Is it the Christian thing to do?

by Babel-Fish | June 28, 2009 at 04:59 pm

1042 views | 26 Recommendations | 32 comments

As a religious investigative writer and an atheist with a deep interest in all forms of religions and someone that questions religions but knows faith is important to many people that need a staff to lean on. That people are frightening that death is the complete end of existence. I see an argument between two religious cults in the Philippines where each are slurring the other cult’s leadership.

Looking at the leadership of two evangelic cults one can see the religion is all about making money using religion as the bait. These cults have became rich the market place is the Filipino Catholic society, attracting disenchanted Christians away from the Catholic Church (of which is one of the world biggest and oldest establish religious business).

It’s all about money and controls in fact its all about evil intent shrouded by a cloak of Christian morality and charity bait. The leaders of such cults very often show their real color’s and get caught with their fingers in the cookie jars. Or end up being slurred by sexual deviances some true and some falsely claimed by the cults enemies.

The problem in the Philippines that two of these cults is using their followers to slur each others leaders and establishments. One of the cults has embroiled it self in Filipino politics, the other is also trying to establish it self politically.

What these cults are doing to my mind is not good for Christianity it’s really a power struggle in a vendetta that’s been going on for years. What is worrying is that the followers mostly good honest Christians are funding this squabble and the lifestyles of the crooks running these cults. The cult’s indoctrination that is deviant to normal Christianity has blinded the followers to the reality that they have been conned. The propaganda issued from the pulpit is not what I would call in line with Christian morality. The attacks on each other are also not something the great Philosopher Jesus Christ would have condoned.

It sickens me to see the accusation being aired on internet news communities and blog’s and I keep asking myself are these people really Christians and can’t they see that such vendetta’s are evil. Jesus taught that people should love and respect each other, these guys seem to be blind to the Philosophers teaching and following the devils path. They are not practicing true Christianity.

My advice to christians that follow such cults:

Cut out the middleman and pray direct as the middle man wants your money. Plus read the first two chapters of the New Testament's and get enlightenment and learn to become a real Christian and not a fundamentalist.

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Uwe Paschen

at 17:06 on June 28th, 2009

That would be valid for all aspects of business, Cut out the middle man...

Babel-Fish

at 17:06 on June 28th, 2009

This is not just a problem in the Philippines or concerning just the christian faith

worm wood

at 22:03 on June 28th, 2009

Define Vendetta.

Babel-Fish

at 05:00 on June 29th, 2009

Vendetta is a long-running argument or fight between parties,

Its horrid when you lose your dictionary. lol I however thought everyone knew the meaning of Vendetta? however now you know.

worm wood

at 00:21 on June 30th, 2009

Babel-Fish, that's how you think. Anymore definitions from an Atheist?

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. Psalm 14:1

Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Romans 12:19

Christians fight a good fight of faith. And if you can't see this in your past religious denomination, now you can witness one in Ang Dating Daan. This is what Brother Eli always remind to each and everyone of us:

2 Corinthians 6 The Message

1-10Companions as we are in this work with you, we beg you, please don't squander one bit of this marvelous life God has given us. God reminds us,

I heard your call in the nick of time;
The day you needed me, I was there to help.

Well, now is the right time to listen, the day to be helped. Don't put it off; don't frustrate God's work by showing up late, throwing a question mark over everything we're doing.

Our work as God's servants gets validated—or not—in the details. People are watching us as we stay at our post, alertly, unswervingly . . . in hard times, tough times, bad times; when we're beaten up, jailed, and mobbed; working hard, working late, working without eating; with pure heart, clear head, steady hand; in gentleness, holiness, and honest love; when we're telling the truth, and when God's showing his power; when we're doing our best setting things right; when we're praised,

and when we're blamed; slandered, and honored; true to our word, though distrusted; ignored by the world, but recognized by God; terrifically alive,

though rumored to be dead; beaten within an inch of our lives, but refusing to die; immersed in tears, yet always filled with deep joy; living on handouts, yet enriching many; having nothing, having it all.

11-13Dear, dear Corinthians, I can't tell you how much I long for you to enter this wide-open, spacious life. We didn't fence you in. The smallness you feel comes from within you. Your lives aren't small, but you're living them in a small way. I'm speaking as plainly as I can and with great affection. Open up your lives. Live openly and expansively!

