Jesus= God???

by info.star | August 9, 2009 at 06:37 pm

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What is this confusion in religion?

I would like very much to enfasise that my wish is not to offend anyone but this idea of Jesus and God being one really confuses me.

I would like to have some serious discussion on the subject.

I understand in Christianity it is believed that Jesus is God in the flesh but I do not understand where this idea comes from. From my knowledge this is mentioned nowhere in the existing bible that we have today.

I am curious as to how modern day Christians can use this English bible as their source of authority when Christian scholars themselves have stated that they do not even have a copy of a copy of a copy(ect) of the original to be able to translate it acuratly.

I also have a couple of questions,

In cirtain verse in the bible it is stated that Jesus fell prostrate and prayed, who was he praying to?

At this point I would like to use a verse from the bible where Jesus said to a man Whyfor dost thou call me good? none is good but OUR father in HEAVEN.

NOTE. the use of the words OUR and HEAVEN which would imply that their was a being seperate from Jesus and that he was UP in heaven.

ALSO,

If Jesus is God who sent the angel Gabriel to Mary to tell her she was with child when pregnant with Jesus?

If Jesus is God (and God cant die as we know) then who died on the cross?

Another school of thought that is strange is that Jesus is the son of God.

Can someone explain how God could have a son, what is the basis of Christian belief in this idea?

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info.star

at 19:20 on August 9th, 2009

Indeed I do not have access to these. I would appreaciate if you could give me details of how to obtain them

I was raised as a christian but was always confused by so many areas of the bible.

I have been studing Islam for about 2 years now and have recently become a Muslim.

Grace H

at 13:04 on August 31st, 2009

I would reccomend starting with some sort of brief intro pamphlet to Christianity. Then read the Gospel-- or the first four books of the new testament titled Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. These are accounts of Jesus's life from different perspectives. This will serve possibly to aid you in your quest to understand. If you want a close version of the original texts I would reccomend the King James Version. It is in old english though so that may hinder understanding. Personally, I would reccomend "The Message". It is a very modern translation of the Bible and I have found it more fufilling.

asush (not verified)

at 04:20 on September 5th, 2009

Use Google to get to Christian Apolgetis and Research Minisry. They will explain the Trinity better to you. Any god worshipped apart from Yahweh (Jehovah of Israel ) are mere demons masquerading as gods even if you worship them monotheistically and the belief looks very clear to u. Newtons law of gravity was simplex than Albert Einstein"s Relativity theory but which would you judge as been much of unversal importance. Dont be decieved by the diluted and scientified Islam that is been currently used to decieve Westerners. Allah was apagan chief demon who was among the 360 idols in the Kaaba. He had 3 daughters al Lat, al Uzza and al Mannat.Mud due to Christian and Jewish interactions in his neighbourhood got twisted stories of Judaism and Christiaity. He wasn"t evn sure of the revelation he recieved in a DARK cave. It was Khadija nd others who encouraged him and stopped him 4rm commiting suicde. The spirit in the cave stangled him almost to death. Check the Bible and u"ll see no angel of Yaheh ever did such. Pls contact me for further clarifcation or visit www.islam-watch.org or www.answering-islam.com or www.bibleprobe.com

Jesus fan (not verified)

