Disaster: Declaration of Palestinian state without Israel

by YankeeJim | June 19, 2011 at 02:15 pm
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Disaster: Declaration of Palestinian state without Israel agreement

Two parties must agree to peaceful coexistence. A UN declaration in the absence of mutual agreement would accomplish nothing. I really don’t see the UN going in the direction of a unilateral declaration.

“Israeli president: Need for peace deal with Palestinians is 'urgent'

From Matthew Chance and Guy Azriel, CNN

June 19, 2011 2:57 p.m. EDT

Jerusalem (CNN) -- Israel's president is calling for an "urgent" peace deal with Palestinians, saying time is running out for an agreement.

"It is very urgent," President Shimon Peres told CNN in an exclusive interview Sunday. "I think neither side has much time. We have to act dynamically."

The Palestinian Authority has said that, in the absence of peace talks, it will ask the United Nations to recognize an independent Palestinian state in September.

But the 87-year-old Israeli statesman warned the Palestinian leadership not to make a "mistake" of declaring independence outside of a peace deal.

"If you go for a declaration, you have a declaration. You won't have a change in the situation. It's not enough to declare, you have to agree," he said.

Peres told CNN he believes Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government is "trying to arrive at peace."

He repeated his call for a two-state solution, saying the failure to reach a deal threatens the Jewish character of the Israeli state.

"If there will be one state without a clear majority or an un-Jewish majority, that is against everything we are trying to work for," Peres said.

CNN's interview with Peres was conducted ahead of this week's Israeli Presidential Conference, which Peres is hosting for the third time. It will include leaders in industry, government, education, science and entertainment from around the world.

In a wide-ranging speech last month, U.S. President Barack Obama renewed his push for a two-state solution, declaring that the borders of Israel and a future Palestinian state should be based on pre-1967 lines "with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states."

"The full and phased withdrawal" of Israeli security forces from the West Bank has to be accompanied by evidence of a Palestinian state that can help secure peace and prevent attacks against Israel, Obama said.

But, he added, a continued Israeli presence in the West Bank is inconsistent with long-term dreams of a secure Jewish and democratic state. "The Palestinian people must have the right to govern themselves, and reach their potential, in a sovereign and contiguous state," he said.

Ongoing Israeli settlement construction in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, along with Palestinian steps toward a unilateral declaration of statehood, have driven the two sides further apart since Obama took office. Former Sen. George Mitchell resigned last month as the Obama administration's Mideast envoy.

Additional doubts about the viability of the stalled peace process were raised last month after a formal reconciliation agreement between the two largest Palestinian factions: Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' party, the West Bank-based Fatah, and the Islamist group Hamas, which rules Gaza.

Both Israel and the United States consider Hamas a terrorist organization and have voiced strong opposition to the inclusion of the group in any unity government, demanding that it first renounce violence, recognize the state of Israel and abide by all previous agreements.

On Sunday, the district committee for planning and building at the Israeli Interior Ministry approved the construction of an additional room to 2,000 already-existing housing units in the East Jerusalem neighborhood of Ramat Shlomo.

"Only in Israel (is) the extension of one room in a house ... considered news," Interior Ministry spokesman Efrat Orbach told CNN. "These are all existing apartments and now each family is entitled to add another room, should it wish to."

A plan to build 1,600 new houses in Ramat Shlomo, announced during U.S. Vice President Joe Biden's visit to the area in March of last year, caused a rift between Israel and the United States.”

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1
World_Groove

"Disaster: Declaration of Palestinian state without Israel agreement

Two parties must agree to peaceful coexistence. A UN declaration in the absence of mutual agreement would accomplish nothing."

YankeeJim,

I am having a tough time understanding the logic of your statement.

The two state solution was put forth by the U.N. back in 1947, and regardless of all the blood that has been shed on both sides of this issue since that time, there remains only one recognized state in the region, the other proposed and still unrecognized state is steadily being eroded through "settlement" which is not approved of Internationally.

There is a long line of broken promises made to the Palestinian people of this region and what little remains in the way of "land" left to be used to make a Palestinian State is almost laughable in its usefulness and viability. In many ways it is a parallel to the Indian Reservations of America.

We all tend to agree the media paints false pictures and helps form public opinion, but so often decades after a propaganda campaign was started the people of the World start believing these misinformation stories of the past are absolute truth.  We become victims to the "yea.. the media lies, but when they say something I believe, they are telling the truth" way of thinking.