14-18Don't become partners with those who reject God. How can you make a partnership out of right and wrong? That's not partnership; that's war. Is light best friends with dark? Does Christ go strolling with the Devil? Do trust and mistrust hold hands? Who would think of setting up pagan idols in God's holy Temple? But that is exactly what we are, each of us a temple in whom God lives. God himself put it this way:

   "I'll live in them, move into them;
      I'll be their God and they'll be my people.
   So leave the corruption and compromise;
      leave it for good," says God.
   "Don't link up with those who will pollute you.
      I want you all for myself.
   I'll be a Father to you;
      you'll be sons and daughters to me."
   The Word of the Master, God.

citizenearth (not verified)

at 18:12 on June 28th, 2009

All religions fall victim to political and commerical motives. Sad but true.

worm wood

at 22:05 on June 28th, 2009

The question here is, how much is your book Babel-Fish? That's just it!

Babel-Fish

at 04:12 on June 29th, 2009

Nothing it for free some of us do things for nothing, its on the internet as a free e-book down load or you can read it here on nowpublic. As its relevant to indoctrination, possibly the book may open your eyes, I have just updated the book with the last amendments its a living book so its for ever changing as I learn more about life. But as a writer I have wrote hundreds of articles concerning religion over the many years of writing articles on the internet. Writer does not have to mean book author. If you want links to some of my best religious article I will be pleased to Email you the links.

I don't need more money than I have that being a military pension that goes a long way because of the Filipino economy or the Chinese one when I go stay there.

But how much do these cult leaders make? They are making money out of the gullible using religion. Even if I did make money on my articles and books I would not be deemed at making money out of the gullible and not tricking and conning people by being crafty. Everything I do today is non money making I give up making money 10 years ago when I retired early at 54.

That's just it! LOL

So are you offering an excuse for these con men, that they are paid to spread the word and doing such a good job conning the followers that they can live in luxury that only the followers could dream of? lol

Didn't the Great Philosopher Christ give proof that he frown on people making money in the temple?

worm wood

at 14:50 on June 29th, 2009

So you said, military pension. I know fire arms was a good business back then to get a pension, that is blood money. All your needs are diminishing and yet you care for the money, is this all what you care to say, don't you?

This is interesting, con here, con there, it's like from actual experience. So many books you wrote and yet you all you cay say is this over and over again.

Good luck to your passion and where it will lead you. A man who live by the sword, dies by the sword. I hope you live with by word of God. Not use the word of God even if you do not believe in it. God has a promise, maybe you can start to research about it while you can still think.

Babel-Fish

at 17:42 on June 29th, 2009

You sure have picked on the wrong nowpublic member to attempted a character assassination, lol.

Firstly: My military service was spent in a time when the British Army where in a peace keeping role. Then at that time I was highly indoctrinated as most soldiers are, thankfully I was never sent to war for and elitist motive cause. Of course to me then it was a patriotic and the christian thing to do to join the forces and defend the people of my country. Wow, we also had great church services that often confirmed I was on the right track, yes God was on my side. lol

Later in life I realized that I had been highly indoctrinated and came to terms that I needed to question my religion, patriotism and politics and look at life, people and the world in a different way as a free thinker. Yep I became a born again free thinker. The so called blood money in fact was a blessing as it allowed me to retire and seek a cheaper economy so I could write about the way indoctrination messed up my life and the world i live in.

I spend that blood money here in the Philippines it has an extra blessing that is it helps to put rice on peoples tables and helps boost the Filipino economy, more gets spent on other people than myself as I lead a good but meager life. yep a nice rented house, good Filipino food and normal entertainment, but no nightlife and not much partying. I help people send kids to school and help those in the need of medication.

You surely do not know the Bubble-Fish of whom is certainly not an hypocrite.

My view on war as a peace activist is countries do need to protect themselves but not go to war for elitist profit or power motives. I have wrote many articles on this subject however I think that my "Scream 9-11 the global picture" is one of the best ones.

Prior to 9/11

2nd August 1990 Iraq shocked the world by actually invading Kuwait city after threatening Kuwait since January 1990 where as some troops had entered Kuwait territory. This being related to an argument over the $14 billion that Iraq borrowed from Kuwait to finance the Iraq Iran war, Iraq had argued that the war had prevented the rise of Persian influence in the Arab World, thus protecting Kuwait asking that the loan be made none and void. The talks broke down, then Iraq had tried repaying its debts by raising the prices of oil through OPECs oil production cuts. Kuwait then prevented a global increase in petroleum prices by increasing its own petroleum production. This was seen by Saddam Hussien as an act of aggression. Other problems arose in reference to oilfield drilling o

Now days I certainly do not live by the sword, my tool is the pen (key board). I certainly never character assinate any of my oponents in any community debates, its regarded as the lowest un-decent thing to do, to attack the messenger and not the message. Its certainly not a Christian thing to do, but I note many Christians do just that. It sucks and shows a lack of understanding in the morality Jesus Christ was trying to teach. Anybody doing so shows that Jesus is not within their heart.

