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Islam and Human Rights
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by literaryguru | June 2, 2011 at 05:47 pm
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“All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.”
This essential belief is the foundation for any truly free society and it is codified as Article 1 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Moreover, the specific rights required for a society to be truly just and righteous are further defined as the freedom of speech, freedom of belief, freedom from want, and freedom from fear. In Western society, these rights are extended to everyone, regardless of gender, age or race. We have come to cherish and expect these rights and have been willing to fight and to die to uphold them. If we were to be denied them as a society, it would be an act of war against our freedom, our democratic principles and the very essence of what we call justice. The history of the civilized world has been an ongoing struggle to maintain these principles so we can live at peace with ourselves, in our relationships and with the community that surrounds us. A State that guarantees these rights brings stability and sustainability to its citizens, in that everyone has a voice, a vote and the right to live a peaceful life free of oppression. While we carry the conviction that this is the most humane way to structure a society, there is a completely different structure competing for control on the planet and it has a very different version of how justice is defined. This system of social control is incompatible with our stated values and therefore works to undermine and replace them. This system is Islam.
While there are multiple beliefs in Islam that conflict with our belief in human rights, for the sake of brevity, I will concentrate on two that confirm its incompatibility. First, there is the hard-fought Western belief that women are equal to men. The civilized world has come to accept this as an absolute truth. It is explicit in our laws, shared in our conventional and normative beliefs and we value this conviction as much as we value the half of society this principle protects. Women are ensured the right to vote, free speech, the right to hold political office and all the rest of the rights afforded men in our free society. This is not the case in a civilization structured on Islamic law. The source of this discrepancy is the Quran itself. Regardless of which of the five main schools of Islam a Muslim adheres to, the Quran is viewed as a perfect book and the words and directives within are seen as absolute and void of error. In 4:34 of the Quran, it states very clearly, “Men are superior to women.” This directive is taken very seriously in Islam and is the source of all oppression of women in the Muslim world. It is why women cannot vote or even drive in Saudi Arabia; it is why women are whipped for wearing pants in Sudan and it is why the women of Iran must cover their entire bodies, except their face, according to that government’s laws. The Iranian police have even gone so far as to warn women against smiling in public, as this may arouse “satanic desires.” Even in Indonesia, the largest and most moderate of Muslim countries in the spectrum of Islamic societies, it is illegal for women to wear short skirts or even blue jeans and it is common for them to suffer intolerable conditions in the workplace, simply because of their gender. Where Islam is the dominant ideology, women are not equal and do not share the same freedoms and rights as a man. This is an incontrovertible fact.
The second essential right that forms the basis of a free civilization is freedom of belief. In Western society we put a high value on being able to formulate our own reasons for living, values to live by, political persuasions and the ability to criticise and debate others in a non-threatening, constructive manner. Most importantly, we value the right to change our minds as we develop intellectually throughout our lives. We resent wholeheartedly even the idea of a government that takes this right away from us. This right is a core value of our civilized world. This is not the case in Islam. Again, in all six of the main schools of Islam, there are laws pertaining to apostasy that directly contradict this freedom and the directives for breaking this directive are clear: anyone who chooses to leave Islam must be killed. In the Sahih al-Bukhari, the most trusted hadith of Sunni Islam, the directive for leaving Islam is unambiguous. It says, “Whoever changed his (Islamic) religion, then kill him" (Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:57) In the Shia hadiths, the directive for apostasy is no different. Here, the order for apostasy is: “he should be given the chance to repent, otherwise killed" (Al-Kafi 7:257 | 10). In the Quran itself, a Muslim who turns away from Islam is despised by Allah, who will deal with the matter in the afterlife. As you can imagine, being despised by Allah does not leave one in a position of equal social standing in a Muslim society. These fundamental beliefs regarding the decision to change one’s mind regarding spiritual belief in Islamic culture have had a profound effect on the ability of Islamic society to embrace this essential human right. For example, in Egypt –a society that claims to be secular but is still held to Islamic convictions and values, when asked in a poll conducted by the Pew Research Group as to what should be done with those who change their minds about being Muslim, eighty-two percent of Egyptians agreed they should be stoned to death. This staggering statistic comes from a moderately Islamic nation. In a State founded wholly on Islamic law, this percentage is even higher. In Islam, freedom of belief does not exist.
