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Greyhound Bus Beheader Vince Li "Fit to Stand Trial" as Mom Calls for "Tim's Law"
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by Christina 123 | October 15, 2008 at 03:44 pm
2157 views | 6 Recommendations | 7 comments
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Carol DeDelley, mother of Tim McLean, 22, publicly and callously butchered on a Greyhound bus on its way to Manitoba, allegedly by drifter Vincent Li, 40. Li was found fit to stand trial last week, accused of Second Degree Murder, as the victims mother called for Tim's Law, vowing that her son's killer will "never walk free again". Li has waived hi sright to a preliminary hearing and his defence will be based on reports into in emotional state, it has been revealed.
WINNIPEG - She's calling it "Tim's Law" - a tribute to her slain son in the form of proposed legislation that would dramatically change the way the most dangerous among us are dealt with.
No second chances. No glimmer of hope. No parole. And, in extreme cases like that of her slain son, Tim McLean, an eye for an eye.
"I believe that if you voluntarily take an innocent life like what was done here, you should forfeit your own," Carol deDelley told the Free Press during an extensive interview Thursday. She believes in cases where there is absolutely "no doubt" about guilt that a murderer should either be executed or, at the very least, given life with no chance of parole.
Carol deDelley talks about her son Tim McLean in Winnipeg, Manitoba on Thursday. McLean was allegedly stabbed and beheaded by Vincent Li on board a Greyhound bus near Portage La Prarie, Man. Sept. 21, 2008. Li has been declared fit to stand trial. Mike Deal/Winnipeg Free Press
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She bristles every time she thinks about how her son died on board a Greyhound bus in July, but says it's important the public doesn't forget just how sadistic the killing was.
McLean, 22, was asleep on the bus when he was attacked, stabbed to death, decapitated and mutilated.
"The only thing I'm grateful for is that my son was decapitated first. How sad is that? But at least his soul was gone at that point and he didn't suffer. What a thing to be grateful for," said deDelley.
She says it's outrageous her son's alleged killer will have the chance to taste freedom again and is angry there are no provisions in Canadian law that ensure the most dangerous criminals are guaranteed to be locked up forever or given the ultimate penalty, death. She wants that to change - and is calling for the same public support which surrounded the family following McLean's death.
"Under no circumstances do I ever want this man walking free in public again. This shouldn't be acceptable to anyone," said deDelley. "I don't want to see any other family to go through this again."
Vincent Li, 40, is charged with second-degree murder for the attack which occurred on the Trans-Canada Highway near Portage la Prairie and made headlines around the world. Earlier this week, lawyers said Li's mental health has improved and he is now fit to stand trial.
No date has been set, but he has agreed to waive his right to a preliminary hearing.
The trial is expected to consist of several medical experts testifying about his emotional state.
"I'm not happy with any of the potential outcomes," said deDelley.
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Christina 123
LONDON, United Kingdom
Most RecentMost Recommended Comments (7)
at 15:59 on October 15th, 2008
Christina 123, I like this story. It's good stuff.
Why would it be 2nd degree murder? It should be 1st degree and the ultimate punishment out back of the courthouse after the trial.
at 16:51 on October 15th, 2008
Christina 123, I like this story. It's good stuff.
This is a terrible tragedy.
It's sad there are not tougher, fairer laws that can undeniably prevent any murderer that commits these heinous crimes to be able to conveniently lay down cleaver blocks
to try and build the insanity wall.
Their attorneys should go back to law school
and re-learn the phrase- "And Justice For All" What it really means.
Peace,
campanaro
at 17:03 on October 21st, 2008
I feel terrible for Tim's family, what a tragic event, I reach out and offer my deepest condolences.
The murderer: Li should be dealt with in a more absolute manner, I agree with Tim's mother: permanent incarceration or the death penalty should be the ONLY two options here.
I would have like this to have been a campaigne issue in the recent election: toughen the punishment for violent offenders and consider re-establishing capital punishment.
at 17:04 on October 26th, 2008
Christina 123, I like this story. It's good stuff.
Thanks, Christina. A mother's wraft is fearsome! The fact that this guy attacked someone he did not know from Adam, proceeded to decapitate him and eat his flesh is good enough for me to say "Not guilty by reason of insanity." Anyone who does not see that Li is sick is blind. I can see that Tim's mom is sick with grief and anger. But some of the people who replied to your original news article, Christine, sounded just as vengeful toward this psychiatric patient as she is, and that is inexcusable.
Does the public not understand what insanity is? Is anyone angry with a amputee with prosthetic legs for taking a long time to get on a bus and find a seat? Just as an amputee is missing important body parts, Li walks through life with part of his faculties missing. What's his story? How did he progress down the road from being a computer programmer or whatever to working at Wal-Mart? I have no doubt that somehow the warning signs were missed or ignored when Li needed hospitalization, just as the Virginia Tech massacre (32 dead!) occurred because a psychiatric patient was not forced to continue his therapy once he reached the age of consent.
