do sociopaths deserve humane treatment?

by dysamoria | September 21, 2007 at 01:33 pm
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Wednesday, August 29, 2007

do sociopaths deserve humane treatment?

(originally posted on my blog Here)

Yes, sociopaths again. A topic that never dies with me.

Look at it this way: after all those that i've dealt with by way of placing myself into their paths (bosses, for example), isn't it comprehensible that i would be enraged by the latest one seeking me out as a target for his hate?

More specifically, Dave Sewell on flickr (see post below), decided to ban me from a public group on flickr.

This is a man i do not know. i heard a few people complain about his abusive treatment of them. i went to his photostream out of curiosity. i liked his photographs. i complimented him on some by posting positive comments. i never once initiated any reference to the people and the complaints they made against him. Days became weeks... weeks became months. Time passed, without event.

A few days ago, flickr sent me a notice that i had been banned from a particular flickr group. Puzzled, i went to the group to find out which one it was (the title meant nothing to me). i located the name of the person who seemed to own the group and who seemed to be the administrator of it. A Mr. Dave Sewell.

The details on what came next are here.


Now, to get to the meat of this posting... i will restate the title and the question i ask:
Do sociopaths deserve humane treatment?

This may be a little like discussing capital punishment. In fact, it may be VERY similar to that topic. Sociopaths, in the long run, do more to harm society than a wild maniac or two going on killing sprees in schools and businesses.

SHOCK!! HORROR!!

HOW could i SAY such a thing???

Today?? With the purple bruises of the most recent(ly publicized) killing sprees still lingering in our society's collective consciousness... how dare i suggest that a sociopath (one who does not commit acts of physical violence directly to people, mostly) could be WORSE than a bunch of NUTTERS who have BRUTALLY MURDERED people with guns, bombs, knives and the US Military?

Oh, but see, there's the key: The US Military. i know i should start small and talk about supervisors and bosses and CEOs at businesses and corporations, but why don't we skip all the hand holding and go straight to the top: our president, and many of those who carry out "his mission," are sociopaths.

What makes this so horrific is that they have horrifying amounts of power over entire societies. For their own personal gain, to accomplish their own personal ego-reinforcing goals, these sociopathic "leaders" have caused the deaths of ... millions?

Who are those deaths?

1. US Citizens, as part of our military branches.
2. US Citizens, as crippled or suicides in direct reaction to item one above (families/friends).
3. "The Bad Guys" in each of the societies that our "leaders" have attacked with violent force.
4. Innocent Citizens in each of the societies that our "leaders" have attacked with violent force.
5. Innocent Citizens in Our society and Other societies who have been murdered out of suspicion and paranoia, directly fueled by (and often generated by) item three above.

Ok, too large a scale for you? Too big a shot to take on all at once? Tired of the whole "Bush Bashing" thing?

Then let's settle on down to the little fish, as mentioned earlier: supervisors, bosses, CEOs, board directors, primary share holders, etc. at businesses and corporations.

The societal damage done by these people exceeds that done by war alone. War is easy. You pick a target, you blow it up. Everyone can see that. The damage done to a society by one greedy corporate "bottom line" decision to not recall a product unleashed upon society with known lethal potentials is incalculable. Worse, there's that whole "corporate personhood" concept that allows "corporate entities" to get away with passing the buck, displacing and spreading the blame, and scape goating standard protocol. The task of "fixing it" and "getting the bad guys" becomes a job no mere military force can tackle. The people who made the decisions that lead to the hands signing the papers and sending the emails, which lead to the inaction are the sociopaths that ought be held responsible for the damage done to the society (and economy) they claim to service in this "free market." These sociopaths have diffused the focus on the actual issue and its consequences that they seemingly have zero interest in cause and effect. i suspect that disinterest is there simply because they are so removed from actual physical contact with their victims that they are assured it will be nothing more than another casual, daily command to a subordinate. Even the subordinates of the subordinate are cushioned and able to "wash their hands" of responsibility.

Watch how the system works:

"I was just following orders."

"They told me to [do it]."

"The workers were instructed to do what was believed to be in the best interests of the company and its share holders."

"The expense to the company to recall the product and re-engineer it would have been greater than the potential litigation against the company by [the victims of the defect]. The least costly of the two possible actions was selected; it was the right thing to do for the company and it's shareholders."

Look at this language.

There is no person or human element present in the language used (except for the poor schmuck who said "because they told me to").

There is nothing tangible. No focus point. Only a vague entity known as "the company." Not "I", "He", "She", "My", "Her", or "His." Not even an "Our", "We", or "Us."

Those words are chosen very carefully by "the company" so as to enable the aforementioned blame diffusing and the avoidance of culpability. "The company" has become a faceless noun. This allows all of those sociopaths who were the decision makers to continue on as they were without facing charges of negligence or callous disregard. Their names hardly mentioned in relation to the causes and the effects. Their faces unknown. These sociopathic human beings, these people, can slip out of one "company" and into another. Lateral movement. No loss in ladder climbing position (though one could argue that there is also no upward movement since "The Peter Principle" has established their level of effectiveness to be just good enough to float without sinking, but not good enough to rise any higher).

Does anyone notice the difference in language when you compare a domestic dispute a bar brawl, or a car accident to the language used when "a company" is getting attention in the media for something "naughty?"

