Gaza, Israel, War, Peace

by 158 | January 4, 2009 at 07:56 am
3660 views | 35 Recommendations | 51 comments
Obama said : "If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that. I would expect Israelis to do the same thing."

This is the very basic issue. Whether it is Bush or Obama, or Israel or France, or Russia or Egypt, no government is going to sit idly while thousands of rockets are fired at their citizens. Also if someone breaks into your house and kills one of your children with a club are you going to find a club to fight him proportionally while he attacks your other children or do you get your gun and shoot him?

On the other side Israel did occupy Gaza for 40 years and did little to improve the lives of the people.  Israel did not allow self government and blocked any attempts to create an independent Palestinian state. In this Israel is guilty of neglect and inaction at the very least.

Israel, like it or not, is a permanent part of the middle east.  7 million Jews will not pack and move to Europe. Gaza must deal with this fact. Gaza cannot defeat Israel . They can as they have proved cause problems for Israel and even kill some of its citizens but as Israel has proved when this happens they can cause even more damage to Gaza. So for any resolution other than two more generations of war Hamas must accept Israel as a neighbor, while disputing the exact border, and learn to live in peace.

Israel can defeat and could even totally destroy Gaza if they are willing to commit genocide but they will not do that. If they did they would be a Jewish island surrounded by 200 million hostile Arabs, who would in the next generation overwhelm them.Israel must accept an independent Palestinian state, help it get started economically and engage in trade and cooperation with them. Otherwise Israel must reoccupy Gaza or face generations of fighting with Gaza.

And the debate on this is mostly not debate but is in in fact 90% propaganda talking talking points for or against one side or the other.

Israelis are Nazis.--Hamas are terrorists.

And more along this line. These types refuse to ad admit any right by the other side or any wrong by their side. "We are 100% right, they are 100% wrong." I even read one comment something like--go, Hamas, beat them we support you-- like some fanatic at a football game.  Where is the real debate on the issues?

The primary issue now is to stop the fighting and killing.  That involves two points.  Israel must withdraw ground forces from Gaza and stop air attacks.  Hamas must stop all rocket attacks against Israel.  This cannot be one or the other but must be both. And it must be a sustainable cease fire.  There was a 6 month cease fire that ended in December, which both sides violated. A sustainable one will require some kind of international presence on both sides of the border and enforceable sanctions for violations.

Can this be done?  Yes.  Will it be done? Maybe.  Probably sometime this month there will be  a withdrawal from Gaza and Hamas will stop firing rockets but observers on the ground probably will not happen.  And probably before the end of this year there will be another round of fighting

Sad but true.  I  have no answer for this.  There may not be an answer.

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1
Uwe Paschen

Well, thank you for reporting the US Presidents elect statement on the ongoing Gaza Crisis.

0
158

You are welcome.  It was included to show that president Obama will not make quick, major changes in US policy toward Israel.

1
poor oligarch

Obama's Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel is the son of a former Irgun terrorist according to BBC Radio 4's Profile programme broadcast earlier today, so 158 is probably correct that hoping for any instant change in US policy may be misplaced.

(More background on Benjamin Emanuel at prisonplanet)

7
Mahdi

I should say to Mr Obama that what do you do if someone come to your house and occupy it? do you sit outside the house and smile in peace or you try to get back your right, your home by at least throwing a stone toward the windows?

please wake up Mr president.

3
Heritage

Excellent point.

The brutal 40+ year Occupation is the root cause of the violence.



1
158

Heritage-

You are right that an occupation was a cause of present violence but the rood cause is the Arab invasion in 1948 of the land the UN decided belonged to Israel. If Palestinians had accepted that division they would have had 75% of Palestine for the past 60 years.

3
hussain

I completely agree with Heritage. But unfortunately nobody in the US or other European governments is ready to understand this. They would understand it only when the Jews would be driven out and reach their doors begging for refuge but it would be too late perhaps. Ironically, nobody is ready to accept the reality that a day dawns after every night. Is it not?

1
158

You make a good point but your solution is wrong.  If that neighbor is 100 times as stronger than you throwing that stone at him will not cause him to move, especially if he has no place he can move two.  One stone through his window would make a point.  A hundred stones a day with some hitting his children would cause him to shoot you and your family may also be harmed from being close to you.

Even if you are right you don't start a fight you can't win.

0
Mahdi

of course there are lots of places for an occupier to go. going to the country of their origin. or if they want to creat a jewish state, US can give the jews part of big USA or maybe canada. you mean that millions of palestinians should become refugees around the world in order to leave their home for an occupyer. by the way brother it is the jungle where who has the power has the right. when you have the right you should stay and shout your right even if you are the weakest.

1
158

Madhi

Jews originated in Palestine 4 thousand years ago, long before Arabs were there.

