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College Is a Waste of Time
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by generaldecay | August 15, 2008 at 12:12 am
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As a measure of worth and ability, I have to agree that the current one-dimensional higher education system is limited.
Imagine that America had no system of post-secondary education, and you were a member of a task force assigned to create one from scratch. One of your colleagues submits this proposal:
First, we will set up a single goal to represent educational success, which will take four years to achieve no matter what is being taught. We will attach an economic reward to it that seldom has anything to do with what has been learned. We will urge large numbers of people who do not possess adequate ability to try to achieve the goal, wait until they have spent a lot of time and money, and then deny it to them. We will stigmatize everyone who doesn't meet the goal. We will call the goal a "BA."
You would conclude that your colleague was cruel, not to say insane. But that's the system we have in place.
As an eternal student, however, I have to believe that education (and the more the better) is worthwhile.
Outside a handful of majors -- engineering and some of the sciences -- a bachelor's degree tells an employer nothing except that the applicant has a certain amount of intellectual ability and perseverance. Even a degree in a vocational major like business administration can mean anything from a solid base of knowledge to four years of barely remembered gut courses.
And I'm wondering if a blend of degree qualifications and certifications is more sensible than the author's suggestion that we have no degrees at all.
The solution is not better degrees, but no degrees. Young people entering the job market should have a known, trusted measure of their qualifications they can carry into job interviews. That measure should express what they know, not where they learned it or how long it took them. They need a certification, not a degree.
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Most RecentMost Recommended Comments (40)
at 01:19 on August 15th, 2008
generaldecay, I like this story. It's good stuff.
I always advocated reform and major reforms in the educational system as it is today, it is in most cases a waist of time and resources, that is just handing out titles such as MA, PHD, that in many cases have no meaning what so ever and are merely a title to give a person a certain social standing a bit like our old Monarchies with they Lords and Counts, Money to go spend some time in University write a PHD about the Rain bow and then excel in society and Politics with out actually having evolved intellectually!
Keeping certain power houses or Families in power, that is all it is to some extend!
at 01:26 on August 15th, 2008
I can see what you're saying, Paschen, but I don't agree that titles such as MA and PhD are that easy to come by. I'm finishing off my PhD at the momen, and I can tell you that it's the hardest thing I've ever done! So, while I think that the higher education system is far from perfect, I can't agree that PhDs are meaningless and only a mark of social standing for the already privledged.
at 01:39 on August 15th, 2008
It does always depend on the subject and the country where you write you PHD!
I am not saying that most PHD or MA do not have they merit or deserved status!
In France and in Germany for instance a PHD is a hard thing to accomplish and the Philosophy behind it is so very different then the one in North America.
In North America the PHD student does have coaches and a lot of help as well as guidance and support, to the point that in some Universities it is ridiculous, why Universities such as Western has the nick name Country club.
A Phd in Science is somewhat different then a Phd in Art.
I have read and written Phd teases and some of them are just a joke!
at 01:50 on August 15th, 2008
Right, yes. Although I would be very wary of comparing disciplines in terms of their 'merits' etc. As I'm sure you already know. :)
at 01:57 on August 15th, 2008
Agreed!
at 05:13 on August 15th, 2008
generaldecay, I like this story. It's good stuff.
It seemed to me, after going through this system and even working in it for a while it was all about the establishment getting the smartest people ( most potentially dangerous adversaries ) working for them - that way it would be easiest to keep them under control, especially once the kids were in school, the mortgage payment was due each month, etc, etc ... I know it sounds pretty cynical, but it really seems to me that's the way it works ...
at 05:29 on August 15th, 2008
I'm not sure I follow Emilio, and I want to be clear. You think that members of universities attempt to keep the smartest people around them so that they are of least threat to them and their careers?
at 05:41 on August 15th, 2008
No, no ... not at that level ...
When I refer to the 'establishment,' I mean that lofty source of all blessings, that endless fount of research dollars, big business/big government ... simply put, it's never wise to bite the hand that feeds one, hence life becomes easier for everybody - well, not everybody, it only becomes easier for the ones that matter ...
As usual it's just another case of follow the money ...
at 05:45 on August 15th, 2008
Ah, yes! I knew I wasn't grasping what you were saying. My fault. And regarding your point, you're right!
Edit: thanks for the GS, by the way.
at 05:55 on August 15th, 2008
Yep ... it is what it is ...
IMHO this is a good post and deserves GS !
at 06:04 on August 15th, 2008
Thanks Emilio, that's a very nice thing to say. :)
at 06:23 on August 15th, 2008
Well, sometimes I do screw up and say something that isn't completely terrifying - but I'm trying to improve ... bear with me, please!
at 05:54 on August 15th, 2008
I think home schooling is best. later in life Self study is best. only labs should be available to perform experiment cause its costly, and most homes are not designed to have labs at home. but eventually all homes should have lab designed or to start have labs in buildings just next to laundromat. At present the singel biggest changes i would like to see that it should be mandatory for school children to wear uniform. Many problems will be solved. students and parents will save lots of money not buying desingner clothing. At present students match each other designer clothing and bully each other and they are into finding differences in each other and not accepting each other differences in what they wear and dont wear. Students in school do all sort of crime to buy expensive designer clothes.
at 06:07 on August 15th, 2008
Re. home schooling: what about the important processes of socialisation that take place in schools? What about the importance of peers etc? Also, while home schooling has its merits, I wonder how home-schooled children will ever compete academically or in employment with those who were taught a vast and detailed curriculum by trained educators.
