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Greyhound Bus Beheader Vince Li May Have Been Influenced by WINDIGO Article
by Christina 123 | August 12, 2008 at 11:50 am | 1542 views | 18 comments | 11 recommendations
Ethno-Historian Nathan Carlson has expressed a view to the EDMONTON SUN that crazed Bus Beheader Vince Li, 40, may have been influenced by an article in which Nathan Carlson was interviewed on the topic of Windigo, an ancient folk spirit that supposedly haunted Alberta, in one of the newspapers on his PAPER DELIVERY ROUND, and perhaps triggering Li's troubled imagination.
Nathan Carlson (unverified) has made it clear to NOW PUBLIC that he objects to the almost inevitable sensationalisation of his views.
A post here is an interesting cross reference, to a Rob Peters highlighted story:
http://www.nowpublic.com/strange/1879-man-hanged-eating-family
And another great article here:
http://dinojoe.8m.com/crypto/windigo.html
The Greyhound bus traverses vast stretches of lonely wind swept prairie...
On July 20 -- just 10 days before the killing -- Li delivered copies of the Edmonton Sun that contained an extensive interview with Carlson about his research into the Windigo, a terrifying creature in native mythology that has a ravenous appetite for human flesh. It could take possession of people and turn them into cannibalistic monsters.
The feature talked about how in the late 1800s and into the 20th century, Windigo "encounters" haunted communities across northern Alberta and resulted in dozens of gruesome deaths.
'TOO MANY PARALLELS'
Several media reports called McLean Jr.'s killing unprecedented -- an unspeakable, random attack never before seen in Canada.
But Carlson said he knows better. "There are just too many parallels," he said. "I can't say there's definite connection, but there are just too many coincidences. It's beyond eerie."
August 12, 2008 at 11:50 am by Christina 123, 1542 views, 18 comments
Crowd Power
Christina 123
LONDON, United Kingdom
Most RecentMost Recommended Comments (18)
at 12:37 on August 12th, 2008
Christina 123, I like this story. It's good stuff. Very unlikely that this is true, but it is still a very interesting angle to look at this situation from.
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Nathan Carlson (not verified)at 12:45 on August 12th, 2008
I did NOT say he was possessed. Please stop circulating unsubstantiated facts...you are hurting my reputation as a scholar. Windigo cases did happen in the past and I have stacks of evidence to prove it. I have not said anywhere that I BELIEVE that windigo is caused by an evil spirit...but it did happen. I said there might have been a coincidence between the bus and the NEWSPAPER ARTICLE (i.e. he read it, and being schizophrenic, might have recieved an IDEA). Please stop saying I said he was POSSESSED. I know some people out there are saying that, but I am NOT one of them. All you are doing is making me sound like a crackpot, and I can tell you that I am a very credible scholar and I would not make such claims. Whoever is posting this stuff, please stop...for both my sake, and for the family of this poor man. Only time will tell if there is a connection between the paper and the case. I don't appreciate you posting false claims about me...you are putting words in my mouth.
at 12:52 on August 12th, 2008
Calm down, Nathan, I'll edit the story accordingly! Thanks for drawing my attention to this and I am sorry if any offence was caused you by this.
at 12:49 on August 12th, 2008
Thanks, Gh0s7 - it's kinda spooky, just as I was uploading the WINDIGO pics, a light bulb nearby me exploded with a bang! Have shattered lighbulb all over the sofa, but no damage done - that has never happened before...(...theme from the twilight zone...).
I have never heard of a Windigo before, but if it is myth based on folklore taboo, it implies that a person would need to have consumed human flesh first before, so is there a message there...?
at 13:58 on August 12th, 2008
Christina 123, I like this story. It's good stuff.
Mr. Carlson said something worth noting: He said, " . . . there might have been a coincidence between the bus and the NEWSPAPER ARTICLE (i.e. he read it, and being schizophrenic, might have recieved an IDEA)." I was very disturbed at something I observed one day when I visited my mentally ill relative in a community care home, having been released into society after being in a mental hospital for more than 20 years. As I waited for my relative to join me in the lobby and visit a while, I sat in the recreation room with about seven mental patients who also lived there. Their full attention was on the television where they were watching Friday the 13th, a movie about the crazed killer, Jason. Therefore, I do not believe that community care centers provide the level protection and care to address the needs of many acute mental patients and protect society.
Mary Neal
Assistance to the Incarcerated Mentally Ill
Website: http://wrongfuldeathoflarryneal.com
at 14:22 on August 12th, 2008
Thanks Mary! Saw an interesting post here (no idea if it is authentic, as it is called "hoax forums"):
[q url=http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forums/viewthread/7373/P11/#313891]
at 15:02 on August 12th, 2008
Yup. Undiagnosed bipolar paranoid schizophrenic. Nasty mix!
at 15:09 on August 12th, 2008
Thanks moonwolf! I wonder if it is meanignful to ascribe all sorts of mental illnesses to someone, just because they commit a crime we do no understand. He could just as easily be a Psychopath/Sociopath/Anti-Social Behaviour Syndrome sufferer (Personality Disorder, rather than mentally ill) - or maybe he just had a one-off brain storm. Maybe he had Windigo Psychosis.
at 15:53 on August 12th, 2008
Christina,
He displays none of the indicators of a psychopathic/sociopathic personality. I deal with several young people who suffer from bipolar, paranoid schizophrenia and what we know of his behavior previous to this crime so far bears an uncanny resemblance to what they were like before diagnosis and treatment. I hate to think of what might have happened to them or those around them if the disease had gone undiagnosed until they were Li's age!
