Dublin: 120,000 marched in protest organised by the unions

I don't agree that the tactic is useful. Obama has pointed out that we all have to have "skin in the game", a contribution of sacrifice.

So what is wrong with asking the very securely employed state employees to give up some money for a while instead of letting go of those with less seniority?

Obviously, the bankers need to be held accountable and the politicians who enabled them as well. I don't see the former coming in any meaningful way and I don't see the latter coming AT ALL.

So, even then, the problems caused by an oversupply of money, i.e. the speculative bubble and its collapse, will not go away by itself, accountable or not.

What to do about the problem as it is? Poseurs use the media as a stage for political theater. I have to think that something of this is behind this protest.

Yesterday someone else posted on this and I asked him what exactly did the strikers propose instead of a small pay cut. He had no answer.

Why is this information not available very easily? If you are against one particular mode of dealing with the problem, these enormous problems that will take a decade to clean up, what is your suggestion?

So, what do the government employee unions want done instead and how will that tactic work and how is it justified morally?

Thank you so much for this story. I've been following events like this throughout the UK and the rest of the EU, as well as around the world.

I believe that marches and rallies and protests are incredibly important as they show that people are paying attention. And they garner attention, although rarely to the extend they should.

In the absence of public displays, many politicians, other decision makers and those who have access to influence, would be able to guide plans the way they want, without challenge and without scrutiny. Those decisions are not necessarily for the common good or in the public -- meaning the peoples' -- interest.

Regarding public sectors workers giving it up. They frequently already have been before the general population realizes there's a problem and before the private sector is asked or required to. The public sector is an easy target and the first place politicians turn to when 'times get tough'. It's easy to complain about public services but those who do that work last much longer than most politicians do. And the services and programs they implement and maintain mean more to the average person than a political pronouncement.

In regards to who is organizing the marches? It makes sense that trade unions would do this. They already have the capacity to mobilize many people, and they speak from a collective frame. Labour organizations often are able to provide a vehicle from which many can speak -- especially non-profit groups that represent women, the poor, and others who are not as well resourced.

In my opinion, trade unions are a legitimate vehicle through which wealth is distributed more equitably across society and throughout population. However, because they represent workers - some well paid but many who are not - they bring a different perspective to the table.

Those is power, those with wealth and influence, don't need to rally and march and protest because the already have the aforementioned power and influence. Those without the same access use different mechanisms - like demonstrations, and yes, strikes.

Here's a related story about the International Labour Organization's (ILO) projection of 50 million jobs to be lost worldwide in 2009 posted to NowPublic last week. Reason enough for me that labour is on the move.

Hi Roy C,

In my opinion the protests will not contribute to a resolution of the problem but on the other hand the purpose of a union is to defend the terms and conditions of  it members therefore we are going to see many protests and actions going forward.

If the unions representing public workers do achieve any gains it is most likely that such gains will have an negative impact on me and others in the private sector because the Government needs to find money very quickly.

You have asked about "There Is a Better, Fairer Way" here is the link

Here are some of their suggestions regarding tax;

• Income from all sources – capital and labour - must be taxed the same;
• Tax exiles must stay away if they don’t want to be taxed here;
• Tax shelters without a proven economic gain should be abolished;
• A property tax should apply to property other than the principal private residence;
• The levy on high earners (above €100k) should be graded upwards significantly;
• A new rate of income tax at 48 percent for high income earners;
• Abolish hospital co-location, with its generous tax breaks for developers.

I mean, fellow humans, all I am saying is that they can protest being singled out for sacrifice, and they can protest being asked to sacrifice too much, but they CANNOT protest without making counter-suggestion as to what their own sacrifices should be.

I apologize if I missed that suggestion on the pages where an approach has been outlined.

I agree Roy C, protest for its own sake is of no value, in my opinion.

Sometimes demonstrations, and even strikes, are a way to become part of the conversation and so part of the solution. And sometimes, in the backroom, those who do protest are encouraged to do so by those who don't, in order to create movement.

In Canada, there are several examples over the years of public sector workers taking cuts beforehand and then have wages rolled back or frozen when politicians are under their constituents' microscopes. Or simply losing decent jobs in favour of an ideology.

If the Canadian examples would help further this discussion, I will look them up and add them to this stream. But that may be a diversion.

In some circumstances, public sector workers are responsible for regulation and enforcement. However, I think it's too easy to say that they helped create the current economic meltdown.

Government bureaucrats often do their jobs complete with due diligence and recommendations/warnings. That's at the lower and middle ranks. If those higher up the food chain choose to stifle, dilute or omit critical pieces of information, that's not the fault of those who provided it. Among some in the top levels of bureaucracy, and with some of their political bosses, folks have learned that 'telling it like it is' is unwelcome, and career limiting.

Lots of room for post-evaluation. Back to the solutions.

I believe that any solution process will benefit from the input and energy of many. The public sector can contribute to the solution rather than have a 'solution' imposed upon them, especially one as uncreative as wage cuts. Perhaps some positions could weather a wage cut; others cannot because they are already low-waged.

On another note, I do think that lots of people can contribute to solutions. I disagree that everyone needs to sacrifice or share the pain. Some people, usually the most marginalized and vulnerable among us, have been overlooked in good times and were already struggling. Now they are struggling even more. I don't want them to sacrifice more. I want the rest of us to step up.

It's to simple to say that 'everyone has skin in the game'. Everyone has an interest, true. Again, should everyone sacrifice? Not convinced of that.

Thanks for this piece and for the photos.

Those who have nothing to contribute can't be asked to contribute, but the idea that we will determine ourselves, autocratically, what we sacrifice is utopia and idealist and authoritarian, in the end.

All of this must be negotiated and power may trump principle. So, before we sacrifice, we must state principles, give concrete examples and discuss the pros and cons.

My perspective tells me that most peope think someone else should give more.

Roy C - you suggest that it is fair that workers, who already live on very little, are asked to pay a levy on their pensions because in the current economic climate we need to cut back. You wonder why we demonstrated rather than give our share. I am not sure how much you really know about the Irish situation, but the fact is that the Irish government has granted € 7 billion to the Irish banks, bailing out financiers, builders and other fat cats. Where is this money coming from? You guess... And now tell me you think it is fair that we should pay a levy to finance those who have a) got enough anyway and b) haven proven that they don't know how to deal with money properly??????????????