New Energy Breakthrough: Sunpress: C4H10/ Inert Elextrix ......not to be confused with Solar Power.

Name    Symbol  Atomic     Boiling          Max. Avail.        Amt. in  the      Approx            

              Number                Point(C)       Pressure (PSI)     Atmosphere     US$/ltr.

 Helium    He      2               -268.9         6,000                    5.2 PPM        .10

 Neon      Ne     10             -246.07        6,000                   18.2 PPM       $ 1.00

 Argon     Ar     18              -185.88        6,000                  7600 PPM        .10

Krypton   Kr     36              -156.6         1,350                     1.1 PPM       $ 3.00

Xenon     Xe     54             -108.06          800                     0.036 PPM    $11.00

I am trying other gases such as the inert ones for nonflammability risks. Here is the rundown.

Rev. Jermano

Your idea is not new. Back in the 1930's there was proposed similar ideas using all sorts of gases, even ammonia. Your claim of "No energy used" to get the liquid back to 11 degrees is ludicrous! How do you think liquid nitrogen is made - you need a hell of alot of electricity to run the compressors and cooling machinery to make it in the first place!

I have an even simpler idea - make a giant Spoked Wheel - like a "Ferris Wheel". The spokes of the wheel are hollow metal tubes. The outer rim of the wheel is composed of multiple storage tanks for isobutane or similar low boiling material. The center of the wheel is also a storage tank connected to the individual outer tanks by the metal pipes. Each pair of pipes has a one way valve - inserted one way in the first pipe and the other way in the other pipe. Now mount the wheel on an axle through the middle and have it sit in a trough where water heated by the sun or other heat source runs through (can even be water from a dam that is warmed by the sun as it passes over a flat surface in a shallow sheet). As the water in the trough heats the isobutane in the first outer tank of the wheel, it boils, passes through the one way valve in the Spoke tube and collects in the center tank. Since the the wheel is now top heavy - the tanks on top still have the isobutane in them, the wheel will naturally rotate. Meanwhile the isobutane in the center tank has cooled and now returns down the other pipe to refill the smaller outer tank. The wheel won't rotate at high speeds, BUT if you make it large and massive enough, say 50-100 feet in diameter, you attach a geared transmission to the center and run an electrical generator off it. It helps to sketch this out to see what it looks like.

E=M.C2 is still valid Germano, You need energy and a lot of it as well for what you are proposing, Study Chemistry, Physics and engineering or talk to some that did and are serious stable minds and you will see the flaws of your proposal.

Thank you for the post.

Paschen: I am doing my own thing, as most people do. I learn and not asking for your approval, or disagreements. I think I have a good idea, and I am working on it in my own way.  I will make my machine and you can quibble and dissect all you want....because that is your nature. That is what people do. Find a way to discredit, dislike, make it worthless, and nonsensical. I don't believe in E=MC2. Einstein in my opinion is a mass murderer, a discredited hijacker of humanity, a fraud, a hack, and real time Terrorist. He doesn't understand why 2+2=4. 

Dr. Jeff thanks for your comment, but I can use other gases as well because Isobutane is flammable. Once Liquid Nitrogen boils when in contact with a warmer temp, this means it can be distilled back to its cold temp...without using electricity.  I can even use it if I used your wheel idea inside along side my generator to cool my cooling gas....which does not have to be Liquid Nitrogen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_nitrogen

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/aug97/865516277.Ch.r.html

Rev. Jermano

I use the medium as a record keeper. Not to gain Journalist notoriety.

I know the gases take energy to make, but they do not take energy once enclosed and vaccumed contained in my process. This is where you are wrong...

Einstein is not correct. Leave me be Paschen.

Rev. Jermano

freaky, freaky freaky.....

and reverend.....

Obama should invest on education to prevent this.

Ｉdon't need Obama money to make my machine. In fact it is already proven to work. They use it for geothermal development. They use the gas instead of water to keep the pipes from building up with calcium deposits. I only reversed the process by getting my heat source from the sun. Why are you people arguing with me? It is a proven fact

I get recommends from another article about this, and when I delve into the parameters toward using Sun heat, the very same people discredit it. Heat is heat, no matter from the Sun or inside the earth.

