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British Columbia Bars' plan to scan IDs might violate privacy laws: Rights Advocates Charge
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by Barry Artiste | October 22, 2008 at 06:53 am
482 views | 10 Recommendations | 11 comments
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Barry Artiste Op/Ed
With the rash of violence and murder resulting from bars, scanning everyones identification before entry, may give a potential troublemaker or violent offender second thoughts before committing assault or murder, if it can prove through identification scanning that they were at the crime scene.
Again, the Lefty Nancy Rights advocates are whining that it violates a persons rights to scan their identification, par for the course in a province with on of the highest murder and assault rates per capita in Canada.
But then of course, one knows full well these Righteous Turd Burglers of the Left Wing of British Columbia have never been a victim or received a phone call in the dead of night to come to the morgue to ID their loved one, a loved one, out celebrating life unbeknownst to them, it would be their last night on earth.
Until this province gets their act together, stop releasing repeat offenders and put them behind bars, with some you throw away the keys, identification scans for Bar patrons is a last resort to safeguard the safety of their patrons.
If it were up to me, I would like to drag these lefties by the scruff of the neck and bring them to a morgue where the latest teen was murdered and make them watch the autopsy, as well as meet the parents, such as the parents of a dead girl who was at a Vancouver nightclub a year and a half ago, who tried to help an assault victim and being the good samaritan that she was, got a deadly gunshot to the face for her efforts.
http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=174bbc4e-1c7f-449f-bd29-01bdfddb0df0
Bars' plan to scan IDs might violate privacy laws Similar Vancouver, Nanaimo programs already being investigated
Sandra Mcculloch, Times Colonist
Published: Wednesday, October 22, 2008
B.C.'s privacy commissioner is investigating whether the practice of having bar patrons run their drivers licences through scanners at the door violates privacy laws.
If David Loukidelis rules that the Bar Watch program breaks the law, a program proposed for Victoria could be shut down before it gets going.
Loukidelis could also shut down existing Bar Watch programs in Vancouver and Nanaimo, and bar owners in those cities would likely be ordered to destroy databases full of their patrons' personal information.
A ruling is expected in a few weeks. Bar Watch is a program endorsed by bar owners and police and aims to reduce violent incidents at bars by documenting who enters the premises and who causes difficulties.
But privacy advocates are unhappy with the concept.
The privacy commissioner in Alberta in February banned collection and retention of data from bar patrons' drivers licences, saying the act violated privacy laws.
Alberta bar owners appealed and were allowed to continue the practice until a judicial review in Calgary on Dec. 18.
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Barry Artiste
Vancouver, Canada
Most RecentMost Recommended Comments (11)
at 07:23 on October 22nd, 2008
There's a gaping hole in that plan, though: it's useless against fake IDs. The only ones actually affected are law-abiding citizens, whose movements are now recorded into a database (for how long? how secure? who has access? etc) whilst those really keen on causing trouble are not affected.
For example, let's use a situation that actually occurred in Vancouver: say a guy patronises a gay bar, though he's in the closet. Now he his in effect "outed" to anyone with access to that database. Meanwhile, someone intent on causing violence at said gay bar will stroll in with a fake ID and a weapon, and let's be honest: no way are doormen at good at spotting fake IDs... any and every underage drinker will tell you that.
Emotionally, I see why people would be in favor of such a law, but practically it's a non-starter. A hallmark of a free society is freedom of movement, and recording one's daily activities is a rather large inroad into that freedom, with no credible benefit.
at 17:52 on October 22nd, 2008
Surely Jordan, if one has an offenders ID and the police come on the scene, the bar can pass on a copy of the id in this case say a drivers licence, with full description, including his home address. Fake IDs could be a problem, but photo id at least gives a description, including height, most valuable to police.
Granted, some could be harmed by it, such as a gay person, but in Vancouver? Maybe Calgary, but I would like to think Vancouver is beyond that, as the recent gay bashing and media story on the guy. We need to show ID in some cases when using a credit card, to buy alcohol, we are in more databases than you realise.
i think it is a good thing, especially is one knows that someone knows who they are. Thanks for your side though,.
at 12:13 on October 22nd, 2008
There are a few bars like this in Nanaimo, even if someone were to use a fake id, the bars here will still take your picture before you go in. So there is still a record of you being there, its just a litlle harder to find it if your using a fake id.
I don't like the idea of people keeping records of where I've been, its kinda creepy, so I try and stay away from these bars. I'll only going if theres a show I want to catch. When I want to go to the bar I just head to the cambie, they dont scan id's there... most of the time they wont even check it :)
at 13:12 on October 22nd, 2008
Yeah, in that case, it's not a very effective law-enforcement technique: with just a photo and no other verifiable info, they'd kind of have to already know who you are (in which case the ID becomes redundant), or hope that a cop is lucky enough to run into you while holding your mugshot. Marginally more effective in a small town, but not at all in a big city, especially since police tend to be overworked as it is.
The upshot of all this is that you cannot effectively track citizens' movement if they don't want you tracking them.
at 17:55 on October 22nd, 2008
Well they profile customers by the way they dress anyway, some ban people if they feel your new pimpin duds are gang associated. I still see no harm in it. I would like to think Bars have better things to do than to go through scans to see people for jollies. I think with the rash of shootings and fights in bars and the courts inability to incarcerate repeat offenders that it has now come to this 1984.
at 20:37 on October 22nd, 2008
Thanks Luiz for stopping by.
at 21:18 on October 22nd, 2008
Barry Artiste, I like this story. It's good stuff.
at 05:59 on October 23rd, 2008
Thanks Rhonda for visiting, much appreciated
at 13:03 on October 24th, 2008
Although I refuse to go to any bar that scans my Id I see no problem with it as it is completely voluntary. Owners of bars who want to participate take the risk of losing the patronage of customers like me. No one is forcing people to patronize these establishments so vote with your pocketbooks if you disagree.
at 21:32 on October 24th, 2008
I agree, and if I went to a bar that didnt scan ID, I would pass it on by, safety has to be more of a concern then whether or not they take it seriously enough to safeguard their patrons, like you say, they will answer with their pocketbooks.
at 12:29 on November 17th, 2008
I believe that the practice of scanning ID's is a very good practice and should be upheld by the courts. There exisits a plethura of legislation in effect that would limit the use of such information for purposes that would be seen as less than ethical. For instance, the disclosure of this information to law enforcement in order to profile certain individuals would be illegal as it would be in contradiction of the purpose the information was collected. The collection of personal information has a varity of procedures associated with it including disclosure that it is being collected, why its being collected and the right of the individual to refuse its collection. The bar has an obligation to disclose the aformentioned information and to keep personal information collected confidential and protected. If after being told that ID's were being scanned and personal information was being collected fior the purposes of proteting patrons a citizen doesn't want thier Id's scanned then they don't have to entyer the establishment and bars don't have to let them in.