DoD Op Enduring Freedom Casualty update as of 10am 02 Oct 2009

by Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke | October 3, 2009 at 02:14 am

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U.S Casualties have increased again during this past week. Here is the update of total casualties as of 10 am 2 October 2009. The number of Deaths has now risen to 774, which is an increase of `5 over the previous week.

Casualties in Afghanistan keep mounting amidst the debate over a new strategy. The National Security Council has now met at least once to debate a new strategy. The Generals in the field seem to be supporting a massive troop increase, while some on the NSC including Joe Biden and General (ret) Jones support a diminished stand off fight with drones and surgical air strikes.

A prolonged conflict, advocated by General McChrystal, is not supported by the U.S. public, especially President Obama's constituency on the left. Being President, however, is not a popularity contest. Leaders sometimes must make hard decisions that do not flow with the main stream of polls and popularity. How will President Obama decide? The leak of the McChrystal report has brought this issue front and center.

OEF U.S. Military Casualties Total Deaths KIA Non-Hostile WIA RTD ** WIA Not RTD

In and Around Afghanistan 774 595 179 1,639 2,499

Other Locations**** 72 3 69 1
OEF U.S. DoD Civilian Casualties 1 1

Worldwide Total 847 599 248 1,639 2,500

As of Saturday, October 3rd, 2009, at least 774 members of the U.S. military had died in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Uzbekistan as a result of the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in late 2001, according to the Defense Department. The department last updated its figures Friday October 2nd 10:00 AM EDT.

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Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke

at 05:59 on October 3rd, 2009

yea I agree, either go with McChrystal's plan or get the hell out of there.

Rory Cripps

at 07:10 on October 3rd, 2009

ACP: Yeah! Get them the hell out of there! I heard that Obama spoke to McChrystal the other day for 25 minutes. I believe that Obama took time out of his visit to Copenhagen re the summer Olympics. These folks aren't going to come up with a plan. All they do is talk while more military personnel die. It;'s a disgrace.

nanute

at 08:52 on October 3rd, 2009

The leaking of the McChrystal "plan" borders on insubordination.Kind of like when Truman had to fire MacArthur. I can just hear the gasbags and the ideologues on the right if Obama doesn't follow the "advice" of his commander in the field. McCain and Graham will be on the Sunday talk shows clutching the pearls in no time. Didn't someone write a piece the other day on World Net Daily about a military coup? How patriotic!

There is no viable military solution to this problem inherited from the previous administration. Have we stopped looking for BinLaden? Have we neutralized the Taliban? Have we won the hearts and minds of the average Afghan?

Will more troops be a positive step against the insurgency? Has the mission changed from one of eradicating the "enemy" to protecting the population? Some would argue that Afghanistan is incapable of democratizing. I'm starting to think they might be on to something.

Rory Cripps

at 11:26 on October 3rd, 2009

Nanute: Afghanistan has already been "democratized" . . . it's called mob rule. HA! The "winning hearts and minds" approach and the "politically correct" approach never worked. And how can anyone expect it to work in a place like Afghanistan? The only thing that would work is for NATO troops to kill the enemy (or what's believed to be the enemy) on sight and not worry about international repercussions every time they dump "friendlies" and civilians. The body count would be in the hundreds of thousands and we'd have to maintain a military presence there for at least fifty years. And at the same time, we'd have to entirely rebuild the country's infrastructure, employ the population, provide medical care, dole out trillions to Afghan citizens, and install an American military dictatorship similar to what we installed in Japan subsequent to WW II. Unless brutal and drastic measures are taken, Afghanistan is a no-win situation. My heart breaks every time another NATO troop is KIA there.

Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke

at 13:12 on October 3rd, 2009

Bullshit, it borders on nobody listening to him..Remember Obama appointed him .. He deserves better than a Commander in Chief who likes teleprompters.

nanute

at 17:18 on October 3rd, 2009

Like it or not Mr. ACP, Obama is the commander in chief. For any subordinate to undermine his superior is insubordinate. Just because you don't have any regard for Obama doesn't change the facts. And who said nobody is listening to McCrystal? Knee jerk reactions by the previous administration got us into this mess, and before any more young lives are put at risk, careful deliberation is necessary. A few more days or weeks of careful deliberation will not change the outcome in Afghanistan.

marianmo

at 09:20 on October 3rd, 2009

ty for keeping us informed acp

nanute

at 12:33 on October 3rd, 2009

Afghanistan had mob rule before we got there. I guess if that's your definition of "democracy" we shouldn't have ventured in to begin with. Please tell me what the "politically correct" approach is/was? I agree with your sentiment regarding the situation being no win. The problem is how does Obama, get out without "victory"? How in the hell would anyone even define victory in this quagmire?

Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke

at 13:19 on October 3rd, 2009

I really don.t depend aon Obama doing anything. He is out of his league. Again, as I have said often, talk is cheap,,,

Whiskey costs money

Obama needs to become a leader.

Rory Cripps

at 07:06 on October 4th, 2009

nanute: Democracy is probably the worst form of government. It's equivalent to anarchy. It's mob rule based on mass emotion and the whim of the majority. It's every man, woman, and child for themselves. It's the type of government that creates a vacuum that is easily filled and, therefore, pressurized by outside forces of the dictatorial and totalitarian variety.

Our U.S. system of government is not a democracy per se. It's a essentially a republic with elements of democracy thrown in (such as direct election of representatives) bound together by a constitution. Three separate but equal branches of government check and balance each other (at least in theory). Could you imagine what would occur if America was a direct democracy where there were no checks and balances and the majority ruled?

Mob rule
Plato's the Republic presents a critical view of democracy through the narration of Socrates: "Democracy, which is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder, and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequaled alike."[75] In his work, Plato lists 5 forms of government from best to worst. Assuming that the Republic was intended to be a serious critique of the political thought in Athens, Plato argues that only Kallipolis, an aristocracy lead by the unwilling philosopher-kings (the wisest men) is a just form of government.

The other forms of government place too much focus on lesser virtues, and degenerate into each other from best to worst, starting with Timocracy, which overvalues honour. Then comes Oligarchy, overvaluing wealth, which is followed by Democracy. In Democracy, the oligarchs, or merchant, are unable to wield their power effectively and the people take over, electing someone who plays on their wishes, by throwing lavish festivals etc. However, the government grants the people too much freedom, and the state degenerates into the fourth form, Tyranny/mob rule.

The Founding Fathers of the United States intended to address this criticism by combining democracy with republicanism. A constitution would limit the powers of what a simple majority can accomplish.[76]

jefhow22

at 13:37 on October 3rd, 2009

I agree with all the talking points of these posts. We need to get out of this "quagmire" and fast. Biden's option of using drones and surgical strikes to eliminate the threat borders on "Alice in Wonderland" falling through the key hole. Fantasy Island. We can't tell the bad guys from the good guys in Afganistan. And the needless killing of their women, children, and innocent civilians is absolutely criminal on the part of the US. Nanute, you ask many important questions that are at the crux of the problem. I fear Obama has no real power over the outcome of this tragic world situation. It has gotten to the point of the dog chasing its tail. I believe we must let the Afganistan people figure out the solution whether or not we agree with it or not.