These two examples of conflict in belief between Islam and Western commitments to a universal system of human rights expose how one can never be compatible with the other. Our principles of humanism undermine core principles of Islamic law, belief and tradition and their principles of Islamism undermine our hard-fought convictions for an equal society for all. This is a frustrating yet inescapable truth. In Western societies, the misogynist, undemocratic principles found in ancient Judaeo-Christian scripture were weeded out during the Enlightenment and rejected through a long human rights struggle fought by heroic men and women, many of which died for that cause. We now enjoy these rights proudly and unapologetically. We expect them from our government, our society and our community. We also expect the right to openly criticise any belief system that encroaches on those rights, as I have just done. The first line of defence to protect those rights and ensure their survival is to be aware of social structures that oppose them. This criticism is not directed at the individuals who choose to believe in Allah as their supreme being; that is their right. It is directed at the directives contained within the scripture and rhetoric of Islam; those directives that affect others in an Islamic society and beyond. It is the rights of those “others” that deserve protection. All men and women on this planet should be allowed to live with dignity and it is the responsibility of all to act “with reason and conscience” to ensure this is the case.
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literaryguru
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World_Groove
Gated compound in the woods., Pacific N.W., United States
Most RecentMost Recommended Comments (65)
at 21:52 on June 2nd, 2011
Hateful warmongering rubish with aims upon justifying more violence in the middle east.
Religion as a cause for war.
Begin The Rambling Rant:
I challenge anyone to pick up a few books at the library and read more than one view point concerning the history of violence and injustice in the Middle East, and the factual history of who has perpetuated violence most frequently in the region, and what religion has done more for Art and Science.
There are many one sided and half realized notions in this story.... It fails to address those individuals who wish to live under the guidance of Islam. In America, a nation founded on Individual freedoms as well as religious freedoms, you can perty much do whatever you want in the name of religion excepting sexual relation with minors or more than one legal marriage. But one has to ask why great nations with this same guiding principal spew rhetoric of the evils and ills of Islam? All nations do not need to have religious freedoms, All nations do not need to be non secular. All Nations of the world do not need subscribe to the ideals of western nations, whatever they may be. If a Berber in Morocco chooses to live his life without ever seeing a computer, so be it, it is his life. If a Bedouin in the great Al-Nefud desert chooses only his camel for company and a black tent for a home, so be it, it is his life.
Our only concern as people of the world with anyone living in a Islamic nation or under Islamic law should be confined to acts of terror or violence committed by individuals of the religion against other nations, and with "pleas to for asylum" from individuals of those Nations. Most Muslims choose to live under the guiding rules of Islam and for those people we need honor the "wishes of the individual", Individuals who seek to live their life in their own way.... live and let live. But yes, by all means have a system in place to accept those who seek to flee their nation, and dialog with the governments of those nations to facilitate it.
In America we are brought up with the notion of our abilities to live the life we choose. We have no right to bring our will to bear upon other nations who have a people who choose to live their lives in their own way, a way differently than ours.
Stop trying to make people live the way you want them to.
at 05:40 on June 15th, 2011
This post points out that women are oppressed by Islam. Furthermore, Islam is intolerant of non-believers. When Islam becomes institutionalized in nation states, the behavior becomes threatening to individual freedom. The world is too small to accept intolerance of this nature and that is why, I think, Islam is intolerable. Freedom is a right of everyone everywhere.
at 22:03 on June 2nd, 2011
World-Groove, by this logic, we should have allowed the Nazis to kill the Jews, as this was their choice of government. They chose Hitler as their leader and, therefore, subscribed to his oppressive regime's ideology. I completely reject this relativist thinking. The violence that is committed against women and non-Muslims in Islamic nations is not something we should ignore, if we are to consider ourselves civilized human beings. If your neighbour was beating his wife, you would hopefully intervene, or, at the very least, criticise him for his actions. In southern Sudan, 2.2 million people have been killed by the Islamic regime in Khartoum in a self-described Jihad. Millions of women and non-Muslims live in terror the world over because of an ideology that leaves them powerless and voiceless. Oppression such as this cannot go unanswered, regardless of where it takes place. We have the freedom to speak, so that is what I will do.