Read this and follow the Isobutane thread. http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=Facts+on+Geothermal+Drilling&fr=ush_mailm&u=geothermal.marin.org/geoenergy.html&w=facts+fact+geothermal+drilling&d=VFjYLELURrDU&icp=1&.intl=us...

http://my.nowpublic.com/world/geothermal-electric-makes-good-mortgages...

You people don't know what you are criticizing. It is proven to work with Geothermal Plants, how could it fail by using the SUN HEAT ENERGY?

Rev. Jermano

There is no merit to this proposal.  Geothermal power plants use working fluids with low boiling points ONLY if their heat source has too low a temperature to boil water.  Solar energy is easily concentrated so that one can heat the working fluid that drives the turbine to any desired temperature.  The efficiency with which energy in the form of heat may be converted to mechanical energy is 1-(T_low/T_high), where T_low and T_high are the temperatures of the low T and high T reservoirs, respectively.  Thus, you want to use the highest temperature possible for the high T reservoir.  Mercury could be used to raise the efficiency because it boils at a higher temperature than water (although other considerations make this an unlikely choice rarely implemented) but using low boiling fluids if you don't have to is merely a recipe for decreased efficiency.

The author might want to temper his uninformed enthusiasm with some physics and especially might want to reframe from critiques of Einstein's theories or character because these are clearly topics about which he knows nearly nothing.

Steven thanks for your comment, that really is about trying to make us believe there is no such thing as common sense. Clearly if they are using low temp boiling gas to make Geothermal wells work, because those wells have low temps, and can't boil water, they can use the same gas and philosophy of physics in using the suns heat instead. You are absolutely right in not needing to talk about.the scientific madman Einstein..

Rev. Jermano

djermano,

You still have not answered how you will get the liquid nitrogen once vaporized back to liquid. This takes a huge amount of energy to cool to -77.

I believe it takes -77 degrees Celsius to liquefy (from memory could be Fahrenheit).

If you are using the liquid nitrogen for refining the rest of the system and building a prototype that is fine for now.

But it will not be economical if the condensator problem is not solved.

The big wheel idea is very cool.

Even if not economical feasable it would be a very cool project to do and educate the masses. everyone can look at this thing operate and understand at some level.

Not one to just throw rocks at glass buildings...

The rest of you idea holds water in terms of functionality. whether it can be economical or not I am not sure.

The efficiency is tide to thermodynamics and depends on the difference between the solar heated hot and the "cold" condensation sink temp.

My twist to your idea is to have different solutions for different times of the year combined with different pressures.

You can get very high temp with solar concentration but need to condense to the earth temp.

Can exployt night time tempuratures with storage.

Good luck

If everyone understood everthing before they tried nothing would ever be invented!

Ron Davison

Dear Ron,

Thanks for your comment. I want you to know that I only mentioned Liquid Nitrogen because it is one of several gas options to use.

Presently this idea does work in Geothermal Development Wells. They use Isobutane. The reason I mentioned to use an inert gas, is because inert gases are nonflammable...It would add an edge of safety. Although it works fine by using Isobutane or Isopentane in Geothermal use, my plan is to invert it and instead of using earth heat to use Sun heat instead.

Yes the big wheel idea is interesting, but why spin a big wheel when you can spin small generator rotors instead?

My idea of using the cold gas is using it to make the condensing happen. If Isobutane is vaporized at 11 degrees, it needs to turn back to a liquid. If that vapor hit a condensor filled with liquid Nitrogen the isopropene will condense back to a liquid to be used again for revaporizing to create pressure in spinning a generator turbine.

The liquid Nitrogen would not change its temp by much, because it is used as a stationary cold element to help in condensing another gas back to its liquid state. I do not know how long a canister of Liquid Nitrogen stays viable, with the use of it in a condenser formation.

Have you ever made alcohol? People use water running through a condenser to cool ethanol vapors being heated. So I liken this step toward using liquid Nitrogen in place of water. I think the canister would last a very long time.