Once again, there are no people involved. The language is almost as if the events unfolded themselves without a bit of human action. Event without cause. Embarrassment of "the company's image" but no cuffs around any wrists, no matching of injuries to weapons, no blood on the hands of the attackers, no visible wounds on the victims that can be traced back to any human being of any kind.

Does anyone notice the difference in language between the USA and the UK when their respective media talk about "companies?" Corporate personhood is here again to protect the sociopaths from being named and called out.

In the USA, "a company" is not "a group of people." In the UK, "a company" are people.

Pay close attention:

"is not" as opposed to "are not."

Singular, as opposed to collective.

A US company is a singular entity of its own, with a proper noun to identify it. It has a mission, a goal, an attitude and a name of its own. There is no "we" or "our" in a large and aggressive US company. There is no plural. Just as your cat is "Mr. Sniffles who has a cute wrinkle in his nose" instead of "The Sniffles Group which does most of its business in the cough and cold remedy market."

A less silly example: "The Company HAS aggressively dominated the market for energy products. IT will need to be creative in finding new market avenues in order for IT to grow larger and make more profit in coming years." You also have the language examples above...

Elsewhere in the world, when you hear reporting about companies, the plural (original and proper) use of the word "company" is maintained. The company is a collective. A group of people operating under a title or name that identifies a specific organization of individual human beings all working together for a specific goal... whatever that goal is.

Example: "The company ARE doing really well with THEIR new safety system created for high velocity impact car collisions. THEY are saving lives. With minds like THEIRS at work, we're wondering what THEY will do next."

Talking about goals...

It used to be about doing something useful or better, and then being rewarded for the accomplishment because it benefited people or society in general.

Now, however, it seems to only ever be about money. Money is power. Power is control.

Who do YOU want in control of the bus when you are a passenger? Do you want a polite woman who pays attention to the road, other vehicles and the passengers or do you want a big slab of metal that is calculating speed and angles based on getting to Point B as fast as possible because the schedule will be of greater impact on The Company than a few scares, heart palpitations, cuts, bruises and other inconsequential [collateral damage] like... oh... human deaths?

There have been strides to define corporate criminality, no doubt. Here's a reference:


Corporate Homicide: Definitional Processes in the Creation of Deviance
Victoria Lynn Swigert, Ronald A. Farrell
Law & Society Review, Vol. 15, No. 1 (1980 - 1981), pp. 161-182


i don't see much success in this area. Maybe i am focused on the negative too much, but there is a whole shitload of negative out there. Left and right. We're surrounded by faceless entities that get away with actions that an individual would be prevented from doing or punished for attempting, all because of the diffusion of blame and the wider scale of time and dispersion of the effects of a "group think decision" made behind closed doors and executed by subordinates.

Now, i've deviated from the main topic to an extraordinary level in order to show how sociopaths are horrifically dangerous in many hidden ways; i shall now return to that main topic: does a sociopath deserve humane treatment?

If someone walks into the room and denounces your work ethic to a bunch of your co-workers, several times a week, while you're not around to witness it and defend yourself on the spot or call out your accuser to prove his or her statements or back down... you've just been violated. An act of social and psychological violence has been made against you.

"I don't play the victim mentality role. It doesn't matter what people think, just how good a job you do!"

Sorry, but you are just as much a victim as if your boss walked into your office or cubical and pushed a knife into your chest without provocation. Sidelining again, what kind of provocation would justify that response?? Were you socially and psychologically tormenting your boss by spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt among every member of the workplace to the point that your boss was being shunned, joked about, and at risk of losing his life-sustaining income by losing job simply because you felt it was totally harmless to do smart-ass gossiping because you feel intimidated by his work experience?

It matters what people think of you if they control, socially, your accessibility to the pursuit of success, or even happiness.

True Victims do not choose themselves. It is not shameful to be a victim.

Victimizers choose their victims. Most often by way of jealousy and self-esteem issues. They seek those who they feel are not a threat to them. Those they feel they can control or with whom they can control the situation and the perception of events. This is shameful.

True shameful "victim mentality" is justifying your inhumane, cruel and violent actions by saying "He/she did this-and-that to me, so I am responding in kind. If others get in my way, that's just too bad. It's not like I'm targeting anyone innocent."

True shameful "victim mentality" is "I'm going to be rude, cold and judgmental to you because that's what everyone has done to me my whole life. Why should I be sensitive to YOU when no one was sensitive to ME??"

THAT, my readers, is what shameful "victim mentality" is. Point the fingers, and your knives where they belong.

Who's doing the pointing, anyway? In who's best interest might it be to make victimization into something the victim should be shameful and held responsible for?

The victimizers. The one's who have control over the situation and over you. Victimizers are the ones who devised the concept that being a victim is "your own damn fault." It's in their best interest that you be "ashamed for letting it happen to you." As though to defeat rational observation (and discussion) of true cause and effect, they seek to make the effect have no cause but itself.

"You worked with him before, so why would you work for him again if he's so bad??"

Yes, that one is DIRECTLY from my OWN personal experience. The complacent gossipers and the ignorant and naive bystanders trying to cover up the "unbelievable" fact that they have missed something and that they think you want special treatment (or have been getting it). The people who were not (yet) victims of the sociopathic victimizer.

This isn't philosophy. This is concrete reality. This is human behavior on the macro and microscopic level. From the individual to the group mind.