at 11:31 on October 2nd, 2009

Francis

Comment ID #20257

September 1, 2009 • 11:13 pm Truth IS, as Paul testified, “G-D was in The Messiah”, Paul did not testify that ‘g-d was the messiah’……. The Messiah testified of, “The Only True G-D”……. And Paul testified of “ONE G-D, Father of ALL”……. The Messiah testified of, “The Only True G-D” and The Messiah testified that He had a “G-D and Father”……. Paul testified of “ONE G-D, Father of ALL”……. Paul testified, “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in G-D, WHO CREATED ALL things by The Messiah”…….(Eph3:9) There is Only ONE True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, and HE IS The G-D and Father(Creator) of The Messiah and His brethren……. John 17:3 “And this is Eternal Life, that they might know YOU The Only True G-D, and The Messiah, Whom YOU have sent”……. Mark 12:32-33 “And the scribe said unto The Messiah, Well, Master, You have said The Truth: for there is ONE G-D; and there is NONE OTHER but HE. And to love HIM with all your heart, and with all your understanding, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and to love his neighbor as yourself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices”……. Rom 3:30 “Seeing it is ONE G-D, WHO shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith”……. 1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but ONE G-D, The Father, of WHOM are all things, and we in HIM; and one Master, The Messiah, by Whom are all things, and we by Him”……. Eph 4:6 “ONE G-D, Father of ALL, WHO is above all, and through all, and in you all”……. John 4:24 “G-D is A SPIRIT: and they that worship HIM must worship HIM in Spirit and in Truth”……. Luke 24:39 The Messiah testified, “Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself, handle Me and see, for A SPIRIT DOES NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONES, AS you see I HAVE”……. The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL can not die…….period……. The Messiah died and “The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL raised Him from among the dead”……. James 1:13 “Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of G-D, for G-D CAN NOT BE TEMPTED with evil, neither tempts HE any man”……. Heb 4:15 “For we do not have a high priest(The Messiah) Who cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, for He WAS in all points TEMPTED like we are, yet without sin”……. The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, HE CAN NOT BE TEMPTED with sin AS THE MESSIAH WAS…….period……. 1 Tim 2:5 “There is ONE G-D, and one mediator between G-D and men, the man The Messiah”……. James 2:19 “You believe that there is ONE G-D, you do well, yet the devils also believe, and tremble”……. John 20:17 “The Messiah said unto her, Touch Me not; for I have not yet ascended to My Father: but go to My brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto My Father, and your Father; and to My G-D, and your G-D.” Mark 3:33-35 “The Messiah answered them, saying, “Who is My mother, or My brethren”? And He looked round about on them which sat about Him, and said, “Behold my mother and my brethren! For whoever shall do The Will of G-D, the same is My brother, and My sister, and mother”"……. Rom 8:29 “Whom G-D did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of HIS Son, that The Messiah might be the firstborn among many brethren”……. Hope is you are one of the brethren of The Messiah……. The brethren of The Messiah know there is Only ONE True Living G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL……. And The ONE and Only True Living G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, “HE Created all things by The Messiah”……. And “The Messiah is The Son of The ONE and Only True Living G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL”……. The Messiah testified that He had a “G-D and Father” and that His “G-D and Father” was also the “G-D and Father” of His Brethren……. And The ONE and Only True Living G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, HE has no god, for HE IS G-D, and HE has no father, for HE IS Father(Creator) of ALL, and HE has no brethren, for HE IS Father(Creator) of ALL……. Hope is there would be those who experience The Miracle that is receiving “the love of The Truth” for they will “experience The Messiah and The Power(Our Father) that raised Him from among the dead”……. The Faith of those who receive “the love of The Truth” will be grounded in Miracles, not mere colored marks(words) written on a dead tree(page) and bound in a book……. Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(no-peace) that is of this world and it’s systems of religion, for “the WHOLE(not just a portion) world is under the control of the evil one” indeed and Truth……. Truth is never ending……. francis————Truth IS, as Paul testified, “G-D was in The Messiah”, not ‘god was themessiah’……. And as The Messiah testified, “Don’t you believe that I am in The Father,and The Father in Me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not ofMyself: but The Father that dwells in Me, HE DOES THE WORKS”.(JN14:10) The Messiah testified of, “The Only True G-D”……. Paul testified of “ONE G-D, Father of ALL”……. Paul testified, “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of themystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in G-D,WHO CREATED ALL things by The Messiah”…….(Eph3:9) There is Only ONE True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, and HE IS TheG-D and Father(Creator) of The Messiah and His brethren……. John 17:3 “And this is Eternal Life, that they might know YOU The OnlyTrue G-D, and The Messiah, Whom YOU have sent”……. Mark 12:32-33 “And the scribe said unto The Messiah, Well, Master, Youhave said The Truth: for there is ONE G-D; and there is NONE OTHER butHE. And to love HIM with all your heart, and with all your understanding,and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and to love his neighboras yourself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices”……. Rom 3:30 “Seeing it is ONE G-D, WHO shall justify the circumcision byfaith, and uncircumcision through faith”……. 