Truemors
is reporting from
Member
NP Rank:
NP Rank:
Man Dies in Winnipeg Emergency Room after waiting 34 Hours
Share:
by politisite | September 26, 2008 at 07:06 am
2215 views | 39 Recommendations | 32 comments
Photos
Is this what socialized health care would bring?
A man who was in the same hospital waiting room as Brian Sinclair says he told nurses and security workers he was concerned about Sinclair -- but says he was told they were too busy to check on him.
Brian Sinclair, 45, died while waiting 34 hours for care at the Health Sciences Centre in what some are now calling the worst emergency room failure in Manitoba's history.
The witness -- who spoke to CTV News on the condition his identity be withheld -- said he was in the waiting room Friday evening. Sinclair, who had previously had both his legs amputated, was sitting nearby in a wheelchair. He looked like he was sleeping.
The witness said when he returned to the waiting area the next night, the man was sitting in the exact same position and looked like he hadn't moved, so he decided he should tell someone.
"I don't think he's asleep, so we went to tell a nurse." said the witness, who was there with his wife. "The nurse said we'll go and check, [but] nobody ever went and checked on him. We waited another hour or so and we told another nurse twice to go and check." The witness said the nurse told him she was too busy and couldn't check right away.
The witness claims he told a security officer of the man's condition, but said the guard told him the case would be "too much paperwork."
It is not just a Canadian Problem
Dallas Man Dies After Waiting 15 Hours In ER
A Dallas man died at Parkland Hospital Saturday after waiting 15 hours in the emergency room for doctors to see him.
Mike Herrera went to Parkland Friday afternoon. He had been playing golf, but cut his game short because he was having abdominal pain.
He waited in Parkland's emergency room all night before doctors saw him Saturday morning.
He began vomiting, and not long after staff had taken him to an examination room Herrera collapsed and died.
Parkland doctors tried for two hours to revive him, but they couldn't save him.
Herrera, 58, had a history of health problems, including hernias.
What is NowPublic?
NowPublic lets people work together to cover news events around the world.
Most Recommended Comment
Crowd Power
politisite
Columbia, South Carolina, United States
Most RecentMost Recommended Comments (32)
at 07:13 on September 26th, 2008
Yes Politisite, that is Obama's plan in action. He stated his health plan is for the 'healthy not the sick.'
at 07:20 on September 26th, 2008
Just to be fair, I added a recent incident in Dallas. Thanks for your comment. One time I went to the VA for treament. Took 6 hours, so I left and went to another hospital. I got a bill from the VA for x-rays, blood work, and other things... I only had my BP taken.
at 12:14 on September 26th, 2008
Public healthcare works in other parts of the world just fine. I don't have to wait for hours to see a doctor, and certainly not in an emergency.
at 12:24 on September 26th, 2008
The example here is so rare it is news, because healthcare is nearly always reasonably good. You don't know how good it is until you see the exception.
The synthesis is not symmetrical. --Hegel
at 14:59 on September 26th, 2008
Nice, a Hegelian reference on NowPublic...
... I suppose we could also consider those who die in the streets in a private healthcare system (they're not even allowed into the waiting room - so i guess they don't count)
at 19:04 on November 6th, 2008
Sorry, No hospital can reject a person for emergency health care. The facility must, by law, provide enough care to stabilize the patient.
at 07:39 on September 27th, 2008
Thank you for sharing your experience in Germany
at 23:34 on June 17th, 2009
Um... Parkland hospital is a publicly funded, government operated hospital. In short it's socialized just like the Canadian system. It's no wonder, and even expected, that it would suffer the same problems.
at 07:24 on September 26th, 2008
politisite, I like this story. It's good stuff.
at 07:26 on September 26th, 2008
Thank You
at 07:28 on September 26th, 2008
Scary. Last year my sister rushed over to the nearest hospital with a cut finger. Children's Hospital in New Orleans. They took care of her within minutes, even tho she had no insurance and obviously wasn't a child. And only charged her for some of it, and took half off for paying in cash (a check, actually).