The the most critical concept to understand here is on the macro level:

The more sociopaths are allowed to shape the world around them to best suit their own interests (not the interests of the group, the society or the species), the more damage they do (to the society) and the more sociopaths they CREATE.

You've heard the rhetoric about what growing up in a war zone, or in prison, or being a child of molestation creates: it creates a replication of the stimuli. The victim becomes hardened from constant assaults. A hostile environment creates a defensive individual. Constant exposure to hostility turns defensiveness into hostility. Hostility acts outwardly against those who appear to be the cause of the hostile environment... or maybe anyone... because "HE didn't stop it from happening" and "SHE didn't tell the boss about the gossip about me."

A hostile and toxic environment creates a hostile and toxic person. It can do nothing else. You either harden or you weaken. Those who weaken are frequently used by other people as a comparison or consolation agent; to ease their own suffering or make it pale in comparison. What better way to make your problems pale in comparison to someone else's than by MAKING someone else's problems worse?

Yes, you may think it's all fun and games. Harmless talk. Chit chat. Gossip. Play. Ribbing.

Play leads to exhaustion. Exhaustion leads to lowered stamina. Lowered stamina leads to sensitivity. Sensitivity leads to vulnerability. Vulnerability leads to being damaged by "lesser offenses."

The more damage, the more easily damaged.

Here we are. At the crux:

Human beings exposed to toxic experiences during their developmental stages very often become "rugged" or "tough" as a defensive mechanism. It's automatic part way, but then it also becomes part of the personality. That's when it becomes choice. Many people at this point choose to "take it like a man/woman" and "give as good as they get" ...

.. but on the inside... they're rotting out and becoming a shell of armor which protects a wounded child that never grew up and never learned appropriate and healthy ways of defending or avoiding the toxic and hostile experiences. These people end up with Borderline Personality Disorder.

BPD.

Anyone reading me on a regular basis knows that i struggle with the understanding that those who have abused me have become abusive because they themselves were abused. i empathize with these people because i know suffering well enough. At first, they like this. Later, they feel vulnerable because i see and know too much. Then i become a threat. To their egos. Their "hearts." Their agendas.

A person with BPD still can make distinctions between good and bad behavior. i've seen it demonstrated many times by many people with the condition. They admit to feelings of guilt. The problem is, they feel guilt because they know what they have done is harsh, cruel, rude, or just plain wrong... but they never learned how to empathize with those they have hurt. Most likely, no one empathized with their own suffering as it was forming their defense mechanisms years previous.

But they KNOW. They CAN distinguish the difference. They can CHOOSE to take an active role in their behavior patterns if they see value in it.

The value, ideally, should be "because it's best for everyone."

The value, more often in the real world is "so i can have friends and keep jobs."

It's still a value.

But some people choose an even more selfish and cold value for external self-control:

POWER.

Who wants power the most? Those who feel they have been powerless. Those who have had so much done to them beyond their control.

People with BPD naturally seek connection to and with other human beings. They also defensively seek control. Control over the interactions with others and the perceptions of them by others. If the satisfaction of the human connection eases the fears that demand control, these people can move towards a much better life.

A better path than those who get no satisfaction at all from connection to other human beings.

Anti-social personality disorders. That's what we're talking about. Personalities that work against the collective good and which tear apart the fabric of society and human connection.

When the only motivation left for someone with BPD is to seek power and control over everything and anything... they have stepped into sociopathy.

Is there a road back from sociopathy?

BPD is itself considered a massive and frightening challenge by the psychiatric world. The DSM-IV-TR does not even "want" to consider sociopathy because it is too complex a situation of cause and effect and no one has "an easy solution" or a clear cut delineation between the anti-social personality disorders. Though, it seems pretty clear to me... but i'm not sitting on "The Committee" that determines what will be written in "The Bible of Psychiatry." The book upon which seemingly all doctors of psychiatric "medicine" defer to. The group mind in academia and "The Healthcare Industry " demands deference to this most holy of ancient relics called DSM. Those who use it as it was originally intended (a guide and a reference from which to build study of things) tend to be looked at as refusing to accept DEFINED ABSOLUTES and are shunned by academia and "proper professionals." In fact, you may never get a license to practice your specialized doctorate as a vocation if you don't swear to be held by that book's determinations.

When the politics dictate obedience and subservience to certain rules, process and procedure in order for you to pursue your goals, who is going to actively fight the system if it means they may never accomplish their goal? Even the scientific method is abused this way, why not the "mental health system?"

So, i reduce the great, grand DSM down to what it really is: politics. i say a redundant "fuck you" to the DSM and i continue with my questions to you:

Is there a way back from the brink for a sociopath?

Should energy and time be spent seeking it?

Do sociopaths deserve that effort?

The one thing sociopaths have going against them is that they cannot form solid and meaningful relationships with others. Surface contact only. Usually when people get too close, the real personality shows through the layers of plastic and decorative talk. Then those people move away.

Sociopaths can only work together when they are each doing what each other wants them to do. Kind of crazy, but there's our royal family- sorry, government in action with blowing up children and nurturing hatred for the USA amongst the rest of the world.

You see the damage sociopaths can do en mass?

Our society is at risk from the outside because we have put the outside on such a level of heightened vigilance. The US Government has created worldwide Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

But again... do you execute murderers?

If yes, do you execute sociopaths for the deeper, wider-ranging and longer lasting toxic effects they have on entire social structures?