1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but ONE G-D, The Father, of WHOM are allthings, and we in HIM; and one Master, The Messiah, by Whom are allthings, and we by Him”……. Eph 4:6 “ONE G-D, Father of ALL, WHO is above all, and through all, andin you all”……. John 4:24 “G-D is A Spirit”……. John 4:24 G-D is A Spirit: and they that worship HIM must worship HIM inSpirit and in Truth”……. Luke 24:39 The Messiah testified, “Behold Myhands and My feet, that it is I Myself, handle Me and see, for A Spiritdoes not have flesh and bones, as you see I have”……. Simply, The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL can notdie, G-D can not die…….period……. The Messiah died and “The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) ofALL raised Him from among the dead”……. James 1:13 “Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of G-D,for G-D cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts HE any man”……. Heb 4:15 “For we do not have a high priest(The Messiah) Who cannot betouched with the feeling of our infirmities, for He was in all points temptedlike we are, yet without sin”……. The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, HE can not betempted with sin as The Messiah was…….period……. 1 Tim 2:5 “There is ONE G-D, and one mediator between G-D and men,the man The Messiah”……. James 2:19 “You believe that there is ONE G-D, you do well, yet thedevils also believe, and tremble”……. John 20:17 “The Messiah said unto her, Touch Me not; for I have not yetascended to My Father: but go to My brethren, and say unto them, Iascend unto My Father, and your Father; and to My G-D, and your G-D.” Mark 3:33-35 “The Messiah answered them, saying, “Who is My mother, orMy brethren? And He looked round about on them which sat about Him,and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whoever shall do TheWill of G-D, the same is My brother, and My sister, and mother”……. The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, HE has no brother,or sister, or mother……. Rom 8:29 “Whom G-D did foreknow, he also did predestinate to beconformed to the image of HIS Son, that The Messiah might be thefirstborn among many brethren”……. The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, HE has no brethren……. Clearly, and simply, “The Messiah is The Son of The Living ONE and OnlyTrue G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL”…….————————————–No they rather misuse and abuse them ;-( And sadly, the misuse and abuse they heap upon the testimony ofThe Messiah and the apostles is even worse ;-( The Messiah testified of, “The Only True G-D”……. Paul testified of “ONE G-D, Father of ALL”……. Paul testified, “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of themystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in G-D,WHO CREATED ALL things by The Messiah”…….(Eph3:9) There is Only ONE True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, and HE IS TheG-D and Father(Creator) of The Messiah and His brethren……. John 17:3 “And this is Eternal Life, that they might know YOU The OnlyTrue G-D, and The Messiah, Whom YOU have sent”……. Mark 12:32-33 “And the scribe said unto The Messiah, Well, Master, Youhave said The Truth: for there is ONE G-D; and there is NONE OTHER butHE. And to love HIM with all your heart, and with all your understanding,and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and to love his neighboras yourself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices”……. Rom 3:30 “Seeing it is ONE G-D, WHO shall justify the circumcision byfaith, and uncircumcision through faith”……. 1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but ONE G-D, The Father, of WHOM are allthings, and we in HIM; and one Master, The Messiah, by Whom are allthings, and we by Him”……. Eph 4:6 “ONE G-D, Father of ALL, WHO is above all, and through all, andin you all”……. John 4:24 “G-D is A Spirit”……. John 4:24 G-D is A Spirit: and they that worship HIM must worship HIM inSpirit and in Truth”……. Luke 24:39 The Messiah testified, “Behold Myhands and My feet, that it is I Myself, handle Me and see, for A Spiritdoes not have flesh and bones, as you see I have”……. Simply, The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL can notdie, G-D can not die…….period……. The Messiah died and “The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) ofALL raised Him from among the dead”……. James 1:13 “Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of G-D,for G-D cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts HE any man”……. Heb 4:15 “For we do not have a high priest(The Messiah) Who cannot betouched with the feeling of our infirmities, for He was in all points temptedlike we are, yet without sin”……. The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, HE can not betempted with sin as The Messiah was…….period……. 1 Tim 2:5 “There is ONE G-D, and one mediator between G-D and men,the man The Messiah”……. James 2:19 “You believe that there is ONE G-D, you do well, yet thedevils also believe, and tremble”……. John 20:17 “The Messiah said unto her, Touch Me not; for I have not yetascended to My Father: but go to My brethren, and say unto them, I ascend untoMy Father, and your Father; and to My G-D, and your G-D.” Mark 3:33-35 “The Messiah answered them, saying, “Who is My mother, orMy brethren? And He looked round about on them which sat about Him,and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whoever shall do TheWill of G-D, the same is My brother, and My sister, and mother”……. The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, HE has no brother,or sister, or mother……. Rom 8:29 “Whom G-D did foreknow, he also did predestinate to beconformed to the image of HIS Son, that The Messiah might be thefirstborn among many brethren”……. The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, HE has no brethren……. Clearly, and simply, “The Messiah is The Son of The Living ONE and Only TrueG-D, Father(Creator) of ALL”…….————There is Only ONE True Living G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL……. And The ONE and Only True Living G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, HE Created allthingsby The Messiah……. And “The Messiah is The Son of ONE and Only True Living G-D, Father(Creator) ofALL”……. The Messiah testified that He had a “G-D and Father” and that His “G-D andFather” wasalso the “G-D and Father” of His Brethren……. And The ONE and Only True Living G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, HE has no god, forHEIS G-D, and HE has no father, for HE IS Father(Creator) of ALL, and HE has nobrethren,for HE IS Father(Creator) of ALL……. I for one would love you to see Jesus as a man in whom God resided. This might help u see why some statements in the Bible make him seem like just a man. While other verses make him seem like God