at 22:21 on June 2nd, 2011
guru man theres no way to compare the stuff that happened in ww2 to the now governments and peoples of the middle east. thats one big leap of logic dude. nazis, neonazi and the clan are bad dudes that live on hate and violence. we got so many worse problems in my city than the stuff you talk about. we cant solve it here under our laws how can we solve anything somewhere else? thats just crazy talk. sounds like your just a hater and want someone to blaim. id worry about your own back door man and not someone elses.
at 23:28 on June 2nd, 2011
So, you're saying we should just ignore human rights atrocities committed elsewhere in the world? We should just be silent and mind our own business? As for the Nazi comparison, it is very fair. 2.2 million killed in Sudan alone justifies it and I doubt very much you have had millions killed in your city. The 14 million Copts in Egypt that are terrorized and oppressed under the paradigm of Islam also justifies the reference to the genocide carried out by the Nazis. The problem is, you are just not aware of what people are dealing with in these places. If you are aware and still feel we should just ignore it and never criticise it, then I really have nothing left to say to you.
at 10:44 on June 3rd, 2011
Literaryguru,
I'll be back with more comments to this story and indeed to your comments on your story later to the day or tomorrow. (Jump for Joy Everyone!! yea... I know you are all rolling your eyes..but, I don't mind being unpopular.)
I'll leave you with this question:
Have you read the Koran Cover to Cover?
(It seems you cut and pasted some tasy nuggets....which themselves do not contain the full context or explanation)
at 11:25 on June 3rd, 2011
I have certainly read the Quran, cover to cover, and multiple versions of it. I have also critically analysed it in essays and have written extensively on the precursors to Islam (see my Nowpublic article on the history of Jihad). Moreover, I have read and analysed many hadith in Sunni and Shia Islam and have studied the biographical accounts of their authors, with particular attention paid to the geopolitical climates and the resulting political pressures involved. I have also studied modern interpretations of Islamic scripture by mainstream Shia and Sunni clerics and fringe Muslims with interpretations that attempt to temper the rhetoric and the reactions they have elicited from mainstream Islam for their attempts to do so.
at 08:25 on June 4th, 2011
"I WILL SHOW YOU MINE IF YOU SHOW ME YOURS"
After reading through all the comments which have been added to this story, and after careful consideration on the matter, I have decided that a photo response might be the best course of action. I am not sure if I will be back for further comments. Given what seems to me to be concrete opinions which are hard set in immobile foundations.
Best Wishes,
World_Groove
"I like to play the Court Jester, but I am not a fool"
at 05:59 on June 15th, 2011
If Muslims and Jews, Christians or any other religion has a place in the world, it does so by accommodating and respecting the beliefs of others. All have a right to coexistence, I believe. If anyone in any religion can't live with that, then they have chosen a course of conflict.
Nation states that adopt democratic principles and commitment to individual freedom and accommodate freedom of beliefs among citizens to the extent that believers are tolerant of others.
As the article points out, Islam does not accommodate equal rights and is intolerant. Therefore, it is unacceptable.
at 22:43 on June 2nd, 2011
We can only help those who seek to be freed from the confines of religous oppresion or cults. We can not give in to open religous persecution of other peoples or cultures. All too often advanced civilizations have wronged what they deem as less advanced civilizations in the name of doing the right thing, only to be remembered in history books for their wrong doings.
at 23:36 on June 2nd, 2011
Criticising a religion that condones stoning women to death for having been raped and having exposed the rapist is not a condescending action pushed on a "lesser civilization." It's a necessary criticism. I'm sure the "history books" will condemn this type of activity just as much as I have. Moreover, you seem to be assuming these people can"choose" to leave the cult of Islam in their home countries. They can't. If they leave Islam, they can be arrested for apostasy and killed in many Muslim countries and few have the resources to leave.
at 05:47 on June 15th, 2011
...which is why we are at war with nation states and tyrannical leaders that exploit Islam to oppress people.
at 22:56 on June 2nd, 2011
We can only help those who seek to be free from the confines of religous oppresion or cults. We can not give in to open religous persecution of other peoples or cultures. All too often advanced civilizations have "helped" what they deem as socially less advanced civilizations in the name of doing the right thing, only to be remembered in history books for the wrong of their acts.
at 23:54 on June 2nd, 2011
What I have argued here is quite simple really. Either you embrace the Universal Declaration of Human Rights or you reject it. Either every human being on the planet has the right to live a life of dignity or they don't. As the evidence has proven, Islam rejects these universal rights. You either believe we should allow foreign countries to oppress, terrorize and dominate their populace or you believe we should criticise and pressure them to desist in these behaviours.