You try to filter "criminals" out of society, but what do you do about the anti-social people who have no interest in society or who actively seek to control and manipulate it? Do you try to filter them out of society?

Most likely you don't even notice them.

Some of you might be becoming one of them right now... growing harder, colder, more selfish, more power-hungry, more obsessed with control and "having it YOUR WAY."

Maybe you're already one of them.

That's when you choose to vote for charity to known sociopaths: you want to protect your own interests, after all, and if you're found out...

No, i'm not demanding a terrorist report hot-line or a witch hunt. Maybe application of the kinds of psychiatric evaluation done with applicants for childcare work... but for ALL positions of power and influence over others. The more influence and the more power, the more stringent the analysis and evaluation.

But what do you do with 'em once you've tagged 'em?

Do you let them hide their potential for death and destruction behind sweet talk and "pity me" complaints?

Do they even deserve my empathy as having once been human beings who suffered terribly?

Do they deserve yours?

What do you make of yourself if you choose to shun them for what they've done? Does that continue the cycle of violence?

Psychopathic killers can be seen and caged.

Sociopaths...

Like i said: most likely you don't even notice them. But, on some level, you feel their effects. The way you got screwed by the insurance company for giving you the "book value" of your car when some drunk driver smashed into and totaled it instead of giving you the True Value of that vehicle in your web of life activities: transportation to the job that pays for the food that feeds the family... freedom!

If you feel oppressed enough, maybe you're sitting there rah rah rahing against the man. But be careful just how far you push those "fight the power" and "break the rules" desires.

Maybe that's part of you growing harder

colder

more selfish

power-hungry

obsessed with control and

"having it YOUR WAY."


But, yet again...

Maybe you're already one of them.

recommend This comment thread is now closed
0
jordan

I understand that you feel hard done by from your Flickr experience,
but comparing a Flickr chat group to serial killers and terrorists does
not advance a sensible argument; I just wasn't sure what was newsworthy in this story.

0
dysamoria

You didn't read it very carefully then.

1. i was not talking about a chat group.

2. i am not talking about my flickr experience only. That's just a catalyst.

3. i never mentioned serial killers and terrorists. You are doing exactly what i suggested the reader NOT do: mistake a sociopath for a psychopath.

4. i did not compare item one to item three. 

5. What is newsworthy about this is the need to draw people's attention to a very serious issue. One in 25 people are sociopathic, yet people are largely ignorant of the fact, the very concept and its affects.

Maybe you should read and comprehend the story before commenting. Your comment does nothing to advance the appearance of yourself as a worthy commentator; it simply shows that you did not read the story and, instead, jumped right to the comments section to make incorrect assumptions and statements based on ignorance of the topic and its subject matter.

Seems to me, you're abusing your ability to mark stories as good or not. You ought to comprehend the material and READ it first. 

0
dysamoria

furthermore, anyone taking your judgement seriously might want to examine your profile and compare it against my observations of your lack of reading comprehension. i see what appears to be a lot of arrogance and no interest in the subject matter. i see no reason for you to have commented at all except to exercise your appearance of knowledge and power AND a higher moral stance. In reality, you've accomplished none of those. You HAVE made a good case for needing a closer look made at your privelidges here on this site and your character in general.

 

Unrelated: thanks, NowPublic, for the math problem spam fighter... i have dyscalculia. You couldn't go with something less obstructive to persons with neurological disabilities? 

1
jordan

I was wrong here. (Sorry it took me this long to get back to this story- things've been hectic lately...)

0
dysamoria

Hi Jordan, [PS and typos corrected]

Thanks for coming back and re-examining things. i've asked another editor to do the same (different story), but so far there's been no response. i added another comment, hoping it gets his attention.

i didn't previously respond to this in public, at the risk of being called out as an ass-kisser, but i think i should address it in public because it can serve a point about the story's topic... is that a self-serving motive? i wonder.

This is what separates "us" from "them." We reconsider and we change our views based on [insert something other than ego here]. i have ego. i know it. My ego was hurt when you marked the story as "needs improvement" with the kind of copy and paste suggestion that i found was unhelpful to me on my first outings here at NowPublic. My ego was bruised because i worked very hard on the story and am very passionate about the topic... and the judgment suggests "jace is wrong" (however indirectly). Yeah, i put some bitter sarcasm in my profile about quick judgments made by editors as an angry demonstration that i find quick judgments to be distasteful and unhelpful. i feel embarrassed about it (the act, not the belief). i think i left it there because i still feel that way. i worry that it might inspire offense or upset. Especially since i'm making a point of it right now, but i carry on with this statement because i think you understand. i've come to find you to be a great member of NowPublic (this being a prime example of why: you're interactive and you stop to think). If it bothers you that my bitter profile statement comes from our first interactions here, please let me know public or private. i personally consider this a learning experience that not all people who seem unthoughtful ARE unthoughtful. You've proven my fear to be wrong. Thank you.

i was wrong. It hurts to say it, but i'm glad i was wrong. You proved wrong a fear that comes from pathological functioning: assuming the source of the hurt is intending to hurt, or is callous, or careless. The very same things i want to filter from society... are certainly present in my own self. Does this take away my credibility? Do i really have any to begin with?

i do try to make my actions serve more than just my own personal ego, though it frightens me how much "artificial" control it takes, sometimes, to perform like a non-sociopath. That's when i wonder... "am i becoming one??" Supposedly, questioning it is the first sign that it isn't sociopathy. Supposedly. This is part of the reason i can (creepily) identify with what "makes them." It's also what makes me believe in the connection between autism spectrum disorders, BPD and sociopathy. That's not a connection i want to draw casually, but i do see and feel it, and i'm not finding this to be a topic of interest [for researchers] or even referenced in research or writings on those topics, thus far.