I agree about school uniforms, though.
at 06:25 on August 15th, 2008
I hate to point this out - but what about the important process of dodging bullets ?
at 15:10 on August 15th, 2008
> I think home schooling is best.
>later in life Self study is best.
That depends where the student is going. Want to be a Donald Trump? Go to Wharton. Want to be President? Go to Yale.
at 06:09 on August 15th, 2008
generaldecay, good stuff. I read the article, too, and I think that what it's portraying is a result of the new "college" attitudes. Unfortunately, college has, in many cases, become more or less an advanced certification process for work categories.
What university (or college) traditionally was intended for was to not only educate in a certain discipline, but also educate the student's entire self. The grounding in a wide-based education was intended to, in essence, teach the student how to learn for the rest of his/her life.
I recall engineering students being forced into our mandatory courses on great art and music, moaning and yelling about it. I don't even know if they do that today in colleges. It seems like the process is a straight shoot for some sort of job focus and doesn't "waste time" on things like art, music, the classics, and other things that develop the mind and the ability to reason and learn later in life.
I could go on a rant here! Education needs to stop trying to be a cookie cutter process, one size fits all.
at 06:10 on August 15th, 2008
Ah, that's an interesting take, Pep, and I think you might be right. We never really had the encompassing system of higher education that you had (which, like you say, has engineers learning about art, for example, and I think we would benefit from it. We still have rather a 'cookie cutter' system.
Thanks for the GS and comment. :)
at 06:26 on August 15th, 2008
You're welcome. I wonder, though, even in the U.S., how many students today are compelled to take similiar courses to the music/art appreciation. How many are compelled to study a second language? Or math, even if the degree is in an arts or other field? We darned well were. I managed to get out of the college math requirement for two reasons. The first was that our high school honors class had, basically, already done at least first-year college-level math and science by the time we were graduated. The second was that I chose Latin as my language (I'd studied Latin and Spanish in high school), and their Latin curriculae was very demanding, even for just one year's worth of courses. But even getting out of a requirement meant proving your way out of it with prior performance and other choices!
Frankly, I don't think that college should be "come one, come all." I think basic skills and competency should be required. Let community colleges fill the gap. But by the time a student hits a full, four-year university he/she should have a grasp of basic skills.
at 07:30 on August 15th, 2008
Here, anyway*, I would say that all university entrants have a good grasp of basic skills - the exams etc. that they have to pass before acceptance into degree programmes would make sure of that.
That's not the case in the US?
----
*Pep, I know that you know what I mean by 'here', but in case it is confusing for anyone else, I mean the UK. :)
at 06:30 on August 15th, 2008
A lot of my undergrad work felt like the equivalent of Highlighting without commentary... once I left uni, my degree didn't seem to prepare me for what was out there (then again, I *did* choose poli-sci!). Oddly, Web 2.0 had to be invented in order for me to find something other than the arts in which to be qualified!
I really don't see why TAFE/technical schools are scoffed at by so many people: if you know how to work with plumbing or electronics, you have a real skill that's immediately applicable, and will be for the foreseeable future. A friend of mine is a fibre-optic technician, and his work takes him around the world as though he were a rock star. (To his clients, he IS a rock star)
at 07:34 on August 15th, 2008
Jordan, me too. I'm a psychology undergrad, and I quickly found out that that qualifies me for absolutely nothing! The thing I'm finding now is that many undergrads are by themselves useless, and that graduates need a masters at the very least to be 'job worthy'.
And I agree with you about vocational training. I think it's been it's been tainted by the stupid notion that vocational courses are only for those who 'are just not good enough'. It's a disgraceful notion, but a prevalent one.
at 07:25 on August 15th, 2008
generaldecay, I like this story. "Education to get fit for life struggle?" If you look to America successful entrepreneurs mostly have no degrees, but basic instinct, persistance and adaption to unknown stuations. I agree with Jordan, the most happy situation "tuning in" with a basic education in a future market ( in this case fibre optics ) brings you arround the world, that what a real student should do. Real knowledge is acquired out of the field, university can learn us to learn, if we break the rules, and make what we think is best for our internal desire. Live is an adventure.....
at 07:35 on August 15th, 2008
Solar, I think you're making some very good points here. Education keeps one very closeted, when there are so many more important/ exciting things to do!
at 08:01 on August 15th, 2008
generaldecay, I like this story. It's good stuff.
at 08:03 on August 15th, 2008
Thank you very much, Gharlay. :)
By the way, I was talking out loud (as is my dreadful habit when I'm typing) and I discovered I'm not sure how to say your name. Could you tell me how to prnounce it? Thanks!
at 08:52 on August 15th, 2008
The professor of my first class in college told us that the most important thing a college education could give us was the ability to define problems and to figure out how to find the answers, not the technical things available in upper education courses.
at 08:53 on August 15th, 2008
That's an interesting take. It's not often that professors say something like did that. Did you find it encouraging, Rene?
at 09:00 on August 15th, 2008
I must admit it was 1960. That prof, a PhD and head of the English dept, was probably my most inspiring teacher ever. Another thing he told us about writing and grammar, was that 'Rules were made to be broken, but you must know the rules first." Also that all English grammar rules were based on the writings of great English writers. Interesting, no? especially when you consider Shakespeare.
at 09:08 on August 15th, 2008
Well he was right that there are some really outrageous grammar rules. And if they're derived from Chaucer and the like, then it makes all manner of sense! :)