As to meaningful, and we won't get into a philosophical discussion about that term right now, every opinion or conclusion I read or see about this man is total speculation, including the inferences in your article, but human nature is such that we all want and need an explanation for a terrible crime like this. So in the absence of real, hard information we talk and search for meaning and speculate.
at 13:35 on August 13th, 2008
Hi moonwolf! Sure it's armchair speculation; only the shrinks who assess the guy will be able to offer a proper opinion. However, I am not sure he is schizophrenic, but may be paranoid since it is reported he thought people were after him, but both schizoid personality and paranoid personality can be manifested as personality disorders rather than full blown mental illness per se. As you know the group of traits classed as "personality disorder" are quite separate from "mental illness" as the latter causes the sufferer distress, whereas most sociopaths, do not seek help as it does nto distress them, and which is why it is so incurable to treat. Psychosis tends to be self-limitng and goes into remission.
What is salient about Li's behaviour in my mind is that according to witnesses on the bus he did not exhibit any frenzy, fear or anger when he perpetrated hsi atrocious act, on the contrary, he was reported as being completely calm and robotic. This seeming callousness, and his drifting and chaotic lifestyle, plus many thought he was "charming" is why I suggested he may be a sociopath.
- reply
Nathan Carlson (not verified)at 08:21 on August 13th, 2008
Nathan here.
He has many of the alleged symptoms of 'windigo psychosis', except windigo psychosis does not exist..it is something else. For instance, I have several recorded accounts showing how 2 or more people got this condition simultaneously. How does a mental illness become epidemic? If it is mental, how do people manifest physical symptoms like swelling? What makes people eat other people? There are things we just don't know about the dark recesses of the human mind. The human lymbic system is supposed to be inherited from our reptilian ancestors if you ascribe to evolution. There's 4 billion years worth of primeval memories and behaviours buried in our brains. How can we claim to know what is in the human mind unequivocably?
Mental illness...spirit possession...maybe two sides of the same coin depending on what your emistemological framework is? Think before you write!
at 13:22 on August 13th, 2008
Nathan, you raise some interesting points. The reason I highlighted the article was because it fascinated me. I am interested in what makes people tick, hence have academically studied anthropology, criminology and the humanities in general. I did not recall having heard of Windigos and it appealed to my imagination. I was very interested a few years ago in an event that happened in British Columbia 1862 when five Englishmen, three of them brothers named Gilbert, William and Thomas, who joined the Gold Rush, together with two chaps named John Wright and John Helstone. They became stranded for the winter after wrecking their boat on the rapids near Peace River (Fort Edmonton). Two of the Wright brothers went to look for help and when a party of four native American "Indians" finally went to search for the three stranded men and found them at Fraser River, they discovered two of the men eating the third! The two remaining castaways pulled a gun on the four Indians who were forced to leave. These men were so incensed by the cannibalism as they lived in mortal fear of it, went back to execute the men. They found just one man alive this time and hatcheted him to death.
So although the youner Rennie had been cannibalised to keep the other two men alive, it was still seen as a heinous crime and the two men were too crazed to accept help from the four Indians who came to their rescue.
I will be the first to read your book when it comes out, Nathan! Thanks for your perspicacious comments.
at 12:17 on August 16th, 2008
Nathan, I hear you--and your concern for not being misquoted. The thing that people keep missing is that this legend is based on an Anishinabe (Ojibwe, Chippewa are other names used for these peoples) story that is actually part of a very complex spiritual system. The creation of non-existent mental "diseases" or rush to assign a "creepy" cause for a nutjob's actions isn't a good thing. It's just "dumbing down" some pretty important stuff.
at 08:31 on August 13th, 2008
Christina 123, I like this story. It's good stuff. I totally must have missed this post! Interesting, to say the least!
at 12:56 on August 13th, 2008
Thanks, Paschen! I wrote a "tabloid style" SUN reader type write up and it backfired (e.g.,."POSSESSED" AND "EVIL SPIRIT") which upset Nathan Carlson. I did put my hand up, apologised to Nathan Carlson, and modified the piece.
at 12:19 on August 16th, 2008
Good for you. If there is a "coincidence," it's only one that could have happened with anything that triggered the attacker. He could have seen something in a movie, or even a picture on an advertisement at a movie theater. No one will ever really know, most likely.
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Hobb (not verified)at 20:18 on August 19th, 2008
Speaking of "coincidence"...
On the night of the brutal murder, strange and powerful things were happening in the Canadian night sky as unexplained explosions occurred above both Lake Huron and Baffin Island
"Something pretty significant exploded south and west of Goderich and Kincardine," said Dr. Peter Brown, associate professor in the department of physics and astronomy at Western and the Canada Research Chair of meteor science. "It could have exploded out in Lake Huron." [http://www.kincardinenews.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1153904]
And...
"The Canadian military is sending a long-range Aurora aircraft to investigate reports of a mysterious explosion along Canada's Northwest Passage that may have killed several whales." [http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=46bcc3e3-d4d1-4cb4-a024-902ef385a602]
So when I read the comment about the exploding lightbulb I just had to post this.
If you want me to put on my storyteller cap I'd suggest that these explosions are being caused by the strong electromagnetic disturbances of cannibal-spirits reentering our reality....
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Hobb (not verified)at 20:32 on August 19th, 2008
One more "coincidence"...
The movie playing on the Greyhound bus that night was 'The Legend of Zorro' which has plenty of blade-related violence including the "chief henchman [being] dispatched via messy (and crowd-pleasing!) decapitation." [http://www.filmfreakcentral.net/screenreviews/legendofzorro.htm]
Again, if I can put on my storyteller cap, is it kinda spooky to imagine a 'messy decapitation' being shown on dozens of television screen throughout that Greyhound considering what occured.
I mean no disrespect to the grieving family and friends - I just found these 'coincidences' eerie.