Do you have an opinion on any of this?

-jace
dysamoria

p.s.: as i stated in a private message, i feel squirmy and uncomfortably embarassed re-reading my criticisms of Jordan. i was wrong. i've learned Jordan is more than i had thought. i was wrong.

0
jordan

I really wouldn't feel too bad about it, seriously. It's clear to me that you aren't malicious. Nobody is without ego... nobody.

What's weird about the Internet (besides all the cat-based humor) is that, whereas in the real world, we tend to divide our effects on the world in terms of words and actions; on the web, words are actions. Making it all a bit more complicated is that there's no "tone of voice" for text... threads like this are important, because you can see how minds/views change, sorta like the rings on a tree.

(I don't think that all site-based communications should be saved for all eternity, but I think it's useful to see visible history sometimes)

1
Jaypanese

This article is riddled with sociopathic traits itself. I don't mean to be counterproductive, but brushing sociopathic people off as inhuman is sociopathic behavior. Obviously this is a growing developmental disorder that is in dire need of attention and research by the proper fields of study. They last thing someone with a mental illness needs is people attacking them for things that are beyond their control. When you replied to others who have counterarguments for you, you react as if you were attacked. You began putting up counterdefenses when they were just offering opinions. This is also a trait of sociopaths.

My thoughts on sociopathy are sociopaths become burned out by their own insecurities and become emotionally numb.This severe level of hate and insecurity probably comes from a long line of insecure, overbearing, abusive, overreaching, underachieving fathers. 

One last note, sociopaths don't act the way they do because they like to. They believe that is the way things are done. In their eyes they are almost always the victim in some way or another. It is the way of this nation to encourage chaos for the sake of greed and control. The only way to currently put an end to it is to promote peace and let go of greed. We are all greedy and we don't realize it. If you say "not me" then look in your closet. If all you have is just what you need, then you are humble. If you have a pile of junk lying around in your house, then you are greedy.

1
ettringermedia

I think this writing was very informative in terms of the author really trying to explore the phenomenon behind his victimization.  It's obvious that he's thought and read a lot about the subject.

As humans, we are obligated to treat all other humans humanely, lest we lose our humanity.  I in fact posed the same question that this author posed about treating sociopaths humanely, to a psychologist who wrote on the subject,  and that was his sentiment.  Still, that doesn't mean we have to constantly  tip-toe around sociopaths and talk nice to them.   Sociopaths are primal and the only way to deal with them is to keep them restrained and subordinate.  Animals bare their teeth and growl to keep other predators at bay and similarly, threat and intimidation is the only thing sociopaths respond to.

They last thing someone with a mental illness needs is people attacking them for things that are beyond their control.

Sociopathy is not dyslexia or agoraphobia, it is a dangerous lack of the very traits which make us human.  It is also a trait that is usually undiagnosed and condoned in business.  The only defense that decent, developed humans have to ward off these robotons is to attack them.  Since they do not have feelings anyway, it's hardly doing them any harm.  The last thing decent, feeling, considerate people need is a cruel, cold, heartless sociopath ruining their life.

My thoughts on sociopathy are sociopaths become burned out by their own insecurities and become emotionally numb.This severe level of hate and insecurity probably comes from a long line of insecure, overbearing, abusive, overreaching, underachieving fathers. 

This entire paragraph is academically and factually incorrect.  Sociopaths do not "become" anything--they are that way from early childhood on.  Many, many people are severely abused and they grow up to not habitually harm other people.  Sociopathy is largely due to being spoiled, never being told the word "no," a failure to be socialized into respect and empathy for other people either through inadequate supervision in childhood, solitude in childhood or a significant lack of consequences for their bad behavior.  This absent social development actually manifests in their brain wiring, where lack of proper socialization in childhood results in their cognitive, restraint and emotive sections of the brain not having proper connections to each other.

The biggest mistake people and society make in dealing with sociopaths is to repeatedly forgive their bad behavior in the hopes that they will reform.  They do not reform, they only grow craftier and more brazen in their bad behavior.

One last note, sociopaths don't act the way they do because they like to. They believe that is the way things are done.

Again, this is completely incorrect.  Sociopaths not only like what they're doing and will even admit in interviews that their bad behavior "satiated" them and "calmed" them, but they KNOW what they're doing is NOT the way things are done, which is why they go to great lengths to threaten co-conspirators into secrecy, cover their tracks and carry out their agendas underhandedly.  O.J. Simpson knew well that arming himself and carrying out a robbery of his sports memorabilia in that Las Vegas hotel room was NOT the way things are done.  He made a choice to act the bully and to brass knuckle his agenda through.  He's not a confused, oblivious, hapless mental patient.  He knew exactly what he was doing was wrong.

Perhaps we all are tempted by greed in our lives, but our integrity restrains that greed or we come to realize money and material items are not what bring us satisfaction in life.  Sociopaths have no restraint and are not contented with emotional rewards in lieu of material rewards.