thinkaboutit (not verified)

at 22:14 on August 9th, 2009

If your confused now, try this:

the Holy Trinity: God + Jesus + the Holy Spirit = God.

Rob Walker

at 03:30 on August 10th, 2009

You should really put the opinion tag on this story...

info.star

at 23:00 on August 10th, 2009

I think you should put an opinion tag on your opinion of my story.

Grace H

at 11:46 on August 31st, 2009

Jesus is God in human form. To do this he was born of a woman who at the time of birth was a virgin. This was done so that he precludes "original sin." By being born in a holy way he is divine. He is still God. Simply in a way that human at the time of his life could tangible interact with him... It is hard to grap and explain. Even now i have difficulty articulating the beliefs.

He prayed to his father in heaven.

God sent the angel Gabriel. He is all seeing, all knowing, and all powerful.

info.star

at 12:43 on August 31st, 2009

This notion baffels me,

If people feel Jesus is the son of God because he had no father then why dont people call Adam the son of God as he also had no father.

How could God send the Angel to Mary when God was comming as Jesus?

How could Jesus be God if he was sacrificed on the cross? are you saying that God died on that cross?

Why would Jesus pray to God if he was God?

Why did Jesus say to direct all acts of worship to God?

Why did Jesus say, "I of my ownself do nothing"? if he was God?

Why did Jesus say to the travelling man who called him great, "whyfor dost thou call me great? none is great but our father in Heaven" if he was God?

You should look up something called Codex Sinaticus that the scholars are studying at the moment, reported to be the oldest manuscript to date about 1600 years old, it is very interesting although inacurate in places.

Also the letters of James the brother of Jesus which were ommited from the Bible, they tell a different story of Jesus.

May God guide you and all of us.

Grace H

at 13:00 on August 31st, 2009

God is all powerful (omnipotent), meaning he can do anything; He is all present (omnipresent), meaning he is every where at once; and he is all knowing (omniscience), meaning he knows the future, the present and the past. These characteristics answer some of your questions.

God creates Adam. But he did not create Jesus. This he can be called son as born of a mortal woman-- Mary.

Yes God died on the cross. But he was resurected. This was done to ensure forgiveness for sinners. Without that sacrifice no one is worthy to even ask for forgiveness let alone recieve it.

Some of his mannerisms have to do with the culture of the time. Also, he did not come to create a new religion but transfrom Judaism.

Why did Jesus say, "I of my ownself do nothing"? if he was God? -- This is because he meant his words were not just that of a mere mortal. His intentions were not of human origin but divine.

Why cant people accept that Jesus was not God or his son but that he was a very special Prophet, Jesus never claimed divinity or anytrhing that has been attributed to him in the religion of Christianity.-- He does claim it. In his trial by the religious council. A seperate time he says "Anyone who has seen me has seen the father." He claims in throughout Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. These are four similiar accounts of his life.

Many things were omitted from the Bible due to relevence and othe myriads of reasons by Church leaders during the Middle Ages and the Enlightenment. I cannot account for why or what all was ommited. But when i visit Italy I want to look into viewing some of the texts in Vatican City.

info.star

at 18:54 on August 31st, 2009

I understand that God is everything but that does not mean that all that is in Christianity comes from God. As it is universily known that the Bible has numerious mistakes, this fact has been admitted by Christian scholars.

If God did not create Jesus then who did? did Mary do it all by herself? No she was visited by the Angel Gabriel who told her of her selection by God to bear a son who would bring his word, making Jesus a prophet of God.

How can you say God died on the cross? God cannot die as he suffers not what his creation suffers, he needs not to eat or sleep. He was not created nor will he ever die.

If God (I think you mean Jesus) died on the cross then why did he say, "my father why have you forsaken me?" Who was he imploring?

Jesus did not come to transform Judaism but to put it back onto the correct path as they had began to deviate, and sin was alive again in a major way.

I take the statement, "I of my ownself do nothing" to mean, that he has no power and can only do a thing if God allows him.

I would like to ask you a question, If Jesus was God then why did he need the Angel Gabriel to teach him the knowledge of the Torah and the Bible in his cradle, wouldn't he have already known it seeing as it was his own revalation, were he God?

As a point Jesus does not claim Divinity throughout the Bible it was claimed for him in fairly recent versions of the Bible by various people.

In the Bible we have now their are many times that Jesus refutes divinity, claims to be sent by God to do the bidding of God, and refutes the idea of a trinity.

Some examples,

" My father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my father's hand" John 10:29

" I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him" John 13:16

" He who does not love me does not keep my words, and the word which you hear is not mine but the father's who sent me" John 14:24

" You heard me say to you, I go away, and I will come to you. If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the father; for the father is greater than I" John 14:28

" The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the lord is one." Mark 12:29

Their are many verses in the Bible that speak of Jesus and God being one as you have said, but it does not mean the literal sense of the word one, as Jesus also said, "They also may be one in us" and, "they may be one even as we are one" John 17:18-23, tells us how we can attain this, "oneness" with God by being, "sanctifed through the truth"

As a further statement I would like to speak of the notion of the Trinity, If Jesus said, "I and my father are one" he also said to the diciples, "we are one", so why are the deciples not included in the Trinity?

I would like to make a point here, because Jesus is refered to as Lord in many areas of the Bible I feel this is the confusion, I would like to say that in the time of Jesus, before and still to this day people of position were and are refered to as Lord out of respect, now, if you read the storys in Matthew, Luke and John this matter will be clarified.

If the word Lord was given a literal translation you would find it to mean, "guardian of the bread"

As a point I would ask you to read the verses around, " anyone who has seen me has seen the father" study them well, I mean really well.