It's easy to say "they want to live that way" when you live here and are ignorant to the millions who give up their lives fighting this oppression under these regimes. It is also important to remember these oppressors move here and continue these behaviours within their own families. Women in Canada whose husbands subscribe to fundamentalist Islam are still abused. Misogyny doesn't recognize international boundaries. Where you have been fooled, is the inclination to respect these behaviours, no matter how horrific they may be, because it is a religion that causes it and you have been indoctrinated into believing we should respect all religious belief and the cultures therein. For me, hiding behind imaginary beings is no excuse.
at 23:56 on June 2nd, 2011
What does this stories logic tell us to do by default to other religions?
Attack the Vatican for not allowing women into the priesthood!
Attack the Vatican for making nuns wear those ugly habbits!
Attack the Vatican for making members of the clergy be celibate!
Attack the Vatican for not allowing the use of condoms!
Misogyny a major claim in your story presents so many more issues, shall we attack any person who reads or worse believes a misogynistic phrase from the bible or other holy book?"
Take a look at Timothy 2:12 or the dozens of other instances of christian sexist behavior from the bible. How about the Torah and Orthodox Jewish who have many traditions simular to Islam?
You are young and intelligent I can tell, and It is good to have passion. But don't let a reading of "Behind the Veil" and the words of a few admired professors and those on campus womens rights groups send you down a path of extremism with blinders and a singular hate.
Respect,
CrazEtalK
at 00:09 on June 3rd, 2011
The Vatican isn't condoning Catholics to stone women to death for having sex outside of marriage. Catholicism doesn't dictate the death penalty to those who leave the faith. Christianity went through the Enlightenment and these problems are no longer an issue. There is no modern-day crusade being conducted by the Catholic Church where millions are being killed as there is with modern-day Jihads, like the Sudan or what occurred in East Timor (500 000 dead). Christians are not blowing themselves up in public places to kill the non-believers. There is no Christian equivalent to Al Qaida. Moreover, women's rights groups and campus professors are strangely silent on this issue. No one wants to blame Islam for the actions their scripture condones. This is changing, slowly, but it is still a difficult criticism to advance. Many have died at the hands of jihadis for criticising Islam. That alone should be a red flag.
at 01:09 on June 3rd, 2011
Your points and goals can only result in the stripping away of a culture from a people who wish to keep it. In essence this forcing of what you perceive as your well intentioned will, results in rape of a society. In essence you seem to say past wrong doings of the Catholics are forgiven, even if the mysogynistic text remains. In essence you seem to forgive all other religions of wrong doings past or present, but wish Islam and the Muslim culture pain and suffering because they choose to live in their traditional ways with their traditional beliefs. In essence the atrocities of the world are fully atributed to Islam when it is most comonly done in the name of tribal warefare, ethnic clensing, and politics unrelated to the religion. Yet at times coruption of religion has been used to further these other causes. In East Timor I think you are mixing up the Indonesian rebellion. I have never seen the atrocities atributed to only Muslims or even in the name of Islam at all. I seem to recal Christians being part of the violence. That movement was Anti Communist as I recall, and I believe backed by the US Goverment. In Sudan, an issue I am not well read on, I believe it is a case of race and tribal bloodlines and not religion per say. As with Pakistan and India we have the further issue of former British occupation, mismanagement and withdrawl which is well known to have caused destabalization in other regions. In matters of Christians not blowing themselves up. No, Christians have better weapons at their disposal and often find non religous excuses to kill. You are again mixing up issues and facts. The Palestinian/Israeli issue is far beyond an issue of religion and the killing of infidels. In matters of no blame for Islam. You must live on a different planet than me with a different news service. Everything possible anti-Islam has been in my news non stop since 911. In matters of death for critisism of religion, Christians were master teachers. Do you recall the Spanish Inquisition? Respect, CrazEtalK
at 07:04 on June 3rd, 2011
On the contrary, you are giving modern Islam a pass because of the atrocities committed by ancient Christianity..