I am not conning anyone and if you think I am your in fact conning your self. I have an history of writing about life and If you really want to place me in a pigeon hole you really need to read most of my articles of which shows a picture of a character that is so very hard to destroy. I am no saint but I truthfully try to be, one thing I am not and thats a hypocrite and when I am wrong I admit it.

So lets get back to the article and the main question is it the Christian thing to do in attacking members of another christian cult?

Seemingly you think its right to attack my character of which I truthfully see is not a very good christian path. The article is the debate and not me or my life or my character.

Now have the common decency to keep on line with the subject matter of the article. If you can't your be deemed as being unable to debate sensible on this issue and you have no true argument. Yes other are judging you as well as me and its your character that's in question? though that question will remain a silent one amongst the decent folk's on this news community.

worm wood

at 23:23 on June 29th, 2009

What is character assassination for you as an atheist, Babel-fish? And you are talking about your religion? Not the biblical religion, right?

Babel-Fish

at 05:59 on June 30th, 2009

We don't insult people here personally is deemed as showing low intelligence and rude. Its viewed as being common decent to respect when you disagree. Note at no time within our argument I have slurred your character. I am an atheist that respect religious opinion but i do notr respect character assassination. Nor do I respect red herrings that give ever indication that the commenter can not issue an argument.

I have no religion.

worm wood

at 04:53 on July 1st, 2009

Babel-Fish, define religion, atheist!

You punish your past counterfeit religion, your odious object by going out of your way and use another fake religion, INC, to blame us? You even use our Ang Dating Daan videos. What kind of vendetta is that?

You are the author, the article clearly points at you, then the character assassination award you give to me? No, I don't mind, it's yours to keep.

Anyone who sets himself up as "religious" by talking a good game is self-deceived. This kind of religion is hot air and only hot air. James 1:26 (The Message)

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 1 Corinthians 14:22

Clear it man, you have no religion or you got out from a fake religion?

Which is which? And now, be sincere, tell us if you are looking for the biblical religion.

If you do not have religion. Then, let me tell you where I belong, where my group cleaved. Remember, James is talking to his brothers in faith,

Real religion, the kind that passes muster before God the Father, is this: Reach out to the homeless and loveless in their plight, and guard against corruption from the godless world. James 1:27

You do not have religion? Really? Really, now? As in, really, really?

I spend that blood money here in the Philippines it has an extra blessing that is it helps to put rice on peoples tables and helps boost the Filipino economy, more gets spent on other people than myself as I lead a good but meager life. yep a nice rented house, good Filipino food and normal entertainment, but no nightlife and not much partying. I help people send kids to school and help those in the need of medication. - Bubble-Fish

These are what I love to hear! Although you got out from your former religion, you are telling me of some good deeds, right? But, James did not write just that verse, it's a book.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that you are a listener when you are anything but, letting the Word go in one ear and out the other. Act on what you hear! Those who hear and don't act are like those who glance in the mirror, walk away, and two minutes later have no idea who they are, what they look like. James 1:22-24 (The Message)

Though you don't consider yourself religious, you are doing its essence, compassion. But wait here's more.

I can already hear one of you agreeing by saying, "Sounds good. You take care of the faith department, I'll handle the works department."

Not so fast. You can no more show me your works apart from your faith than I can show you my faith apart from my works. Faith and works, works and faith, fit together hand in glove. James 2:18 (The Message)

You might not find the normal Christianity that you are looking for based on your personal precepts. But we will help you, God willing, to show you Jesus' Faith and Works that abide in us, biblical Christians. We cleaved to the Church of God.

Giovanni 15:7 (La Parola è Vita)

7 Ma se restate uniti a me e continuate ad ubbidire ai miei insegnamenti, potete chiedere cio che volete, e vi sarà dato.

John 15 (The Message)

5-8"I am the Vine, you are the branches. When you're joined with me and I with you, the relation intimate and organic, the harvest is sure to be abundant. Separated, you can't produce a thing. Anyone who separates from me is deadwood, gathered up and thrown on the bonfire. But if you make yourselves at home with me and my words are at home in you, you can be sure that whatever you ask will be listened to and acted upon. This is how my Father shows who he is—when you produce grapes, when you mature as my disciples.