I understand that many things were ommitted from the Bible but it seems very strange to me that all that was ommitted backs up a very different view of Christianity, the very same view of Jesus's own brother, that Jesus was mortal man, a Prophet with no divinity what-so-ever.

I pray to God that you are guided in your visit to vatican city, and not wanting to dampen your interest in any way as I believe we should all seek knowledge, but the texts you speak of are not for the eyes of the normal persons, they are for the scholars. The normal people just get spoon fed what the higher authorities want us to know.

theswamme

at 05:42 on September 1st, 2009

Sounds like you are confused. Dont get me wrong, being confused trying to find your path is better than being Lost. It happens All the time. At least you are trying to understand. But I contend Faith comes from believing with your heart. You sound very versed in Scripture. Do not study too hard. Let it come to you, have faith. By doing good and Loving your fellow man. If you open your heart, Share love, do your best, Do not Judge and Accept. To Accept is to be saved.

Jesus fan (not verified)

at 11:52 on October 2nd, 2009

I think Christians should see Jesus as a man with flesh( from Mary) in whom God dwelt in in a special and unique way. God fills the entire universe and his ways are above our ways His comprehension and ability are vastly greater than human thinking can concieve. You are right in saying the Bible texts seem to have contradictions( or as Muslims say has been corrupted). But on the whole the will of God for man in the Bible is in no way corrupted. Ancient manuscripts dating back to about 200 AD have been picked inwriting the Bible. I suggest u let the Holy Spirit of God interprete the meaning of the Bible to you rather than read it as atextbook or let 'you brain' search out for contradictions. The Quran itself has inconsistencies, logical and scientific errors. The Muslim belief of the Qurans preservation is suspicious and the final compilations occur more than a centuy after Muhammed's death. Recent archaelogical discoveries at the Great Sana'a Mosque in Yemen show there are manuscripts of the ancient Quran(dating even within the first century after Muhammed's death) which do no tally with today's Quran. The manuscripts reveal many other things. This is a world where the gold(truth) looks corrupted form (ore) and deathly traps loks honest,sweet and perfect. I plead with u to come back into the fold of Jesus and accept the precious blood which was shed at the cross of Calvary for the remission of sins. God loves you. God loves mankind. God loves his children specially too.

Jesus fan (not verified)

at 12:28 on October 2nd, 2009

I think I will try to clarify some issiues you raised. I believ shortly before his death Jesus had to sacrifice and put all the Divinity that rested in him aside. He became very human. just like a normal mortal. That what why he could feel the pain, he could be wounded, he could be pierced- He sought of became somewhat different from the Jesus we knew who walked on water.(God pardon me if I am wrong). That was why he could say " My God, My God why hast thou forsaken me". This even proves that somehow God was with himor in him but deserted him on the Cross. He even resurrected as a man after his glorious defeat of all the powers of darlness that was why he said "I have not yet ascended to my Father My God and Your God". Jesus says somewhere " I am in the Father and the Father is in me". Jesus was inside God while God resided inside him (inside the fleshy Jesus). Jesus says somewhere to a rich man "Why callest thou me good? for there is only one good that is God" Here again Jesus shows that he is a man.But we all can judge Jesus as good(I mean perfectly good). Even the Quran acknowledges him as the sinless one. But he claimed no one was good only God. Thus God was in him. Gospel of John says in 1:1" In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was divine" Somewhere I think in verse 14 it says "and the Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us" The "Word of God" found a way to enter flesh in order to express itself to us. And we already see that that word was divine or God. This is similar to the methods by which demons possess a human. The demon resides in the flesh of the person (which is like a house) meanwhile the persons spirit lets say Kate spirit is still within her within that period of inhabiting the flesh the demon can express or manifest itself. After Jesus(fleshy or man Jesus) arose he ascended to the Father and as he told some Jews before before "I do not seek mine own glory,You cannot honour me, my Father will honour me" he became deified He recieved powers from God as he said "All power in heaven and earth is given unto me". He (fleshy Jesus) had thus assumed the character of God himself but instead of him existing as a different being we should see him as being "Absorbed into God". So when some Christians say Jesus is their God I don't think they have 'blasphemed'. Jesus is real and I know it I have seen his power turn lives around for the better, he has released people from shackled. Here in Africa strong charismatic Christian groups are springing up (sadly just as demonic and or money-making ones are), I have seen people delivered from serious demonic affliction e.g madness, epilepsy and a host of others. Jesus even saved me from along time sexual sin (Masturbation) which I had for 4years struggled with). JESUS is real and powerful. I just love him no matter the situation of things.I wish you could too. Bro Emmanuel Asus.

theswamme

at 11:56 on August 31st, 2009

The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. I believe they are 3 seperate entities working in conjunction to make this world a better place. God Created. Jesus was Sent, to instruct the Will of God. And The Holy Spirit is within All who accept Jesus's teachings and believe in God. They all are OF God, but Not God.

