this intreview: "Camp David was not the missed opportunity for the Palestinians" and "if I were a Palestinian, I would have rejected Camp David as well". For this interesting debate, go to: Democracy Now! and search: Shlomo Ben Ami+Norm Finkelstein.
I see that the spindoctors are employing, among others, computer litterate demobilized IDF personnel. Just out of curiosity, are you one of them?
at 11:09 on July 26th, 2009
Not verified, you said"(Haaretz - Israeli media). He is not the only "new historian" who got into trouble for exposing the content of recently (80's) declassified documents pertaining to Palestine - Israeli history. His fellow historian Ilan Pappe had to flee Israel fearing for his life."
Haaretz is a left wing newspaper and is the last place for government spin. Ilan Pappe left because he no longer wanted to live in a Jewish and Zionist State. His prerogative. No one in this country forced him to flee. Of all places on this earth Israel is about the most tolerant for extreme positions then any country I know of.
The men you so proudly hold up as the beacon of truth regarding the Middle East are all well known anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist politically. Finkelstein just loves to lie, scam and fudge the truth. He is in the camp that believes it is okay to lie about the facts as long as it enhances your objectives. These folks are a minority voice with little to show for it except a peanut gallery of left-wing operatives that love to grab on to anything or anyone that wants to de-legitimize the State of Israel.
at 07:43 on July 28th, 2009
Tikun - I know that Haaretz is a so-called "left wing" paper. However I can't fail to notice that if anyone makes statements that are not favourable to Israel, all of your media, including Haaretz usually goes for the jugular of the "offender".
I think most people living in civilized counties would consider leaving if a popular columnist told his readers: "I'm not telling you to kill this person, but I shouldn't be surprised if someone did", and you were the target of this threat. Or you, like Prof. Pappe, find your photograph in the center of a target in a local paper. Or you receive death threats by mail or by phone.
As for your allegation that Israel is a tolerant country, I beg to disagree. Check out this story: "Missionaries under threat i Israel", USA Today, 06/22/2008. This concerns a family of Messianic Jews that received a booby trapped package that injured the family's son. One of several incidents of this nature. That does not sound very tolerant to me. Neither does; "Hundreds of New Testaments torched in Israel" CNN, May28, 2008. That reminds me of what the German author Heinrich Heine said nearly 200 years ago; "Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings". It took the Nazis about one decade to go from burning books to burning humans. In Israel it took only a few months. Where Hitler used zyclon-B, IDF favored the use of white phosporus.
As for your remark about Finkelstein, well, he did not say that much during the intreview that I was refering to. Most of the interesting stuff was provided by your former Foreign Minister, Shlomo Ben-Ami. I guess that makes him anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist as well. Or could it be that these persons that you are trying to vilify are just honest Jews with a conscience?