And as James' brethren, we abide to Jesus Christ, we abide to His words.

My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. James 1 (KJV)

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:33

Babel-Fish

at 05:18 on July 11th, 2009

Wormwood Atheism is not a belief or a religion its non belief.

I have ask you if this vendetta is a christian way of doing things, and all the bible quotes in the world to support such a vendetta, can not erode the teachings of Christ that plainly stated.

Turn the other cheek and love your neighbor.

Why are you trying to create red herrings to hide the fact that Jesus Christ would hate this vendetta between the two cults arguing at present in the Philippines. Its certainly not an intellectual thing to do and its sad that and intelligent being can invade the question asked in the article.

What ever I have done does not matter what matters is the truth and that is the two christian groups are not following the teaching of Christ in this issue. I there for turn the other cheek and await a sensible hate free answer to the question posed in the article. Yep, I do remember the Christian path and as a Christian I was indeed follow the correct path those words of Jesus at that time meant everything to me and I read them and understood them to the full. Even as the atheist I am to day I completely agree with the peaceful Philosophy of Christ the greatest moral Philosopher the world has ever known.

I simply have no religion and free of such dogmar a free thinker that has no idology. My many articles on atheistism and religion show that is very apparent.

worm wood

at 23:00 on August 19th, 2009

May I just re-post some of my comments for Babel-Fish?

Babel-Fish deleted his definition of the term "cult" in one of his comments, out of fear of being labeled as having disdain and prejudice? But he keeps on labeling religious groups here in the Philippines as a cult by pasting his previous comments over and over again. What a way to advertise Atheism in his own way!

If the term does not enable us to distinguish between a pathological group and a legitimate one, then it has no real value. It is the religious equivalent of the racial term for African Americans—it conveys disdain and prejudice without having any valuable content.[35]..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#Differing_opinions_of_the_various_definitions

Is free thinking absolute for a person who has no sense of accountability for human welfare and morality? Why don't you start from your grassroots? Why don't you tell us about your previous Christian group, their doctrines that you feel unsound? Don't generalise! As a writer, be responsible! Take into consideration the fact that what you feel bad and wrong about the doctrines of your ex-Christian denomination doesn't necessarily follows that other Christian denomination has the same doctrines, especially, the Church of God International. Try to listen and weigh things before you badmouth any of them.

What is vendetta? What is an un-Christian way? All these are contained and manifested in all your comments Babel-Fish! All these comments of yours are manifestation of your own vendettas to you previous so called Christian affiliation. Aren't you an ex-Christian, as you said? If you didn't find the Christian way in your old group, it's time for you to move on and seek for the kingdom of God in other religious group. Not all Christian groups that say that they are Christians are Christians. Just like what you thought of your old group. I can only think of two reasons why you left your previous group, it is either you do not believe in their doctrines or you are your own preacher.

Isn't it unbecoming of an atheist to preach certain verses of the Holy Bible that he does not even believed that the God who commanded to wrote them exists? No. Atheists usually shield themselves with invisible words made by the One whom they do not believe. And that is Babel-Fish and his cohorts. Mind you, this atheist is tossed by any winds.

26-27"But if you just use my words in Bible studies and don't work them into your life, you are like a stupid carpenter who built his house on the sandy beach. When a storm rolled in and the waves came up, it collapsed like a house of cards." Matthew 7 (The Message)

Did John the Beloved write about Judas Iscariot out of vendetta? Answer it, Babel-Fish!

What is turning the other cheek? How can someone like you who is full of hate about Christian ways turn his other cheek, especially when that cheek is full of misleading insinuations about the Holy Scriptures? Because if Babel-Fish has known the true Jesus Christ, he will be careful stoning the ones he calls a cult. He will also know that Jesus Christ also taught that one should cleave to good. God is the only good.

Jesus said, "Why are you calling me good? No one is good—only God. Luke 18:19 (The Message)

Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. Romans 12:9 (King James Version)

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Matthew 19:17 (King James Version)

And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. John 12:50 (King James Version)

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21 (King James Version)

Babel-Fish, you said

"...Even as the atheist I am to day I completely agree with the peaceful Philosophy of Christ the greatest moral Philosopher the world has ever known..."