What will we do? Wait on schizophrenic patients like Li to strike and then lock them in prison after each disaster like this, or will we create a mental health system equipped to safeguard against such tragedies by offering (and ENFORCING, when needed) the treatment and/or hospitalization for acute mental patients that they need and WE need for them to have? It simply does not make sense for the mental health system to depend on people with poor reasoning to recognize their own need and seek psychiatric treatment.
Do you want to know the truth, reading public? YOU probably have sat beside someone just as sick as Li more than once, and you may again tomorrow.
Mary Neal
http://wrongfuldeathoflarryneal.com
at 06:01 on October 28th, 2008
Please kick the psychiatrists out of the court system. They have no ability to judge a situation. Their treatments do not work. They are constantly violating the conflict of interest rules for doctors. They violate the Nuremburg Code by performing damaging treatments which are used as torture - such as Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy - a closed head injury masquerading as treatment. They damage people and then unleash them on the public. And they are funded and supported by government and protected by the College of Physicians and Surgeons. What corruption is here!!!!! And Vince Li is one of their products, paid for and funded by the tax payer. Oh, no!
at 15:40 on November 9th, 2008
Wow! Comparing a savage attack of this magnitude to an amputee finding a seat on a bus is REALLLY a stretch. Please don't minimize the pain this family is experiencing with psycho-babble. Yes, we need to monitor the mentally fragile more carefully, but there HAS to be complete and total accountability for actions regardless of mental state. This monster had the mental capacity to buy a bus ticket, to move his way to the back of the bus and to then attack an innocent bystander with a knife that didn't just fall into his hands (and then try to ESCAPE from the bus several times) - there is a case for some pre-meditation of this attack. I can see you want to save all of mankind, but this is the kind of person that there is absolutely no reason to save.
Your lack of sensitivity to this family that has lost a beloved family member so tragically is shocking!
at 08:14 on March 3rd, 2009
Yes, Li is a murderer, but he's an unusual type of murderer, and most of the posts on here demonstrate no understanding of mental illness---calling him a "monster" reflects this. Yes, Li was competent enough to buy a bus ticket and get on the bus with a knife, and kill and sadistically mutilate someone he didn't even know. That doesn't necessarily mean he "knew" what he was doing in the way we "know" what we're doing. I know a guy who when he was off his medication told me he honestly thought he was mario andretti and drove his car on regular roads as though he was driving on the circuit.
Did he get in the car with his keys and perpetrate a crime while driving. Yes. Did he premeditate doing that? It's complicated. When he was in his right mind, he was horrified at his behaviour (not to mention that he suffered the effects of other parts of his behaviour, for instance, he threw EVERYTHING out of his apartment that one person could carry, including most of the furniture). None of us would do that either.
When he was on his medications, he was a successful paralegal who was gentle and warm, a doting father who also volunteered in a soup kitchen helping down-and-outers.
Did he intentionally go off his medications? No. The problem is that if his dosage got even slightly off, he could easily start to become hallucinatory, and one of the first things that happens is that the person believes they don't need the drugs and then stops taking them. (It's natural, most of them have bad side-effects).
Should there be a law to keep him on his medications? Well, if medications were the "silver bullet" I would say yes. But at some point, many medications no longer work for a patient. Sometimes they need a lower/higher level, sometimes they need a totally new drug. So having a law forcing them to have a certain blood-level of a drug would be impossible to enforce and still wouldn't solve the problem. It would mean doctors would likely not be as motivated to find drugs with less side-effects because they can just force the patient to take whatever they think they need.
Should such a person be locked up because he might do something bad some day? That's what we did 50 years ago---and there's a reason we stopped doing it (and it's not just "leftist bleeding heart types" either). There's a 10 year old boy who needs his father in the case I refer to. Can you imagine what it would be like to be on medication (and therefore in your right mind) and locked up because you *might* cause harm to society some day?
Should my acquaintance lose his driver's licence? Now that I am more in favour of---minimize the possibilities. On the other hand, when he's on his medication, he is a careful driver. Should someone on anti-seizure medication be forbidden to drive because they might forget their pill some day? Driving in Canada isn't always a luxury.
There isn't a one-size-fits-all easy approach to this that will prevent all future events like this, and creating a one-size-fits-all policy won't provide closure for Tim McLean's family, it will only multiply injustice. As long as the medical review board is really doing their work, as long as the people assessing culpability are truly unbiased (there are doctors for the prosecution involved), then I don't know a better way of dealing with crimes committed while mentally incompetent.
Is it insensitive to the family to discuss this? Well, the family is going public with their opinion, and trying to sway the public. In a case like that, I think it's important to discuss in public that maybe their ideas aren't the best solution. We can try to empathize with their pain, and grieve with them, but allowing them to determine the policy for treating the thousands of people who have mental health issues or even the dozens who have committed serious crimes while insane, is not the best move.