Obama ain't No 800-pound gorilla

by Barry Artiste | July 25, 2008 at 09:06 am | 570 views | 41 comments

Opinion
Barry Artiste. Now Public Contributor

With a presidential election coming up, Obama certainly doesn’t come across as a 800 pound Gorilla, McCain could be, but that is yet to be seen. But with strength, intelligence and experience should also be the prerequisite when coming to take official office, after all the New President will be inheriting the good and the bad from the previous administration.

The world will be watching with baited breath what the New US President will do next, from scrapping past policies to making new ones, guaranteed there will be those who will praise, and those who will complain. Resulting in someone not being satisfied, both the US citizens, it's allies, but it's enemies both economically and strategically will relish in the infighting as they hum along to business as usual in creating discourse in the world, knowing all eyes are on the US and not them.

The US for all it’s detractors, need to realize one thing, when push comes to shove the US will be there, as many countries in the midst of turmoil when the proverbial “Excrement Hits the Fan” the US as the World’s Calvary will come to assist when requested.

Granted US interests are far and wide in the world. Many state US greed, to that I say, US balances World Stability. We hear so much negativity in the media both in the US and the World, yet in strictly controlled media in Countries where Evil reigns supreme it is a closely guarded secret, only brought out when a conflict ensues. The US has a open policy for the most part in Freedom of Information style, where as Countries such as China, North Korea, Russia and the Middle East do not!

Hence why the US is it's own worst enemy on the other hand when it comes to the Media, yet open in many aspects to let the Public know what is going on, everything from having their reporters along for the ride during Conflicts, do China, Russia, Middle East or North Korea bring Media along to report the good and bad back home for it's citizens? Only if it serves their propaganda purposes.

The US has a two party system where Democrats and Republicans can openly criticize which ever party hold official office. Now China, Russia, North Korea, Middle East have opposition parties as well, the difference is, the Opposition parties there, if they do not mind their P's and Q's may find themselves and their families taking a long dirt nap, disappearing forever from Public view, with a media who may also be joining them if they too say anything derogatory against them.

So you need to ask yourself, who is the more Evil? Who would you rather live next to? Who would you rather be a citizen of if not happy with the US? There are many countries I am sure you could go live in, as I mentioned the above examples. But we all know, you would prefer not to, as you know for all it's imperfections, the US is the place to be, so why denigrate it? So Love it, Support it, Be it ! Cause there is a World of Citizens who will give up their lives to be here. And US Citizens who give up their lives ensuring those have not what you have, at least one day will have a semblance of normalcy. But it is really, really, hard when other World Powers are working against the efforts of the US in trying to let those who have nothing to achieve that peace and freedom. Just Remember that before you get out of your comfy chair to unholster your waggin finger, it was your forefathers of the past, present and the future that gave you that right to criticize! If I, as a Proud Canadian can see this, why can't you?

Many Liberals state the US as Evil, clearly are wearing Blinders over their right eye to other World Powers who are far more Evil behind the scenes, yet for some “Magically Fairy Dust Logic” are clearly rarely mentioned by those who feel the US is an easy target.

The US have “Saved more Bacon, than it Fries” on the Diplomatic Front, but there are times when Diplomacy fails, to “Cage the Doves, and Release the Hawks”.

Cause the “World Huntin is Good” especially for those other Evil World Powers who enjoy those whose constant media diatribes against the USA, which is a pleasant distract from those other Evil World Powers whose Talons continue to “Prey on Both Wings, Left and Right!”

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=677723

Why we need the 800-pound gorilla Robert Kagan, National Post Published: Friday, July 25, 2008

(Photo inset) A U. S. soldier throws an incendiary grenade during a patrol in Baghdad on Nov. 13, 2007.

Global public opinion polls suggest a strong international desire for a diminished American role, a move toward greater multipolarity and equality in the international system. In the United States itself, there are calls for humility, for a tempering of ambitions and a greater sense of limits.