How ironic and full of deceit becoming of Babel-Fish! He completely agrees with the peaceful Philosophy of Christ, but then again, he doesn't believe on the One who sent Jesus Christ. By this, Babel-Fish is misleading people that his hypocritically way of showing charity is Jesus Christ's philosophy. And how can someone so bitter and proud in his heart rejecting the idea that there is a God can reap the benefits of charity; moreover teaches it? God is love. Unless of course the benefit this Babel-Fish looks forward to is an appeal to the material aspects of his own delusion, he is satisfied to the benefits he can reap from a comfort zone of his own hypocrisy. It's just for a meantime, that kind of satisfaction is but for a short time. He thought the end justify the means. But the means and outcome will still remain and can never escape from the Hands of God come judgment day.

"But my purpose is not to get your vote, and not to appeal to mere human testimony. I'm speaking to you this way so that you will be saved. John was a torch, blazing and bright, and you were glad enough to dance for an hour or so in his bright light. But the witness that really confirms me far exceeds John's witness. It's the work the Father gave me to complete. These very tasks, as I go about completing them, confirm that the Father, in fact, sent me. The Father who sent me, confirmed me. And you missed it. You never heard his voice, you never saw his appearance. There is nothing left in your memory of his Message because you do not take his Messenger seriously. John 5:34-38 (The Message)

But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. John 5:36 (King James Version)

Just like Judas who is a thief and how he reasons out shows what truly is contained in his heart, Babel-Fish is a hypocrite.

John 12 (The Message)

1-3Six days before Passover, Jesus entered Bethany where Lazarus, so recently raised from the dead, was living. Lazarus and his sisters invited Jesus to dinner at their home. Martha served. Lazarus was one of those sitting at the table with them. Mary came in with a jar of very expensive aromatic oils, anointed and massaged Jesus' feet, and then wiped them with her hair. The fragrance of the oils filled the house.

4-6Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples, even then getting ready to betray him, said, "Why wasn't this oil sold and the money given to the poor? It would have easily brought three hundred silver pieces." He said this not because he cared two cents about the poor but because he was a thief. He was in charge of their common funds, but also embezzled them.

7-8Jesus said, "Let her alone. She's anticipating and honoring the day of my burial. You always have the poor with you. You don't always have me."

That is how I read Babel-Fish, a self-confessed atheist, who always ever-ready to say and point out what is an un-Christian way when in fact he doesn't even know what being a Christian truly is. He mentions love thine enemies, but he doesn't care about what loving truly is, the difference between charity and love, the agape kind of love that is shared among the brotherhood in Christ, among the Church of God. Babel-Fish just wanted to cleave to his own preconceived goodness.

Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. Romans 12:9 (King James Version)

Jesus said, "Why are you calling me good? No one is good—only God. Luke 18:19 (The Message)

He sails his ship in his own accident-made wind. Does Babel-Fish really cares for the poor? I think so, but being poor is not mainly on bread, but we also need to satisfy the hunger in the words of God. Does he really completely agrees with Jesus Christ? Jesus Christ has a lot of words coming from the Father. Does Babel-Fish knows these words completely?

That is how we also see GMA 7 who brands itself as a house of truth, but what it truly does is cradle a self-confessed rapist, Daniel "Puto" Veridiano, a Judas, a liar saying that he was raped. This case was dismissed by the Regional Trial Court of Pampanga.

"...but was later refiled in higher court by the country's Department of Justice Secretary, Raul Gonzales, who is not in anyway involved with the case...." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliseo_Soriano

Did Wikipedia later on delete the the last phrase in bold and italics? I am asking this because Babel-fish has copy pasted the above in his article, Religious Cults in the Philippines http://my.nowpublic.com/culture/religious-cults-philippines

If this case is still in courts, GMA 7 and Arnold Clavio did not understand the legal term Sub Judice that they insist an interview with Brother Eli Soriano so if they get one will put him under contempt of court. In law, sub judice, Latin for "under judgment," means that a particular case or matter is currently under trial or being considered by a judge or court. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub_judice

The basis for the sub judice rule is that, in Ontario's legal system, it is the role of the courts to deal with legal issues that are before it. The courts' role should not be usurped by others making public statements about how these issues should be dealt with. http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/legis/subjudicerule.asp

Does loving your enemy includes preventing yourself from exposing a liar, a Judas in spreading more lies and corrupting the minds of those listening to him? Thus, we expose Iglesia ni Cristo adulterated doctrines! We expose GMA 7 for allowing Case Unclosed with Arnold Clavio when he interviewed Daniel "Puto" Veridiano with their intention to really malign Brother Eli Soriano in front of public viewers.