asush (not verified)

at 10:49 on September 4th, 2009

If you feel confused about the God-Jesus relationship. pray to God to give you the Holy Spirit. i know as a Christian this Trinity perspective is the most confusing part to many on Christianity. But come to think of it God is more complex than our human minds can percieve. In the Bible we see his will of salvation for manking thriugh ! the convenant with Israel and 2 the convenant through the blood of jesus. A good way of thinking about the God Jesus relationshipis through analogy of water. Water could be seen as a tri nty of ice, (water liquid) or steam. i will explain this interesting viewpoint of mine lateron. But something I want you to know is that monotheism should not make u feel u are worshipping the True God of the Universe(Yahweh of Israel). Afetr extensive research I found out Allah had been worshipped in Pre Islamic Arabia as a pagan god(these gods including Allah are demonic spirits). Muhammed and his Quran drip with evil, hatred. Dont be decieved by the supposed miracles and science.of the Quran(many of which have been shown to be inaccurate).(Do not forget demons are very intelligent and infact know more about science and our world than we humans do. So science in Quran could be brilliant revelations of Demons. Do not forget some science and speculation existed even in the pre islamic world Some of which are coiuncidentally trueare incorporared inthe Quran

info.star

at 09:51 on September 5th, 2009

Salaam,

Yes it is confusing seeing as it is nowhere in the Bible. While water, can come in a trinity, ice, liquid and vapour, its chemical make up is still the same, H2O.

It does not take extensive research to discover that Allah was worshiped in pre-Islamic Arabia, as Allah is God and people worshiped God. Allah signifies one God, who do you think Prophet Muhammad worshiped before revalation came to him?

Do not try to jazz up what you think you no with what you believe to be fancy words or explanations.

How do you say that Muhammad and the Quran drip with evil and hatred without giving any examples? have you ever read or even heard the Quran as I have? do you even no what it contains? I think not.

I ask you if the science in the Quran is inacurate, why have so many scientists converted to Islam?

In all of your posts you have spoken but given no examples for any of your opinions, why is this?

If the Quran is inacurate then you explain to me how the promise of Allah within it came to pass fairly recently? I will see your knowledge if you no what I refer to.

And finally I would like to remind you that as God controls everything he is the one who has ultimate control over the demons as you call them, remember he gave them respite not the othner way around.

Yellow Guitar

at 12:32 on September 4th, 2009

Maybe it helps to think of Jesus as the "Word made flesh" (as John put it in the opening lines of his Gospel) whereby Christ is an expression of the mind of God, as well as the necessary atonement for Humanity's sin (ergo the name 'Lamb of God')

As a concept, the Trinity has been a stumbling block to many religious Jews, who regard it as polytheism and contravening their belief in 'hey Isreal, the Lord is One', while Greeks regarded it as gibberish given their belief that a thing cannot be of more than one essence.

However you slice it, the concept of Triune God is a challenging one. Perhaps human language is inadequate. I tend to think of it as an attempt to make the nature of the infinite God of the universe somewhat intelligible to a creature with a head the size of a coconut.

Cheers.

asush (not verified)

at 14:13 on September 4th, 2009

Jesus was 100% God and 100% man.How can that be you may ask. Take this analogy-Think of a vast amount of water. Think of a hollow plastic image of a man. Think of billions of this hollow plastic toy manufactured. Think of the vast amont of water filling one of this billions of hollow plastic toy. The vast amt of water in my analogy could be seen as thetrue God of the universe. The hollow plastic toys are human beings. The only hollow plastic filled with water is Jesus. Would you call that hollow platic toy filled with water "water" or would you rather call it "hollow plastic toy". You see Jesus could be seen as neither man or God and yeth Both. The Quran even says that "we sent our spirit into Mary". If the hollow plastic toy says "No toy is refeshing, only water is refreshing".Would u say yes we"ve caught him he is not water. Listen to this statement of Jesus"the son can do nothing of himself,It iss the father that does it (sorry I dont cram Bible but check it up).Another place it says "I am in the Father and the father is in me".But what happened at the cross when he shouted " My God ,My God why hast thou forsaken me" Its simple. God stayed in Jesus all this while so that Jesus would be a sinless, perfect man. He had the nature of God. This was a plan by God to outsmart the belief of the Chief of Darkness Satan that no human could be sinless. So somewhere just before the crucifiction probaby around the arrest the "water was emptied off the hollow plastic toy" and God"s ingenious scheme and promise that the seedof Eve would crush the serpents head was fulfiled.

info.star

at 10:38 on September 5th, 2009

Salaam,

If Jesus was 100% God why did he refute this claim?

Jesus could be seen as man as he had to eat, sleep etc just like a man.

Jesus could not be seen as God as their are numerious passages in the Bible that give us clues to the reality of Jesus, some examples for you are,

John 14:24 and 14:28, John 10:29, Luke 18:18-19

The referance you make to, "I am in the father and the father is in me" Jesus also makes the same referance to his deciples, so should they be in the trinity aswell?