Guess it matters which facility used or community your in.
at 07:47 on September 27th, 2008
When I lived in Augusta, Ga I received Health care rather quickly. Here in Columbia, SC the witing times are awful. So you are right, it really depends where you go. Very few people realize you can haggle your fee.
at 09:27 on September 26th, 2008
No, it isn't what universal health care would bring. The man died, because when he arrived at the hospital he never registered at the E.R. admissions desk to say that he wanted to see a doctor. Instead, he just went and sat down in the waiting room. If he had registered, he would have seen a triage nurse and then ultimately a doctor.
The fact that he died has nothing to do with the fact that Canada has a universal health system. It's because he never told them that he needed to see a doctor, so they had no way of differentiating between him and someone who was accompanying another person to the hospital.
at 09:40 on September 26th, 2008
politisite, I like this story. It's good stuff.
This is so scary and very sad
at 10:02 on September 26th, 2008
politisite, I like this story. It's good stuff.
Good story, but I wouldn't blame socialized health care across the board for isolated incidents like this - there are many pros to consider as well. Wait times are certainly a problem, but this particular story is especially troubling as no one seemed to even notice him.
I wrote about the Canadian health care system about a week ago, there's a good comparison against European models and discussion around public vs. private health care.
at 08:31 on September 27th, 2008
Thanks for adding your link
at 11:38 on September 26th, 2008
I'm sure this sort of thing happens no matter what the structure of the health delivery system. Humans err, and it was human error, not systematic breakdown, that caused this to happen.
One thing that rarely, if never, happens in Canada is bankruptcy due to medical bills. I have seen many reports over the years about middle class families losing everything due to medical bills.
This Harvard study from 2003 illustrates the point well, Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy
Or this 2005 report from the New York Times that states "hundreds of thousands of Americans file for personal bankruptcy because of medical bills."
And most recently, an LA times report from Wednesday put the number of Americans who declared bankruptcy due to medical bills at 2.2 million.
Source: latimesblogs.latimes.com
at 18:57 on November 6th, 2008
I disagree that the problem was due to human error and not systematic breakdown. Emergency rooms use a systematic approach to triage. One could blame it on an individual making a poor judgment call but ultimately triage looks at the ABCs Airway, Bleeding, or circulation (heart) as their first priority. If one has an internal problem.. they wait.
Where I do agree is that healthcare costs in America have increased faster then most sectors. When everyone needed insurance for automobiles rather then one paying cash. Body work and automobile repair costs sky rocketed. Healthcare has already become centralized in the offices of some insurance company. Cost rise as the older of insurance doesn't question costs. The day of the family doctor and paying out of pocket are gone. Folks didn't go bankrupt from hospital costs in the 60s-80 due to hospital bills. Once insurance companies were injected in the process costs skyrocked.
Legal issues added costs as well. The society want to sue for any issue. Again this has added a great deal of money to healthcare.
Hospitals are now part of large companies. This gives htem the ability to charge whatever they want. Public funded hospitals are going under everyday. The problem is mulyi-faceted here and something has to be done.. but from where I stand.. and being an employed by a Governemnt Run Hospital (Dept of Veterans Affairs) the focus is on quanity not quality. It is a big mistake.
at 22:00 on June 18th, 2009
Actually, the research on this is very shoddy. Basically, if someone filed for bankruptcy, and had any sort of health care payment in the past something like 6 months, they claimed health care costs contributed to their bankruptcy. Thus if you had a dental checkup, or broke a finger and needed a split, then 6 months later filed for bankruptcy because you lost your job, or had $20,000 in credit card debt, then they claim "health care costs contributed to your bankruptcy".
I short, very few if any of the people surveyed actually had hospital bills force them into bankruptcy. Not exactly that, but rather, the research here doesn't show it. Not saying it doesn't happen, but this isn't proof at all.
at 11:44 on September 26th, 2008
this is awful, i cant believe how they handled it! they kept saying they would check o him, but they never got around to it. its not the mans fault. a life has been loss which could of easily been saved. this is so sad and awful. so what if he didnt register, thats no excuse he was sitting there for 36 HOURS! why would he be sitting there that long? aint someone gonna ask him if he needs help, like come on! for real, this is unexceptable!
im am angered by this!!!
at 11:53 on September 26th, 2008
I think as more and more employers withdraw medical insurance, the tune may begin to change as more and more Americans join us the uninsured. I don't wish it on you, but so many don't seem concerned about a problem that easily could affect them tomorrow. Those who do have insurance, check you maximums, and pray your home or other assets can cover extensive health care once you have hit the ceiling.