It shows a real ignorance of sociopathy that you think fostering peace and eliminating greed will cure the world of these psychos.  Most people are already peaceful, it's the sociopaths wreaking much of the pain and suffering in the world and leaving them alone and forgiving them only empowers them more.

I suggest you read "Without Conscience" by Dr. Robert Hare.

0
dysamoria

"I think this writing was very informative in terms of the author really trying to explore the phenomenon behind his victimization.  It's obvious that he's thought and read a lot about the subject."

Thank you for that kindness. The sad part is that my victimization isn't just something that i think about in an active manner. It's become pathology for me. Since i have Asperger's Syndrome, i really am unable to put it out of my mind. The only thing to help it is to understand it. Problem with that process is that it DOESN'T actually help it. It just makes it even more difficult to deal with because i know more, understand more and wish others to also know and understand more and then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. They never will. So the victimization, as part of my PTSD, pops into my conscious mind on its own. It would take an immense amount of positive life experiences to stop this from happening. (that's not looking likely)

i agreed with everything you said in your thoughtful comment and i did indeed come across Dr. Robert Hare (maybe even wrote to him, can't recall at the moment, see the follow-up article i wrote on sociopathy)... Except for one thing: sociopaths are not born.

Maybe in rare cases, this is true, due to neurological wiring...

Still, in all of my exposure to and reading about sociopaths indicates a very very clear pathway of being somewhat autistic themselves, not fitting in, taking the animalistic approach to solving this problem (as you point out, they are very animalistic and they certainly respond to aggression... but interestingly... it often puts them off their DIRECT game and makes them go run away to find someone more susceptible to their lies and schemes instead of maintaining the conflict - jefferson did this a few times with me when i actually stood up for myself and challenged him - talk to the hand, if you can believe it, was a gesture he actually gave me when i challenged him on his "department disinformation" document, then he ran off to find someone to complain to about jace who might agree with him).

They are exactly as you described someone with a learning disability to be: function impaired. So they look to see what the best action is, and, after a while, being the bad guy is the best action to take because being the good guy gets you where i am: fried. Plus, jefferson has so many autism traits that people remarked how similar he and i were... on the surface. However, i learned to make and maintain eye contact when not used as a weapon or when defending myself. i learned lying only complicates things. i learned that being abused is a rotten feeling and chose not to do it to others.

But i'm changing. With all the abuse i've had (including some idiot who lives close enough to me to describe my house while web stalking me with insults), i'm starting to get more and more aggressive. It's borderline personality disorder: expect the worst NOW because it seems to have always been the result to anything in the past. So, expect the worst NOW, or even head it off and ACT on the worst BEFORE the other person has a chance to... to save yourself the disappointment, embarassment, etc. i see it in me and it is driven by fear of repeats and by feelings of betrayal. Both are valid, but i see it growing worse, just as i saw it grow worse in others with BPD. Others who couldn't see themselves.

i'm afraid i'll either get locked up for someone else's comfort, kill myself, or do something bad. As in bad bad. i've already taken enough of it out on my own body and house. i've felt that i'd rather make this house uninhabitable and run off with my last disability check and get myself shot in the head to end things in a nice, neat manner.

But i care what people think. i care what i think of myself. i care about other people. i don't want to accidentally injure or hurt others. i don't want to be tossed aside by the few who still support me (i never had real friends who act in supporting manners, just ... people who liked, and more importantly, hated the same things as me - that's not friendship).

i also have three cats under my care. Destroying my house destroys their shelter and toxifies it for them.

i'd put a bullet through my brain stem in a heartbeat. i wouldn't hesitate a moment (except to find a good place for the bullet to go upon exiting my head, like the ground). but harming others... Aparently there's a choice factor. You mentioned it.

Sociopaths know what they're doing is wrong. It's just up to choice. Choose to be a scumbag or choose to ... what ... self destruct? jefferson's behavior self destructed several of his jobs, one of them was the one we worked at together previously to Kutztown University. But he left on his own accord, with the claim that the company was moving in directions that no longer fit his way of life. Hah. He knew he had screamed at (and swore at) the wrong people and that it was KNOWN and he also knew layoffs were coming. Still, at KU, what did he do but self destruct a perfectly great combo of skills in the Learning Technologies Center by needing to OWN me and have control over me like i was some computer cart owned by his department's funding (he actually harassed other colleagues of ours about coming to me for help without going through him - because the rest of them are all passive-aggressive or just plain complacent, this actually wasn't punished as it should have been; plus, the dean didn't manage downward).

He's still there, though. And there's still aparantly some kind of terror game going on via him or someone he has tooling for him. HR is still on his side (why would they be otherwise when they're all sociopaths themselves, like sharon HR Manager picus: she who declared "Bullying isn't illegal." so as to declare "i don't care and you can't induce me to do anything because i see nothing illegal and therefore will do nothing... except harass YOU, jace."

Is he still harassing his colleagues? i hear that academia is an excellent place for sociopathic behavior because nothing ever really amounts to anything in academia. It's all about reputation and he wants to be the man.

Well, people know, and even the ones who kiss his ass or tiptoe around him know. It just doesn't matter because there's no bottom line. The place owes me millions and i bet you the declaration in court would be "we're not a profit-based organization" while they put up billion-dollar buildings to increase their look of grandness... oh the attitude of attitude goes all the way up. The president there is a figure head. Human Resources is run like corporate. It IS corporate. Just without being honest about the fact. But there's no bottom line he has to contribute to or pay his dues to.

i think i've overstated my point. i agree with you, you made great statements, but i do think that these people are made... to a point.