As for East Timor, I am well versed on the subject. This was the largest Muslim nation on earth attacking its Christian neighbour. The military chain of command told the officers and soldiers it was a jihad. Christians were rounded up and forced into churches. They told them to send out their Christian leaders, who were then beheaded. There were 5000+ documented cases of forced conversions (forced circumcisions and clytorectomies), after which Muslim clerics urinated on the wounds. Sueharto (Indonesian President) was secular, yes, and the government had American backing, as they blamed the rise of communism, but the campaign was inspired by Islamism on the ground. As for Sudan, there is no debate. That is a religious war with Islam being the aggressor. With 2.2. million dead, it is important to note how under-reported this struggle is, considering there have only been 4000 Palestinians civilians killed since 1948 and the world obsesses over that conflict.
at 07:11 on June 3rd, 2011
Moreover, it isn't a tribal battle in Sudan at all. It is the Arab Islamists in the north trying to establish an Islamic State under Sharia Law that encompasses the north and the south, which is largely occupied by Christians, animists and black Muslims who do not have the same goals as the Muslims in the north.
at 10:37 on June 3rd, 2011
Literaryguru,
I do not want to attack your intellect, you are the one getting a "degree" something this dumb country boy does not have. You obviously have amazing linguistic skills and an ability to write.
EAST TIMOR
You have just claimed to be well versed on the subject of East Timor, but in your earlier comment you had distorted facts and figures attributed to the happenings and in fact originally quoted death totals that are assumed for Indonesia in the fight against the Communist party in their country, this was before the invasion of East Timor.
More blame in these death stains the hands of the United States than Islam in these issues. We gave them the weapons, we perused a policy of "no comment" in the East Timor invasion and we in fact knew of the intention in advance through what was essentially an official appeal for US approval, which was granted through "silence".
It seems to me that you are either part of or falling victim to a revisionist movement of history which seeks to find every world crises which a Muslim was/is part of and use it in a case to promote a war agenda (or other agenda) against every Islamic State or Country made up a majority Muslim population. The more spectacular the action taken by a Muslim the better the revisionist story becomes.
Strange that when in this instance Muslims are involved in a fight against communism, it is bad evil Islam, but when Americans of the era fought against communism it is "Good Righteous Christian America". That is the brilliance of revisionism.
SUDAN
Again admitting full well this is not directly in my body of well read topics, but I think another comment posted here has it about right. Sudan was bi-polar, and this split identity which only became worse in the vacuum of British power after their departure. Sudan had two distinct areas with many areas within each region which had its own agenda. This region is well steeped in a quasi tribal atmosphere of politics. The country described as "starkly divided....country on racial, religious, and regional grounds". We do not know the number of deaths, we will never know the number of deaths, it is and unfortunately shall remain "un knowable". The death total by direct action of war and violence is still unfathomable for both sides, but lets consider that a much larger number of deaths were the result of starvation due to the destabilized infrastructure of this bi polar nation and lack of International Aid. My point here is yet again you place the finger of blame towards Islam without having or if having sharing the wealth of knowledge about all the other issues at play.
Palestinians killed since 1948
While this is an issue I can normally debate on....I don't have time available in the next couple weeks to tackle this issue. It is SUCH a hot button topic and it takes too much time to prove all the randomly quoted misinformation and accusations wrong or at the very least answer to the hundreds of unsubstantiated and indeed impossible to substantiate statements made in this issue. I will say however your time structure (1942) leaves out the 3,000 killed in 1939 in a 10/1 ratio. And ignoring your well placed qualifier of "Civilians" (If there is a war, and people around me are dieing, and I pick up a rock in defense, am I still a civilian?) 15,000 Palestinians who had fled to Lebanon who were part of the 40 to 50,000 killed in 1982 by Israel (Itself loosing 500). In that action it is said that roughly 85% of the first 15,000 or so people who were killed by Israeli armed forces were civilians. (while generally solid numbers these are off the top of my head)
I just ask people not to give in to war mongering and religious persecution. I ask people to not take the news and indeed all recently written history at face value.