John the Beloved wrote of Judas and I would never think that this is out of vendetta, not even out of hate for enemies. This is in fact exposing what an un-Christian thing to do, exposing the committed sin that any Christian or non Christian can learn from. That is not playing dumb.

John 12:4-6 (La Biblia de las Américas)

    4Y Judas Iscariote, uno de sus discípulos, el que le iba a entregar, dijo*:

    5¿Por qué no se vendió este perfume por trescientos denarios y se dio a los pobres?

    6Pero dijo esto, no porque se preocupara por los pobres, sino porque era un ladrón, y como tenía la bolsa del dinero, sustraía de lo que se echaba en ella.

If Babel-Fish can't contain the wind in his stomach and can't prevent it from coming out as his piece, what more of a Christian whose faith is being trampled by pigs? Can a Christian play mute and dumb on this spiritual fight of faith? If your definition of giving the other cheek is playing dumb, then, your definition of what a Christian way is very far fetched.

Babel-Fish, your understanding of Christianity based on your studies proves nil and vain, and magnified by your pointless accusations and your name calling. For one, saying that we are a cult is name-calling isn't it? I asked you to define the term "cult." But what did you do? The fact that you deleted your definition of the term "cult" that you got from wikipedia proves that you are definitely in the wrong. The fact that you haven't found the True Christianity doesn't give you the right to call us a cult, or does your personal pursuit of your vendetta makes you think that you have the right?

"According to professor Timothy Miller from the University of Kansas in his 2003 Religious Movements in the United States, during the controversies over the new religious groups in the 1960s, the term "cult" came to mean something sinister, generally used to describe a movement at least potentially destructive to its members or to society. But he argues that no one yet has been able to define a "cult" in a way that enables the term to identify only problematic groups. Miller asserts that the attributes of groups often referred to as cults (see cult checklist), as defined by cult opponents, can be found in groups that few would consider cultist, such as Catholic religious orders or many evangelical Protestant churches. Miller argues:

If the term does not enable us to distinguish between a pathological group and a legitimate one, then it has no real value. It is the religious equivalent of the racial term for African Americans—it conveys disdain and prejudice without having any valuable content [35]..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#Differing_opinions_of_the_various_definitions

Matthew 7 (The Message)

15-20"Be wary of false preachers who smile a lot, dripping with practiced sincerity. Chances are they are out to rip you off some way or other. Don't be impressed with charisma; look for character. Who preachers are is the main thing, not what they say. A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. These diseased trees with their bad apples are going to be chopped down and burned.

21-23"Knowing the correct password—saying 'Master, Master,' for instance— isn't going to get you anywhere with me. What is required is serious obedience—doing what my Father wills. I can see it now—at the Final Judgment thousands strutting up to me and saying, 'Master, we preached the Message, we bashed the demons, our God-sponsored projects had everyone talking.' And do you know what I am going to say? 'You missed the boat. All you did was use me to make yourselves important. You don't impress me one bit. You're out of here.'

24-25"These words I speak to you are not incidental additions to your life, homeowner improvements to your standard of living. They are foundational words, words to build a life on. If you work these words into your life, you are like a smart carpenter who built his house on solid rock. Rain poured down, the river flooded, a tornado hit—but nothing moved that house. It was fixed to the rock.

26-27"But if you just use my words in Bible studies and don't work them into your life, you are like a stupid carpenter who built his house on the sandy beach. When a storm rolled in and the waves came up, it collapsed like a house of cards."

28-29When Jesus concluded his address, the crowd burst into applause. They had never heard teaching like this. It was apparent that he was living everything he was saying—quite a contrast to their religion teachers! This was the best teaching they had ever heard.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. John 12:49 (King James Version)

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:10 (King James Version)

truthcaster

at 08:45 on June 29th, 2009

Here's the translation of the youtube video Ang Dating Daan - 69 million ng Saligan nasaan na (Ang Dating Daan - PHP 69 Million worth of Saligan properties missing)