-jace

0
dysamoria

Jaypanese, you make some very interesting statements. For this reason, please check out a story i am about to post... You may find it very very enlightening.

1
John Temple

What I'm tired of in this and all other blogs about peoplw whining aboutm sociopaths and the damage they do. These people are weak and deserve their pain. Only a fool takes to their hearts what others say, the only value you have is what you believe you have. Sociopaths aren't a disease they are the next step. Imagine a world not bound by petty morality, a world where everyone looked out for themselves. None of this help thy neighbor crap thats so prominet today. Everyone striving to be the best to be dominant. Thats the only true route to strength. Sociopaths are the future. they don't need help. You should learn from these people, this next step in evolution. Guilt is a chain that binds us, emotions the noose around our neck.

0
dysamoria

@ John Temple:

the only value you have is the value others believe you have. but the value you have in yourself influences the opinion of others, so highly valuing yourself may result in a gain in real value.

this is why sociopaths are so dangerous to society. they understand this and they use their charisma to manipulate communities to their personal advantage. and american cultural structures reward this sort of behavior. historically, major advances in society have been a result of communities banding together against a common enemy, not individuals competing against individuals. as individuals, we are pathetically weak.

if you were truly concerned with your personal strength and placed no stock in the opinions others have about you, you wouldn't waste your time posting comments such as this. the only thing you have to gain is the satisfaction of stepping on someone else to help yourself up. this is not a trait of someone strong. this is the tactic of the true weak and insecure.

and fyi, you could use a little guilt, my friend. if your day to day actions are at all reflected in the attitude of this post, you have much to feel guilty for. 

although this comment has been addressed to John Temple, it is written for every reader BUT him. Temple's hateful comments do not deserve a response, but readers who may have responded to his gruff display of chest pounding with anger or fear deserve to see the little man that lies behind the curtain.

-Victory Grey

0
dysamoria

I hope John Temple's employers and family notice his comment here. I'm somewhat sure that they would not take well to his anti-social sociopathy-praising attitude - especially his employers...

So then...

John Temple is a sociopath?

John Temple seems to be saying he is a sociopath.

John Temple is praising sociopathy.

John Temple must be a sociopath.

Or,

 John Temple is a 15-year-old kid, striking out at a society that has wronged him by NOT being the "help thy neighbor" society it claims to be, and John Temple thinks he will succeed in besting that anti-society by being a prime example of sociopathy. John Temple is seemingly suggesting that he is and will be a selfish, self-aggrandizing and cruel creature, crushing and standing on the backs of those he uses to climb and scrape his way to what he thinks is the top of the pile.

 Congratulations, John Temple the sociopath.

-Intransitivus

0
Hunter Burroughs

Im a sociopath, and yea everyone deserves humane treatment.  I have no regard for anyones feelings if i somehow hurt them.  We dont even understand what we're saying.  Do you realize that sociopaths are much more intelligent, keen, and way faster thinkers than you "normal" people.  Normal people treat other people how they want to be treated.   We are everywhere in society and we arent a threat to the public. We have a legitimate disorder that has very little effect on our societies entire infrastructure. If anyone of you ran into me and talked to me, cuz i love talking, you'd have no clue im a sociopath.  Is this really a question that deserves an answer?   or maybe you're just asking the dumbest question ive ever heard regarding the Sociopath.  Most of us fit into society better then all of you. The fact is that in the right circumstances all you "normees" would break down into a melt down of your entire psyche. Im 23 yrs old and its really all we know how to do is see whats normal then imitate it until its a functioning acceptable way to be out in society. We don't see most of our problems, due to the fact that we dont notice the things we do. Ive never hurt anyone like how you think we would.  I fight and i get in too many.  Also since i quit drugs to balance the shit feelings with the illegal drugs its brough up an older problem thats come right back. Nothing sadistic or massachistic, its just my wonderful addiction to sex.  I take a lot of risks but im too smart for my own good. Whats your IQ or SAT score?  My IQ is 167.  i scored 1457 on my first SAT test.  You go through what i have to go through everyday and lets treat you like a fucking animal.  Is this America??  You couldn't tell if the random person you're talking to is a sociopath.  We cant function in society, so we learn, and we never stop learning from you. Society can try to make it like we're outcasts but nobody can tell.

0
Hunter Burroughs

ok well then everyone in nursing homes and shit needs to be in category with dementia.  we cant have them runnnin the streets.  i found out a way you can decide how to pick people to be inhumane to.  Get everyone with alzhiemers and dementia and take their clothes and shoes. send em all out on a frozen lake and keep whipping them cuz theyll forget anyways, and they didnt know where they were going anyways.  how about everybody with blonde hair is now gonna have to live in an inhumane concentration camp where it rains shit from the ceiling.  You act like a sociopath is a Psychopath.  Very different as they are similar.  so why is it that sociopaths have to be treated inhumanely??  Actually id wanna watch them break your (so called) "NORMAL" brain's entire psyche down with torture and basically my life experiences til now.  i never woke up and was like lemme take some sociopath pills and have to learn to be normal to you assheads.  liike seriously do you Hitler fucks realize what you are saying??  Say this was real.  That is only gonna be a downfall for govt.  Hey Hitler go fuck yourself because you're talking about people like me who function well in life and its us sociopaths with brains too.  did you know that there's a nice percentage of doctors who are sociopaths.  i believe its 2 in 10 for Cops. Lawyers about 31% are sociopaths.