Thus ends today's Ramble #2
at 11:17 on June 3rd, 2011
I just finished examining the East Timor conflict in four months of classes that required multiple essays where I read and cited 40+ books on the subject. The death toll estimates range from 200000-600000. I went with 500000 because, after all the literature I read, that is what I feel is a correct estimate. This has been surmised taking in several factors, including Indonesian cover-ups, etc.
As to this being an Islamic military action, I wrote my final essay arguing this was the case. I found ample evidence in many scholarly, vetted sources to support my conclusions. From eye-witness testimony to the physical evidence of the forced conversions and beheadings, to statements made by Islamic leaders within the military before, during and after the conflict. I would be more than willing to send you a copy of the essay, with a list of the citations so you can see the evidence for yourself. Just PM me an email address to send it to. It's incontrovertible and the grade I got on it reflected the strength of my argument and the evidence I used to support it. The version of events you subscribe to lacks this massive amounts of evidence that has been left out of the mainstream dialogue on this subject. There is a systemic problem in academia in its failure to properly critically analyse Islam for fear of offending Islamic institutions, so it tends to get left out of the narrative, as it did in East Timor. I, on the other hand, don't let this bias affect my research.
"Palestinians killed since 1948"
My numbers are correct and well documented.
"SUDAN
"Again admitting full well this is not directly in my body of well read topics,"
I am very well read on this subject and I can assure you, Islam is the inspiration for the violence against the southern groups. The north calls it a jihad. You can't get any clearer than that.
at 05:54 on June 15th, 2011
In my opinion, religion is obsolete. It was a man-made invention that evolved over time into a variety of faiths intended to bring order to people struggling to cope. Governments replaced religion in many places, and religion and government are in a struggle or mortal combat in others. When people adopt core values as the American experience, they have a chance to move beyond. Also in America, most people have not yet made the intellectual leap beyond religion. They are afraid to confront reality.
at 06:01 on June 15th, 2011
In my opinion. all religions are open to criticism. When people stop thinking, whether bound by religion or any other institution that fails to grow by living and breathing change, all progress stops too.
at 00:04 on June 3rd, 2011
What does this stories logic tell us to do by default to other religions?
Attack the Vatican for not allowing women into the priesthood!
Attack the Vatican for making nuns wear those ugly habbits!
Attack the Vatican for making members of the clergy be celibate!
Attack the Vatican for not allowing the use of condoms!
Misogyny a major claim in your story presents so many more issues, shall we attack any person who reads or worse believes a misogynistic phrase from the bible or other holy book?"
Take a look at Timothy 2:12 or the dozens of other instances of christian sexist behavior from the bible. How about the Torah and Orthodox Jewish who have many traditions simular to Islam?
You are young and intelligent I can tell, and It is good to have passion. But don't let a reading of "Behind the Veil" and the words of a few admired professors and those on campus womens rights groups send you down a path of extremism with blinders and a singular hate.
Respect,
CrazEtalK
at 00:17 on June 3rd, 2011
In addition, I have never read "Behind the Veil" and I don't see how criticising the abuse of women and minorities could possibly be defined as "a path of extremism with blinders and a singular hate."
at 01:45 on June 3rd, 2011
I think the point you are missing literary guru is that your article and posts read as nearly pure Anti-Islam and If I am following the conversations corectly the warning is that your passion is leading you to a place of extremism and hate. Extremism is a bad and ugly place and Hate does not have a moral highground. I think if what I am reading of your goals is correct your mission should be to help Muslim women in need and not to bring about death and destruction through the spread of half truths misinformation whether intentional or not. How many innocent women will die if your harsh words and hate help provoke a war? That is something to ponder. GG
at 07:16 on June 3rd, 2011
I am not "anti-Islam." I am pro-human rights. There is a big difference. Any religion that oppresses and denies universal human rights deserves to be criticised for it. Islam does not get a pass. Until Muslims accept the fallibility of their religious doctrine and accept criticism of it, this pressure will continue and it will grow. The Taliban structured their society using the Quran as law. That resulted in one of the most oppressive regimes the world over. Millions in the Middle East are rising up against this oppression now. I am not anti-Muslim. I have many friends who are Muslim. I stand against violence and oppression when it uses religion as an excuse.
at 10:56 on June 3rd, 2011
So, your argument is to tolerate and never criticise the oppression and violence targeting women and the disenfranchised in Islamic countries so they don't think we hate them? We should just be quiet and let them commit this violence without any reaction whatsoever?