The area is a MESS. Generations of deaths and wrongdoings perpetuated by both Israelis and Palestinians.  Fathers, Mothers, Sisters, Brothers, Uncles, Aunts, Cousins, lives lost by the hands of the opposing side. There is no band aid that will solve the problem completely, but if the UN recognizes the Palestinians right to exist as a State within certain defined regions which fall somewhere between the Original UN suggestions and the later militarily annexed regions (There must be Israeli concessions), It would force Israel to stop building Internationally condemned settlements in Palestine and would take away many reasons for Palestinians to carry out attacks upon Israel as they would have a "future" to dream about and build upon.....A Palestinian State......instead of only a glorified death fighting for the right to exist.





1
tikun

  UN 1947 was two States. One Jewish and the other ARAB. There was no Palestinian State or entity.

Also, world groove needs to spend some time in the region because much of what he commented on is just not correct. Wishful thinking, and maybe media hype but not accurate .


1
The 1

Interesting tikun

..I'm sure most Americans in general know little to nothing of mideast affairs including current this Palestine/Israeli situation. In general, mideast complexities just aren't Americans strongest arguing points.

Whenever we error in these matters, your input would be most appreciated_seeing your bio says you live in Israel.

0
YankeeJim

I admit that there is no continuity or fairness in the UN logic. 

Quote:

NETANYAHU AT HIS BEST

Even those who aren’t particularly sympathetic to Israel ’s Benjamin Netanyahu, could get a good measure of satisfaction from this interview with British Television during the retaliation against Hamas’ shelling of Israel .

The interviewer asked him: “How come so many more Palestinians have been killed in this conflict than Israelis?” 

Netanyahu: “Are you sure that you want to start asking in that direction?”

Interviewer: Why not?

Netanyahu: “Because in World War II more Germans were killed than British and Americans combined, but there is no doubt in anyone’s mind that the war was caused by Germany ’s aggression. And in response to the German blitz on London , the British wiped out the entire city of Dresden , burning to death more German civilians than the number of people killed in Hiroshima … Moreover, I could remind you that in 1944, when the R.A.F. tried to bomb the Gestapo Headquarters in Copenhagen , some of the bombs missed their target and fell on a Danish children’s hospital, killing 83 little children. Perhaps you have another question?”

Apparently, Benjamin Netanyahu gave another interview and was asked about Israel ’s occupation of Arab lands. His response was, “It’s our land”. The reporter was stunned – read below “It’s our land…” It’s important information since we don’t get fair and accurate reporting from the media and facts tend to get lost in the jumble of daily events.

“Crash Course on the Arab-Israeli Conflict.”

Here are overlooked facts in the current & past Middle East situation:


BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT TODAY


1. Nationhood and Jerusalem : Israel became a nation in 1312 BC, two thousand (2000) years before the rise of Islam.

2… Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BC, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand (1000) years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 lasted no more than 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem , they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned even once in the Quran.

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem . Mohammed never came to Jerusalem .

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem .

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews . Sixty-eight percent left (many in fear of retaliation by their own brethren, the Arabs), without ever seeing an Israeli soldier. The ones who stayed were afforded the same peace, civility, and citizenship rights as everyone else.

10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people’s lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel , a country no larger than the state of New Jersey …

13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

14. The PLO’s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel .

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel .

18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives .

20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall."

0
YankeeJim

Tikun has been a strong contributor to NowPublic. He is pretty much our resident expert on Israel, from an Israeli perspective.

For a location that is so small relative to world geography, it surely garners the world's energy. 

The resolution will come from reconciling what Tikun says: There is no such thing as Palestinians, never has been. They are displaced Arabs, by which their former "owners" left them in the lurch.


0
World_Groove

What is accurate and correct? What is accurate and correct in your eyes? What is accurate and correct in the eyes of the World? What is accurate and correct in an opinion that holds opposing views?

The NO Palestinian argument is a common one, as is the empty Palestine argument.

In the 1920's there was a Palestine and there were people living in Palestine, it is common to call a people after the name of the region they live in.


0
World_Groove

Classic! Anonymous unsubstantiated information that made its way around the internet via an e-mail campaign.

If you believe this copy and pasted story as pure fact, I have a few precious items I would like to sell you.... money up front please. 

I might be back to point out at least the obvious flaws in this copy and paste comment, but I am lacking the time needed to do so in earnest this week....

0
tikun

Actually you could say that the people living in the region at that time were Palestinian if it pleases you. However, that means ALL the people Jews and Arabs. Todays narrative of the Palestinian leadership is that there were never Jews living here. Silly of course but nevertheless many people have to much other stuff on their minds to spend the time to ascertain the truth in this crazy part of the world.

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First Flagged at 6:08 AM, Jun 20, 2011 by tikun
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