0
dysamoria

Hunter Burroughs (not verified),

Do you deserve humane treatment?

i think it really depends on whether or not you treat other humans with humanity and respect. You indicate that you do not and will not. Sounds to me like you have choices and you're actively selecting the actions and behaviors that are the easiest for you instead of trying to "overcome a disability."

You're right: there are a high percentage of doctors who are sociopaths. i've met at least one, maybe two. i met an RN who is a sociopath (luckily, she no longer works where i met her: working as an RN, not being a patient, at a "behavioral health" hospital ward).

You're right: the percentage for police and lawyers being sociopaths are quite high, though i've never found actual statistics. Could you point me in the direction of these statistics so i can reference them in future?

Now look at the last two things i told you that you're right about: people in positions of authority who are sociopaths. You're right that they are there. But you're wrong in declaring that it doesn't harm society. If you truly understood, or cared, you'd know that the very definition of "anti-social personality disorder" is a disorder in which the personality is incapable of harmonizing with society. Being a constant taker and conflict-creator is most definitely harmful to society. It is "anti-society." It is against the requirements of HAVING a society. It is very much in opposition to having SOCIETY.

i wont go on further in trying to give you information. You're not interested in facts that don't support your personal agenda; you're merely an example of yet another person who's come here to either bait me, call me names or make false claims that sociopaths are somehow superior to non-sociopaths. You made an example out of yourself that HELPS my cause, in fact. Thank you for helping.

You made an excellent example for just how socipathic you are, down to the suggestion that you should be left alone to do what you do without interference, and including the suggestion that those of us who might find it good to stop sociopaths are somehow elitists or racists (and you've clearly described yourself to be elite).

If you truly were disabled in the sense that you don't have a clue what you're doing (as you claimed) the majority of what you wrote here would not have been said by you; it would have been said by someone who is NOT actively identifying themselves as being a sociopath. If you're just saying those things because someone told them to you, your high IQ only measures how well you can copy, not how intelligent or clever you are.

Last: because i know it's easy to bait a sociopath by attacking their intelligence (and you think you will win over "normees" by assaulting their sensitivities)... your so-called IQ really is a meaningless number. It doesn't measure anything of applicable value. You succeeded in copying what other people do. Great. Mechanical effectiveness? Great. It doesn't offer anything of value to anyone; just you and your own personal survival. So your value to society is definitely in question (which wouldn't be an issue if you didn't declare that you're harmful to people in one sentence and then harmless to society in another; you deserve filtering FROM society to protect it). Your "IQ" does not measure intelligence. It represents how good a shallow copy of "normees" you can pretend to be. Plus, your writing demonstrates that, while your "IQ" score might be high... it definitely does not reflect your communication skills, which probably scores quite low. i don't know if i will develop into being a sociopath (i see this as a possibility given "what i've been through"), but i do know that i'll be much better than yourself at discussing the topic (or any other topic). If you were the perfect example of "most sociopaths," i wouldn't have to worry because you're not a successful one (here). But many other sociopaths are far more successful than yourself and those are the ones that do the most damage. You just sound like a 12-year-old troll.

...

To anyone who cares:

yeah, that was rude of me, i know it, i care how that makes me look and i feel scummy showing that part of me (being rude to a stranger, passing judgment and making assumptions, etc.). It is a response "in kind," to illustrate why "not caring about other people" is negative, disruptive and generally unhelpful to anything but a person's personal ego; i have ego, and it does push at me like anyone else. i chose to be honest about who and what i am in the open, without suggesting that it's fine and ok to be rude or act superior. i do believe the things i said and that might be mistaken thinking on my part. So here it is to discuss.

Some people discuss it, others just run up, throw self-superiority rocks, and then run back to their glass huddles. i may be wrong to think as i do, but i have chosen to try making a statement, and therefore take action, on an issue i think is very important.

If "you" are happy to live with people like "Hunter Borroughs" as your police, lawyers, doctors and other authority figures (assumingly with better self control when not outing themselves with potentially fake names on annonymous website postings), then, enjoy, because that is exactly what we have (a society owned and operated by sociopaths). Mr. Burroughs thinks that you inferior weaklings should just step aside and let "his kind" play with "our world" however they want to. Did you elect "a sociopath" or "a person who stands for the issues you believed he/she believed in" when they advertized to get your vote?

DID you vote, or did "they" simply assume/take the power of authority over you without your consent?

The sociopaths we have to worry about are not bothering themselves writing anonymous antagonistic postings on websites; they're busy with bigger and more enjoyable things, such as deciding if the defect in the car you're about to buy is worth fixing based on comparing what costs them less: fixing it, or paying for the lawsuits from the victims of the defect. Yes, that and more. They're playing with our lives in whatever way most benefits THEM, and only them (not even each other).

1
dysamoria

i looked for photos to add to this story and was swamped by the horrific things in other news, like Sri Lanka.

Isn't this why i fight against sociopathy? i don't want human beings to be CAPABLE of the things that are "news porn" every day. Those horrors are used as fodder to sell commercial time on television. Sociopathic sales. The horrors themselves happen because of the same exact trait in human beings everywhere: antipathy.

shame.


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