But whether American power and expansiveness will continue to be the most pressing problem in the years to come, or whether it is the most pressing problem even today, is increasingly debatable. In a world heading toward a more perfect liberal order, an old-fashioned superpower with a sense of global mission might seem a relic of the past and an obstacle to progress.

But in a world poised precariously at the edge of a new time of turmoil, might not even a flawed democratic superpower have an important, even indispensable, role to play? As it happens, American predominance is unlikely to fade anytime soon, largely because much of the world does not really want it to.

Despite the opinion polls, America's relations with both old and new allies have actually strengthened in recent years. China and Russia have been working together to balance against the United States. But there are obstacles to a lasting strategic alliance between the two powers. They have entered into an arms alliance, if not a formal strategic alliance, with Russia selling billions of dollars' worth of advanced military technology and weaponry to the Chinese for use against the United States in any conflict that may arise. They have strengthened the Shanghai Cooperation Organization as an increasingly military as well as political institution. Yet they also remain traditional rivals.

Russians continue to fear that the massive and productive Chinese population will quietly overrun Russia's sparsely populated Siberian and far eastern territory.

China's manufacturing economy, meanwhile, is more dependent on the American market than is the oil-exporting Russia.

Another problem for China and Russia is that the world's other great powers -- the democratic powers of Europe, Japan, and India--are drawing closer to the United States geopolitically. The most striking change has occurred in India, a former ally of Moscow that today sees good relations with the United States as essential to achieving its broader strategic and economic goals.

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Rhonda J Mangus

at 09:26 on July 25th, 2008

good stuff:

Barry Artiste, I like this story. It's good stuff.

Barry Artiste

at 09:28 on July 25th, 2008

Thanks Rhonda, much appreciated

Rhonda J Mangus

at 09:36 on July 25th, 2008

Quite welcome, Barry!

Caoimhin1

at 09:59 on July 25th, 2008

good stuff:

Barry Artiste, I like this story. It's good stuff.

Barry Artiste

at 10:34 on July 25th, 2008

Thanks Caoimhin for the visit and the flag

djermano

at 10:03 on July 25th, 2008

Interesting take on it Barry, but you mention nothing of the cost and innocent lives lost. You try to blur us into believing Iraq was not a US failed Policy from the get go. You fail to mention that throughout history Hawks seem to be always flying because they can't seem to achieve peace. Their only interest is in war, and if there isn't one, they make one happen. Evil is a duopoly. Ones mans evil is another mans patriot. Politicians who do the crimes don't do the time, and the innocent people killed by US bombs never are recognized or get justice. Even in Vietnam with the Mai Lai Massacre, no justice ever came to those people. And the thousands killed in Iraq. No matter how much spin you try to whip up Barry, its not going to change the truth. Violence has no part in the world. It is the problem, and until we give it up without the fear of it, we will continue living in a blur and obscure reality.

I just can't buy this type of US praise. Sure its nice when the US is there to help with relief efforts because of natural disasters, but when the war buttons are pushed, I have to really take a clear look at what mission is being accomplished. Is the mission for American peoples interest more than the so called dictatorship countries, or is it for the people of that country. In Iraq I believe it is more of an American interest for the Oil first, and the people there are secondary.

We sure do not seem to being pushing very hard in Burma, and we certainly don't push the Chinese around. They are the last big Commie on the block in the World, and it is amazing how little is done or spoke about it in that regard. I remember the Soviet Union and how they were the bad communists in the world and news was about them all the time, but with China it is a different tune.

Barry Artiste

at 11:11 on July 25th, 2008

Thanks djermano, for the comment, well taken, I understand your position on War is Hell and Peace is Better, but to say the US is big bad Evil Killers, perhaps some perspectives my friend, when past Evil Countries had free reign in killing it's own populace, and if not for US interference, it would certainly be much worse today, if these despots had not been stopped in their tracks, not to mention the US lives lost in the conflict, many forget to mention "Conveniently"!

You say Evil is a duopoly. Ones mans evil is another mans patriot.