Main Speaker speaking:
"The church founded by Eliseo Soriano: Mga Kaanib sa Iglesia ng Dios, Haligi at Saligan ng katotohanan sa bansang pilipinas(Saligan ), had properties worth 69.65 million pesos. My question: how is Soriano a "wise" man? This is how!"
"The church was dissolved. The title of the properties of the church were transfered to his name(thus becoming his personal properties)"
"He did not give importance to what was written within the church's by-laws. What is stated in the church's by-laws? Article 4, pertaining to church properties:'That all properties of this organization should be registered in the name of Mga Kaanib...'."
"Here's another one: Section 2, none of the properties of this organization can be sold or mortgaged without the written consent of two-thirds of the local and national congregations, and with the written consent of the general secretary, the general treasurer and the presiding minister."
"Therefore, in short, the properties of the church must be registered under the name of the church. These properties cannot be sold or mortgaged unless two-thirds of the members agrees to it."
"What Soriano did, because he lost the lawsuit thus losing the church name, he had the three churches namely, 'Mga kaanib...','Bayan ng Katotohanan' and 'Iglesia ni YHMSA', dissolved."
"Question: Where did the church properties, worth 69.65 million pesos, go? Here! The values ballooned! The properties are now worth 334 million plus. Proof that Eliseo Soriano mortgaged the properties, in direct violation of the church by-laws! Here's the proof, (reading document) 'These properties are subject as collateral on loan that may be granted by any government or private financing institution or bank.'"
"Eliseo Soriano mortgaged the properties. and here you will see the three parcels of lots with totals 102+ square meters."
"Soriano mortgaged these properties in violation of church by-laws"

Babel-Fish

at 17:55 on June 29th, 2009

Now there we go, that's not the Christian thing to do and highlight this damn vendetta. Please give a sensible answer to the question related in the article.

Do you really think this vendetta of yours is worth it and that its a christian thing to do?

Please keep on subject and stop fueling the stupid vendetta and behaving in the most un-christian way. Are you a Christian and have you read what Christ stated in the bible about such matters. If you spent as much time on the path laid out by Christ you end up as a saint. lol

But is this methodology of destroy the enemy the christian norm within both of these Christian cults if so its not a very good advertisement for Christianity or your own form of that faith.

truthcaster

at 20:37 on June 29th, 2009

I guess you missed the connection to your article. This is part of it: "all about making money using religion as the bait". It's pays to remember and know what you wrote so when contributors provide additional material, you don't just jump into wrong conclusions and vilify them.

Words such as "stupid" should also be avoided.

Sure I would take advice about Christianity from an avowed atheist. Yeah right!

Didn't you say you're an investigative journalist? What I wrote is "meat" to real, true blue investigative journalist! What does that make you?

Babel-Fish

at 05:31 on June 30th, 2009

What does that make you?

A person that does tell the truth and wants to know the truth, a real citizen jounalist

kotawinters

at 23:35 on June 29th, 2009

Liar truthcaster,

Mortgaged or not, those properties are nobody's but Soriano's. He personally owns them out of honest work.

If he does not feed thousands of people working for the Church out of his own pocket, he would have been rich by now.

Whatever he does with his properties, it is not for his own PERSONAL benefit like you are trying to mislead the public with your lies. Have you personally seen how he works? Are you knowledgeable about his values? What about his vision for the people of God?

If you were told, these properties were MORTGAGED to pay for evangelical pursuits in the fast-paced work now that he is doing for the Church, I would not be surprised you wouldn't believe because you don't share the same values.

It is only you who is trying to muddle issues by insisting on the public to think bad of the evangelist. Truth to tell, your overkill already boomerangs much about you and your evil motives.

Babel-Fish

at 05:20 on July 11th, 2009

There we go again a person that is not reacting as a true christian and not following the teaching of Jesus Christ.Character assignation and you are not commenting on the article and attacking a member of another religious cult. Proof that my article needed to be written and how you christian are not really following a path to create peace.

Be have show common decency and give argument to the article and not a red herring non chritian, tut tut so much for christainity.

truthcaster

at 06:38 on June 30th, 2009

Hi Jane,

You missed the point again. How have you survived writing all these time when you can't even see the point of a simple piece. O wait, I forgot you've been brainwashed.

The point is, those properties did not belong to Soriano! Those properties belong to the church! Until of course Soriano using his guile managed to trasfer those properties to his name. That was the point.

I hope this clear things up for you, Jane Abao, alias kotawinters, Emily Jordan, etc

kotawinters

at 22:18 on June 30th, 2009

Hi, conrad j. obligacion alias cidric amalon, the real liecaster!

So you know more than we do?

It's the other way around. Those are properties of Soriano but as witnessed by some people, they have been transfered in the name of the Church through his Will, with the request that Soriano's grandhildren may not be neglected whenever he goes.