Every peace of land in the world is occupied by people who took it from someone else.

Jews lived in palestine 4,000 years ago.

Romans occupied Jewish lands.

Arabs expelled Romans and most Jews.

Turkey occupied the area and ruled Arabs.

England drove out the Turks.

England gave the land to the UN.

the UN divided it between Jews and Arabs.

Arabs invaded the Jewish land.

 The facts are neither 7 million Jews nor 4 million Palestians will leave for other countries. So they can continue to kill each other or compromise and live in peace.


0
Uwe Paschen

No, the Jews did not originate from Palestine, they invaded it coming from Egypt where they where some where slaves and other resident.

0
Janetde

Until both sides truly agree to let each live side by side and each accept that neither is all right nor all wrong, there will never be peace.

Gaza was a part of Egypt until the 1967 war and then the Israelis occupied it. Then the Iraelis withdrew and left it to the Palestinians.  True, the conditions were not perfect, but the land was the Palisinians.  Then why not work the land and make it bountiful?

Gold ehlps those who help themselves and Hamas is not being hlepful, it is trying to destroy.

Israel is doing wrong too, but sending rockets into bedrooms day and night eventually causes war and fighting back.  when both sides realize---or their citizens force them to realize---that no one can win except by accepting each other; then there is a chance for peace.

Otherwise, it is li9ke children crying,"he hit me first." 

0
158

Thanks.

Good comment.

3
158

You bring up a good point.  I agree that Gazans have real grievances and they have been mistreated by Israel. I am not opposing them seeking to redress those wrongs but I am questioning their choice of methods.

Gaza cannot defeat or seriously harm Israel.  Israel, no country, will sit idle while rockets are fired at their citizens.  These are facts which Hamas knows. So Hamas is firing rockets knowing Israel will strike back, hard. Hamas has made a choice. With no chance of a military victory they are betting the lives of hundreds of Gazans that pictures of mangled Gaza children on world TV will force the world to stop Israel.

We can debate who is right or wrong overall, but the blame for Gaza deaths is on the Hamas decision to provoke Israel.


2
George Gahooch

Your points are well taken.  When Israel occupied Gaza they provided jobs within Israel for Gazans and developed business relationships with Gazan farmers and manufacturers.  They also provided access to the Israeli courts for redress of grievances.  The border was tightened when Hamas sent in suicide bombers   Israel wanted to do business with Gaza and Hamas responded by sending in bombers and firing rockets. 

While Israel occupied Gaza they left two years ago.  Enough of this nonsence about the Israeli "occupation".  And Israel has every right to close the border crossings if Hamas uses this to send it suicide bombers.  Egypt understands this and that's why they also keep their border crossing closed.

Also, why are there so-called refugees in Gaza?  After all, Gaza was once occupied by Egypt (pre-1967).  What did the Egyptians do to help their "Arab brothers"?  Nothing, they kept them in squalid refugee camps.  If the Arabs won't take care of their people why should Israel? 

3
Heritage

While Israel occupied Gaza they left two years ago.  Enough of this nonsence about the Israeli "occupation".

Israel left Gaza and created the world's largest open air Prison. It has 1.5 million inmates.



Israeli assault on Gaza: the cartoonists' view
How illustrators around the world are depicting the offensive

1
158

Heritage.

Hamas has killed more Gazans in the past 4 years than has Israel.

Hamas holds more Gazans as political prisoners than does Israel.

Hamas brought this misery on the Gaza people by killing Israeli civilians with rockets fired from Gaza.

So who created this prison?



1
mahdi

your answer is that who started the occupation?

0
158

You also make good points. Israel could have done more, especially in helping set up an independent Palestinian state, but it was not a Nazi type occupation.

And, yes, there is no occupation of Gaza now.

Good comment.

5
Mahdi

I just pray for those innocent babies and childs who celebrate the new year under the 1 tone bombs of israel.

0
George Gahooch

And I pray for the innocent babies and children who celebrate the new year under the rockets and mortars of Hamas.

0
NettieSpaghetti

Thanks for the Obama quote. I didn't vote for Obama, but I'm not so ashamed of him now. I support Israel whole heartedly, and am glad to see he supports Israel also. 

0
158

Obama will be a strong supporter of Israel.

5
mahdi

lets say he is a slave of Israel.

0
mahdi

he could be fair at least for the beggining.

0
158

NOTICE TO ALL.

This article will not be allowed to become a propaganda picture site for either side. You can post relevant pictures but you CANNOT flood it with propaganda. I will allow one picture of Gaza casualties but not a flood of them.  The same goes for the Israeli side.



0
Albert Milliron

Well written story

0
158

Thank you.

0
158

Thanks.

0
Ben001

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Uwe Paschen
First Flagged at 7:59 AM, Jan 4, 2009 by Uwe Paschen
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