This is in referance to the oneness, not oneness as you believe but oneness as in the one message of one God that jesus was delivering to the people.

Oneness also has been explained in John 17:18-23, It is explained here that we normal human beings can attain this oneness with God by being "sanctified through the truth"

What do you think Jesus ment when he said,"they also may be one in us" and "they may be one, even as we are one"?

God does not need to outsmart Satan, this implys that God is somehow deficiant, that Satan can no more than God, which he cannot as Satan is only allowed cirtain things by God.

asush (not verified)

at 14:58 on September 4th, 2009

You see back to your question of God being One . God fills everywhere but can decide to emphasize or concentrate his presence in a placee.g the Ark of the Conenant, r the most holy of holies in the Temple. So I see nothing strange in God filling up a human"s body and still remaining the universal one God. Monotheism doesnt always mean the worship of the true God. The prophets of Baal where probably monotheistic but not inb Yahweh but rather inBaal (an evil pagan demon) ignorantly worshipped by men. If Baal and Allah are companions indarkness will the "ease of mind tou derived from monotheism link u with the trur Yahweh of the Universe. I guess not. I wont judge Muslims bcos my boss Yeshua(Jesus) told us not to Judge anyone but I fear many (1.1 billions) muslims are worshipping a demon to whom the characteristics of Yahweh of Israel was falsely bestowed(no thanks to hypocritical double face dand double tongued Mohammed). As for Jesus praying and other acts that sem to make him not seem divine. What if he was just trying to teach the disciples how pray(A msater might need to deep his hands into dirt or earth to teach one or two things.This doesnt stop him from being a master).What about other parts of the Bible talking about God raising Jesus up or bestowing a name greater than other manes. I wouls say that the fkshy Jesus(Hollow plastic toy in my analogy) was the one recieving all these glorifications, blessing , dominion and deification from God that was "possessing Him". I hope my Ideas helped a bit.

info.star

at 09:26 on September 5th, 2009

What about when Jesus went up into the mountain alone to pray, who was he teaching then?

Yellow Guitar

at 10:14 on September 5th, 2009

I would suggest Jesus went to pray alone to strengthen himself for the push to the cross, which every fibre in his very human body would violently oppose. He was, after all, a man not entirely unlike you and me. The fact that He was without sin doesn't mean He was without temptation. He conquered it because of His total and complete submission to the will of His Father. I think this story has a teaching application today, i.e., if Jesus himself had to spend time alone in prayer with God in order to face the struggles that lay in our path, how much will should we?

I'm not sure what the claim 100% God and 100% man actually means. Like the Greeks of antiquity, I find the claim basically unintelligible. However, I do accept that Christ was God's living message and a "lamb" for all mankind (in the Jewish Passover sense.) And he was able to call down the ultimate power of God the Father at any time, although He chose not to in order to fulfill His destiny as Saviour of the World. There was nobody else on earth qualified to play that role, so in some strange way, God had to send part of Himself to act as the recipient of His own wrath at human disobedience and stubborn self-centeredness. I hope that makes some sense.

Regarding your objection to the notion of 'God dying on the cross', rest assured that the Bible doesn't say anywhere that all of God was present in Christ. In fact it states clearly that when Christ was on the cross, God turned His face away from Christ. Hence the words from the cross "God why have you forsaken me?"

asush (not verified)

at 15:10 on September 4th, 2009

Try visting www.bibleprobe.com or www.islam-watch.org or www.answering-islam.org

asush (not verified)

at 14:06 on September 6th, 2009

Can you then explain the magical demonic use of some suas and aya s of the Quran. If u don"t know about these I can tell u have seen and heard reports of the demonic use of the Quran .Powerful charms created from it even using the name of Allah. I think u were served cold version of Islam and the Quran that currently is tormenting the West and allied nations but for a person like me whole in an almost Islamic nation) I can tell udeep truths of the Quran that even your 2 years of Islamic stuies will never reveal to you. Also Mohammed according to the Hadith was bewitched by a sorcerer Labid Al Asam by his hair strand. He had sex with 9 yr old Aisha9 anotwell sexually maturd girl).Muslim apologetics have claimed this was the tradition during that time . But couldnt Muhd have recieved a new Surah from the "all knowing" Allah that this girl was not very sexually mature. In my country North Islamic girls given away as early as 10 have vesicovaginal fistulas thanks to Islams "rich" culture. Also Muhd stole Zaid wife after hs penis couldnt stabilize after seeing her half nude. He then claimd to have recieved a revelation from Allah . For the sake of his wars, murders and many other vices Muhd cant be atue prophet of Yahweh. Yahweh hates bloodshed even political wars check David of the Bible. Yahweh didnt allow him to build his temmple just because of bloodshed . Now, Muhd kills not even to defend his country but to enslave more under his beliefs and crush all those who oppose his belief). He killed 700 Jews and curses those who dont believe him in the Quran. How about the Satanic verses. Muhd clearly fails (imrass- infallibilty of a prophet). He was also enslaved by magic(how could he be the last and mightiest of prophets)