That proves that Soriano is really not ordinary - a simple man with a big, big heart - unlike your businessmen church leaders. He started working while young, and had learned to be very responsible. He is used to feeding thousands of people out of his own pocket - materially as well as spiritually.

A unique individual that he is, in your world, you cannot imagine that such an individual exists. As you can see, no matter how you try to destroy him, he continues with his work of salvation.And he is hurrying, hurrying, hurrying - knowing the time is near.

What about you? Are you concerned with your own salvation? Why are you so busy lying?

Emily? haha! You copied the blog like a chameleon does, right? Including the template and color. You just added the letter N to make it Emily Jordann - to fool people.

Fine tactic for a liar like you! Just like your name, truthcaster. Your favorite enemy, Soriano, is the real Truthcaster and while you stole his name, you do everything to destroy him.

truthcaster

at 05:30 on July 1st, 2009

Hi Jane,

If those properties really do belong to Soriano, then he's a liar. It's not a secret that he fashions and calls himself as the "dukhang pantas na lalaki(poor wise man)". Certainly someone worth 69 million pesos is not poor.

Anyway, you missed the point again Miss Jane. Soriano stole those properties from the church by transferring the titles to his name and not to the church, whatever the current name of it. I'll be interested to know how he manage to do that without the knowledge and consent of church members.

kotawinters

at 02:56 on July 5th, 2009

Liecaster,

What are you really arguing about? The properties? Those are really his and by his Last Will, to be turned over to the Church.

Are you arguing about his wisdom? He is truly a wise man. No one today has his kind of understanding of the Bible. "Ask Soriano, the Bible answers" ever had no double. That is why no one dares to debate with him now. The nemesis of all false preachers, he is wanted dead - including the Iglesia ni Cristo who makes no secret about their wish.

Haha! You really entertain the Interpol with all your attempts to squeeze him in.

truthcaster

at 09:34 on July 6th, 2009

@kotawinters,

Hi Jane,

Really his? Yes, I agree. But since when? Only after he dissolved the church and transfered the ownership of church properties to his name. Open your eyes Jane.

His wisdom!? very funny. Ask him why some of the population of Cainta, Rizal are darker than others. I'm sure he's changed his answer. He used to say it was because the sun beats hotter in Cainta! hilarious.

He's the nemesis of his own self. I can give you a list of his contradictions if you want me to. Just ask.

Barbara McPherson

at 09:21 on June 29th, 2009

John Lennon's words come to mind here. Thanks for the thoughtful article.

Babel-Fish

at 18:13 on June 29th, 2009

John Lennon's is of course one of my hero's a person that was enlightened to the worlds true problems and could only offer an acorn, but the acorn meant so much more than just an olive branch. A seed of peace and tranquility.

These people in the religious vendetta are their own worst enemies concerning the picture of peace the christian faiths state us mortals should seek. When religions are at peace with each other will be the day for the world to celebrate, but that is of course an impossibility. More chances of a camel passing through the eye of a needle.

worm wood

at 13:18 on July 17th, 2009

So the atheist Babel-Fish borrowed his definition to wikipedia, and won't give a definite answer coming from his own group. Wikipedia last modified that page on 11 July 2009 at 05:27. So, maybe he hasn't read this one, yet.

According to professor Timothy Miller from the University of Kansas in his 2003 Religious Movements in the United States, during the controversies over the new religious groups in the 1960s, the term "cult" came to mean something sinister, generally used to describe a movement at least potentially destructive to its members or to society. But he argues that no one yet has been able to define a "cult" in a way that enables the term to identify only problematic groups. Miller asserts that the attributes of groups often referred to as cults (see cult checklist), as defined by cult opponents, can be found in groups that few would consider cultist, such as Catholic religious orders or many evangelical Protestant churches. Miller argues:

If the term does not enable us to distinguish between a pathological group and a legitimate one, then it has no real value. It is the religious equivalent of the racial term for African Americans—it conveys disdain and prejudice without having any valuable content.[35] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

Babel-Fish what are you trying to prove to the readers here?

Babel-Fish at 18:42 on June 29th, 2009 You surely do not know the Bubble-Fish of whom is certainly not an hypocrite.

Babel-Fish at 02:51 on July 5th, 2009 Now I really hope that bubble-fish was a spelling mistake, lol

worm wood

at 08:57 on July 24th, 2009

Babel-Fish, as far as I can remember, you defined the word cult using wikipedia's first paragraph, can you please point out to me where you wrote that? My above comment was supposed to be my reply.