I know, "can't they eat cake?"
at 12:03 on September 26th, 2008
politisite, I like this story. It's good stuff. The cost of getting ill without health insurance can bankrupt anyone. Prices are out of control.
at 07:34 on September 27th, 2008
Thank you for your comment
at 12:14 on September 26th, 2008
politisite, I like this story. It's good stuff.
To answer your question, "Is this what socialized heath care will bring?" I feel that it certainly could bring more instances of neglect and substandard care. Always when ther is room for error, the errors tend to happen most to the most vulnerable in our society: minorities and those who are disadvantaged (which is often the same thing). See the worse case senario at this link.
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/be-careful-bush-administration-stay-back-doctor-kevorkian
I don't mind telling you it is frightening to read about President Bush holding meetings on end of life issues and working out exemtions for medical professionals not to do certain unnamed procedures that they feel are morally wrong Right away, I thought oh, oh! Don't go working out euthanasia for mental patients and elderly poor people or terminal patients. I have concerns about euthanasias being performed to save insurance money instead of providing medical services when patients have no chance of recovery (or they suffer from the need for some medical procedure not covered by the plan).
When so many people believe they are the result of a sound (BIG BANG), they may eventually do anything to other sound-originated beings.
Mary
Mary
at 12:29 on September 26th, 2008
politisite, I like this story. It's good stuff.
Thank you for raising this concern. We do need better health care coverage, but we policyholders had better be careful to read our policies and make sure no changes can be made by the insurer (government elected officials) without our voting on it directly. Why heck, I read that 94% of Americans are against the bank bailout, and they seem to be going ahead anyway.
Who knows what they may decide to do if you need major surgery during an economic slump?
Mary
at 13:32 on September 26th, 2008
Who knows what they may decide to do if you need major surgery during an economic slump?
You would prefer to trust an HMO or other insurer with stockholders to whom it must answer to put aside its profit incentive?
at 07:24 on September 27th, 2008
That is where the insurance companies began dictating how long one could remain in a hospital. They call it mean length of Stay (MLOS) if one needs further care the Insurance company says they will refuse certification, thus the cost lands on the hospital and patient. It will be worse under a Gov reun system.
Doctors no longer are the descision maker in the loop. Since 1991 it has become insurance providers. I saw this when working at the VA with a patien with outside insurance. Our treament program was 6 weeks. Insurance would pay for 4 weeks. What did the VA do? made us change our program to 28 days.
at 07:17 on September 27th, 2008
The Government forgets that there is something called the constitution. The House is sopposed to be representitive of the people. I think that was Government 101.
at 13:25 on September 26th, 2008
politisite, I like this story. It's good stuff.
at 15:20 on September 26th, 2008
I went to an ER because I was having an Asthma attack and the triage refused to give me oxgyen because he said I was just having a panic attack. My O2 was at 84%. My daughter flipped out and took me to another ER. By the time I got there I was blue and going into heart failure. My O2 was now at 76%. I don't think it is the whole heathcare system but the incompetent people that are employed within our system. Another, case I am in the hospital and a no nurse answered my buzzer when I rang. I finally went out to ask for help and the nurse told me she was busy, and to wait until she was done, she was on a personal phone call. Then we my daughter was in the hospital a nurse kepe giving her morphine because she looked like she was in distress. This happened at 3 in the morning good thing I woke up because I heard my daughter gasping for air. After fighting with the nurse to get me the doctor they found out that my daughters lung had collapsed. Morphine supresses the breathing so this nurse with trying to find out why my daughter was in distress just pumped her with drug to knock her out (could have killed her if I didn't wake up). It is the heathcare professionals that are only in it for the money not for the passion like in the old day's. They can care less about the people that walk through those doors and if you don't have insurance it is even worse. In most cases you are ingnored all together.