So with your logic, are you saying Pol Pot is a Patriot and the US is evil, lets see now;

Pol Pot massacred 1.7 of his own people, men, women, children in his desire to bring his country to the year Zero. If the US had not intervened, this count would have been exponentially higher if it continued to this day. Granted the US had a few bad apples, but certainly not on the scale of Pol Pot.

You also state the US killed thousands in Iraq. Remember the US also lost soldiers trying to oust Saddam. Do you catogorise Saddam a patriot like Pol Pot?

Let's look at Saddam's Patriotic record shall we?

Saddam, not counting his Mustard Gas and Nerve Gas attacks against Kurds,men, women and children with up to 15,000 dead or injured, not to mention killing and torturing Olympic athletes who failed to bring home the Gold, attacking Iran for it's oil. In ending in two decades under his rule close to 1 million dead. Granted the alliance forged in the past with the US, may at first seemed like a good idea, but when Power Corrupts, it Corrupts completely. You should know it was JFK who first reached out the hand of friendship to Saddam to place him power, not a Bush, Reagan or anyone else, they just maintained it.

What we both agree on is Violence has no part in the world. It is the problem, and until we give it up without the fear of it, we will continue living in a blur and obscure reality. But when those who suffer at madmen have no recourse to fight back, someone has to come to their rescue, as sure I am certain if you say a neighbour beating his child half to death, you would intervene. Would you then be classed a Patriot or Evil Interloper?

I disagree when you say you can't buy this type of US praise in my story. But on the other hand you state it is sure nice when the US is there to help with relief efforts because of natural disasters.

My friend as much as you are anti violent, and I respect that, you cannot have it both ways.

Oil is a big concern apparently for the US, though I fail to see why, as Canada pretty much for a decade has been supplying most the US needs for oil.

The US may have made friends with those, who eventually bite them in the ass. That was a mistake and a costly one at that. Bitten more times than I can recount.

In ending, I do value your perspectives, as they are much needed to balance my post. Just know, that I too see the big picture in all of this and balance the good and the bad in everyone first. And to me the US far outweigh any evil intentions when countries in the past like Rwanda, Iraq and Vietnam for examples can take out 800,000 of it's citizens with one fell swipe of a machete.

moonwolf

at 12:07 on July 25th, 2008

Come on Barry! The USA is in the business of supporting and setting up despots! They sponsored a CIA coup in Iran that took out the democratically elected government and installed the Shah! There are pictures of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with the US golden-boy client Saddam Hussein while they poured money and weapons into his hands. They supplied the chemicals that he used to murder thousands of Kurds and turned their backs while he did it after giving him permission to do so. They support and condone murder of innocents by despots anytime they think it is in US interests.

They are millions of miles away from any warm fuzzy moral high ground! LOL!

US military actions today have nothing to do with the lofty principles you attribute to them. No one gave them permission to make those decisions for other countries. As the global police force America thinks it has the God given right to be, it has done an abysmal job and is more corrupt as the Mexican Federales

This global police force uses summary execution of hundreds of thousands. The idea I guess is if you kill 100,000 people your bound to get the 100 bad guys that might be there.

Barry Artiste

at 13:17 on July 25th, 2008

The government may have some bad apples, as every Government does, and as I said before, JFK's Government Democrats long before Rumsfield , had in fact put his hand out first to Saddam and got him into power.

So perhaps my story is more so of the American People, Everyday people who are proud of their country and culture regardless of what some in power do to circumvent it.

All Governments, even ours in Canada have been complicit in Terror of one form or another, but that does not make all of us as Canadians part of the equation. Remember my last story a couple of days ago, when our then Sitting Liberal Prime Minister and his Government a decade ago demanded the release of a Canadian Citizen from a Pakistani Prison? (against the advice of their own intelligence agency CSIS and RCMP) That Canadian Citizen of Afghan-Pakistani Heritage was accused of Bombing the Egyptian Embassy in the 1990s, killing and wounding over 80 innocent men, women and children in the state of Pakistan. That Canadian citizen of our Country, Canada was non other Khadr, close personal friend of Osama Bin Laden and Father of Gitmo imprisoned Omar Khadr.