asush (not verified)

at 08:45 on September 7th, 2009

I would like yoy to give me at least 10 of such scientists who converted to Islam. Who told you there aren"t even far more sientist placing their fauth in Jesus Christ. Islam trumpets every little achievement it makes and silences,modifies or justifies its evils. Jesus didnt come in al-Ilah name He came in Yahweh of Israel"s name. All Muhd did was "copy" and "paste" the xteristics of the Yahweh of Israel to al-Ilah of ancient Arabia. The tem "the god" doesnt just suffice to place belief in him. I need to know his xteristic.. Isnt it funny to u that over 95% of the "prophets" of Allah are Jewish. The same Jews whom true Muslims vigorously hate. Is it right to say ICE is 100% solid and 100% water. If I set a question during apractical with 2 jars A-ICE and B-WATER . and the question comes is A the same as B. Someone who answers Yes is correct. Someone who answers No is correct.Its a matter of perspective. Are u viewing it in the naive physical sense or are you viewing it in the Chenical sense (both being H2O). Even in the physical sense experienced minds know that ice is water.

asush (not verified)

at 08:59 on September 7th, 2009

If ICE says "No object is transparent, only water is transparent" should we grab ice and say U are contradicting urself as to when u said or did things that only water would do. If ICE says "Water, Water why are u melting me" should we say aha "u see, ice is not water". If ICE says I was sent by water to cool your drinks should we say aha ice is definitely not water. Jesus humbled himself and did certain things as he knew he was destined to be a role model and a great inspiration 4 mankind . Over 60% of the planet endorse him today as a great man or a good man. Jesus says I proceed 4rm the father and truely ICe can be precipitated from water and then isolated. Enough of the arguments because my faith in Jesus as my God doent co e just 4rm Bible theology I have eexperienced him one on one and I know he is greater than all demonic powers. If u still feel Islam is a better alternative to ur theological headaches 4rm the Bible then well good luck. Afterall what were we given freewill for. Just dont join the team of true Muslims bent on wiping out Jews and unbelievers and establishing Islam as the world dominant or only religion at any cost be it innocent murders or Al Taqiya( lying to decieve the enemies in the Dar ul Harb). U know 4 every Judas who leaves Jesus there is some Saul out there who will experince Jesus and lead millions to him.

asush (not verified)

at 09:04 on September 7th, 2009

I just read Yellow Guitars last comment and it is excellent. I really hope u find Jesus someday

asush (not verified)

at 11:30 on September 7th, 2009

Can water crack. Yes water can crack if it is in solid form ICE. So can God die , can God be tempted. He could if he was in the form a mortal man or flesh. .By telling us he could do nothing of his own, he emphasized to us that it was not because he was aman he could do this but because God was in him. Just as ice can perform some rxnso of water because it is actually H2o. This is theproblem of the big 3 religions. Who really was Jesus? As for the traditional Jews they are so used to the idea of "water in liquid form" so they reject the thesis that "ICE is also water" or that "ICE is the son of water (another form of water)". They can"t still grasp the idea of "Water the liquid", "Water the solid" and "Water the gas". As for those of them(Jews) who still worship their Yahweh,they are only missing out on the atonong power of the Blood of Jesus. But as for Muslims. It is like picking "the liquid"(the god) and worshipping it. "The liquid" character must be spelt out. If I gave u a substance in a cup to drink and u asked me what it was and I said the liquid Would u drink it. The liquid could be alcohol, kerosene, petrol. So I have to smell it and if possible do some simple chemical test to ascertain it is "the one true liquid for Humans- Water". It would be calamity to say the hope of your salvation from fire is petrol. So as it would be to say ur salvation 4rm sincomes fromthe demon Allah. It would be a calmity to call ICE a (great) prophet of petrol.

asush (not verified)

at 06:59 on September 8th, 2009

About 1000 years ago it would have been heretical to say Mercury is ametal .Why? The "learned" men would say Metals are hard and they are solid so you must be afool to claim mercury is ametal. The same thing with the leaders of the Catholic church during the Copernican and Galillean times when it was been proved that the earth goes round the sun. They would refer to the Bible and say" ...and the sun stopped". (the Bible didnt tell whether the earth was rotating or static in that verse or Josha"s story but some men are too religious to let fresh ideas enter their head). If u"ve read the Bible well U would notice it was the religious elite who disbelieved Jesus and called him a blasphemer and a sinner. Some people are too "wise" or "learned" to recieve the message of God. Based on my analysis of ur write ups U never believed in Jesus teachigs(u were never a Christian in ur heart though u might have been born in a Christian home. Why do I say so( the complexity or "illogicality" of the God-Jesus relationship is seldom enough reason for a true Christian to leave Jesus). His life and teachings are so exceptional and unparraled by any religious leader in History