I hope you understand now what I am talking about in using the Liquid Nitrogen for.

This link shows how they use Isopentane or Isobutane gas in Geothermal Dev. to turn the turbines in making electricity. It works. Now instead of using earth heat we invert the process and use Sun heat. This is the goal. It saves a lot of money from drilling miles down into the earth to get heat to make it work.

 http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=Facts+on+Geothermal+Drilling&fr=ush_mailm&u=geothermal.marin.org/geoenergy.html&w=facts+fact+geothermal+drilling&d=VFjYLELURrDU&icp=1&.intl=us.....

Take the time in reading and you will see how this does work. Scroll down to where it says Binary Power Plants.

Binary Power Plants. In a binary power plant, the geothermal water is passed through one side of a heat exchanger, where it's heat is transferred to a second (binary) liquid, called a working fluid, in an adjacent separate pipe loop. The working fluid boils to vapor which, like steam, powers the turbine generator. It is then condensed back to a liquid and used over and over again. The geothermal water passes only through the heat exchanger and is immediately recycled back into the reservoir.

Although binary power plants are generally more expensive to build than steam-driven plants, they have several advantages: 1) The working fluid (usually isobutane or isopentane) boils and flashes to a vapor at a lower temperature than does water, so we can generate electricity from reservoirs with lower temperatures. This increases the number of geothermal reservoirs in the world with electricity-generating potential. 2) The binary system uses the reservoir water more efficiently. Since the hot water travels through an entirely closed system it results in less heat loss and almost no water loss. 3) Binary power plants have virtually no emissions.

Hope to hear from you again.

Dom Jermano

Hi Dom: My company is very aware that there is, in certain scales, affordable solar thermal energy ("ST") that can collect solar radiation then convert it to mechanical, and then to electrical. Along the way, if some BTUs are used for heat (or evaporative AC), thats a huge plus, as in Combined Heat and Power, because, the efficiency of collecting solar radiation is reasonably high, and bypassing BTU to mechanical to Electrical to BTU (heating/ AC) makes the process efficient. Simplest example are Hot water heaters, mandated for every home in Israel, and now I believe in RNC. There just collect the heat and use it as heat.  The fly in the ointment is thermo-mechanical conversion. As you know, there is a Carnot's law governing our enterprise, and it describes the efficiency limits for all thermal mechanical engines. A Low temperature differential (between the heated working fluid, and cold side/ exhaust) means low efficiency. Lets forget parasitic losses. I mentioned scale, because, there are a bunch of other overheads and issues, e.g., with CSP, there is cleaning the acres of reflector/ concentrators, thermal storage..

My conclusion is there are viable domains where Solar Thermal/ electrical generation is viable, in the small scales; Residence, Personal, home, field, through small industrial. There too, part of the trick to viability is manufacturing costs and knowing thy materials. My company is engaged to commercialize a) A high efficiency, low cost, Thermo-mechanical engine ignaminously called RET (until some party buys the name) which will achieve a very high percent of the maximum Carnot efficiency, better than Sterlings/ turbines and much cheaper. and b) Some natty improvements in the Solar Thermal designs.   RET's is working fluid/ heat agnostic and prime applications include small Solar Thermal generators, CSP, Geothermal, biomass generators, and for engines in whatever it can power: cars, trucks...  

Jay Rosenberg, CEO, Sannerprojects, USA Sannerwind@gmail.com

Thanks Jay,

I like the small Solar Thermal Generators as engines for Cars and Trucks, and for home use.

My mind tells me that we need some sort of  manufacturing method that can put the puzzle together. I am not for the big Corporate ideas in most alternative energy sided plans. Simply because of the nature of the Stock Market, the banking fiasco, and people taking over any business. There must be a way to create jobs by having specialized skilled people do their thing, and work toward that finished product....making it affordable to John and Jane....Address: Anywhere in the World..

Dom

The fact that people are trying to develope new breakthrough ideas is comforting.

This is what we need to do to fix our planet.