I would also like to know what "half truths" you are accusing me of making.
at 02:13 on June 3rd, 2011
Those attempting to categorize this article as hateful need to redo a reading comprehension skills program.
I agree with the article that Universal Human Rights are paramount and those nations not conforming need to be criticized, cajoled, and even coerced by all until there is compliance. It takes away nothing from Islam or any nations culture to respect the individual and their decisions as to how they wish to live their lives.
The resent upheavals in Islamic countries in N. Africa and the Mid-East show conclusively that the people want more social freedoms. And much of that social freedom comes with a reinterpretation of Islam and it's effects on social expression.
at 09:08 on June 3rd, 2011
Thirty-aught-six,
Sometimes reading comprehension skills go beyond what is written when you take on a gestalt vision when analyzing text you are presented with. I personally do not take anything at face value (whether the writing represents my ideals or not). I look to understand the whole the best I can not just what I am told by newspapers or things written as fact by writers.
I am justified in this belief when an author so easily is swayed into exposing their core beliefs when prodded. When a surface story of freedom, particularly Women's freedom, is exposed later as a hate of Islam with many inaccurate statements of fact and history.
While there are some undeniable basic tenants of Human Rights, In this I agree. I stand firm in a policy of accepting other cultures religious beliefs and cultural preferences. I stand by the greater concept of not placing blame for a whole religious system upon the whole body of people that practice that religion when the minority create a problem.
I take issue with your final statement in that in Egypt per say, the issue wasn't "freedom," It was not oppression by Islam, as Egypt has always been one of the most liberal in matters of Islamic practices of its people.
The gullible also look at upheavals in the middle east and think they are a homegrown movement without any assistance by outside governments. It is an enduring picture, but it is a picture of deception. The CIA is widely thought to have funded the manual with step by step instructions for how to perform your own rebellion ("From Dictatorship to Democracy") and indeed help it find its ways into hands of certain people. The steps presented in this book were followed in the Egypt rebellion almost exactly, and in fact mirrored in most other nations of the region. It is fact that the United States has helped destabilize Governments before. It can also be debated as fact that in almost every case we have made the situation worse.
Then there is Oil and Israel, but I honestly do not have the time this week to get into that quagmire of discussion. But there can be no doubt that both issues are major players in how we view both Arabs and Muslims (through propaganda), and that both have the most powerful lobbies in the United States.
When atrocities and crimes on humanity happen, we as a nation should step in by using those in the military who volunteer for that specific action. Do we step in for all world atrocities? no and very rarely do we actually step in at all, and rarer still in time to prevent them or lessen them, and almost never unless their is a strategic political or military interest in the region. In fact the Author of this story points out two atrocities in comments that prove points I made in my last two paragraphs, and a further claim that we in fact help them (atrocities) to happen in many cases.
I was beyond tired when I posted my first hastily written comment late last night, and was shocked to find it had become an issue. While that comment was not my best argument, (and this morning I am not firing on all of my, normal albeit limited mental cylinders, ie: I am uneducated, I do not have a degree in anything), and my original comment was written with the bad taste of the stories headline in my mouth, my inate distaste for perpetuating the propaganda of hate for Islam and its adherents.
These are big issues, and in them my goal is to plead the case for greater understanding instead of blind unquestioning hate which is a mirror of the face of extremism.
Read books from both sides of every issue. In fact read more of the opposing side than your own view. Find the truths and not the propaganda. Find the true history and not the revisionist history.
Try to understand the concept of: while "we" may not act a certain way as a culture anymore "we" must allow other cultures to maintain their culture independently of the what has become a diluted one world culture.