Before this another fine Liberal mess was the Air India Bombing over the coast of Ireland, where Canadian Sikh Terrorists in British Columbia were found to be directly responsible for the deaths of over a hundred men, women and children who fell from an exploding aircraft over thousands of feet to their deaths into the freezing cold ocean waters off Ireland, The Air India Inquiry trial costing damn near a Billion dollars it seems and lasting well over 20 years resulted in one conviction, and today the convicted person is walking free on our city streets.The Canadian lawyers in the Air India case retired with I am sure mucho big paycheques milking a trial that when all the evidence was presented there should have been dozens of convictions. But the Liberals needed those ethnic votes, cause let's face the dead victims, East Indians can't vote anyways.

Like I said my friend, the US may not be perfect, but then neither are we, and we as Canadians should not cast stones when our own Government sat back and let Terrorism Reign.

Anyways Moon, good comments all, thanks for bringing them up here.

moonwolf

at 14:06 on July 25th, 2008

I agree Barry. Most of the governmental mistakes that you reference have not caused over a million deaths and the destruction of a whole country though. I have no doubt that most Americans, presented with the facts rather than neocon propaganda, would want a cessation of the Iraq war, in fact the polls show that to be so repeatedly. The Government doesn't give a hoot what the citizens want though.

mpress

at 13:59 on July 25th, 2008

" They support and condone murder of innocents by despots anytime they think it is in US interests." moonwolf slandering America and Americans many of whom are members of NP is not worthy of debate. Please understand that hatred is not the way to convey ones opinion. We should try to avoid hate speech toward fellow NP members in your comments please...When you speak of Americas government you speak of Americans.

moonwolf

at 14:08 on July 25th, 2008

Not really. Polls show clearly and repeatedly that the President and the Congress and their policies have virtually no grass roots support in America.

mpress

at 14:22 on July 25th, 2008

well maybe you misunderstand what being American is. And maybe the lack of tolerance and vitriol towards Americans is a form of bigotry towards a group of people you do not understand. Look up racism..

Barry Artiste

at 02:41 on July 26th, 2008

Thanks for the comments Moon and Mpress, as for your comments Moon, Polls change like Imelda Marcos changes shoes, and after all Obama is American, so grouping all Americans a war mongers and evil is unwarranted, as Mpress explains. Your fight Moon is with a Government, as I am sure you do not mean an entire peoples.

mpress

at 14:01 on July 25th, 2008

djermano

at 21:10 on July 25th, 2008

Barry I know you just can't accept that America has done wrong. You can't see things before such atrocities occured. My point is if America is so great its policies in the world would have prevented such bad things from happening in the first place. It's only after we kick their ass, that we claim this false victory of a sort. We lay on the propaganda that we stopped dictators or ruthless killers, when in fact if we were that benevolent nation to begin with, those things would never have happened.

You say Evil is a duopoly. Ones mans evil is another mans patriot.

So with your logic, are you saying Pol Pot is a Patriot and the US is evil, lets see now;

.....What I am saying is that with the lie to go to War in Vietnam from the Gulf of Tonkin Lie....certainly did not win the hearts and minds in the region, to include Cambodia. In fact most of the people killed from Pol Pot occured from Phenom Phen who were pro-Western. It is similar to the acts of Japan when they invaded Nanjing in China and massacred over 300,000 people. Why? Because the West was in control of the government in China at that time, pushing their opium markets and gaining huge profits from the people and essentially wrecking the country.

BBC Correspondent Philip Short gives his take on the reasons to why things happened in Cambodia. http://www.international.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=21630

France conceded independence to Cambodia in 1953. In the next few years domestic opposition to the monarchy compelled Sihanouk to abdicate, in 1955, and call elections. "Sihanouk founded a political party and contested the elections himself. He sent thugs and police to break up opposition meetings and kill opposition candidates. Communists and all other oppositions were suppressed. Some oppositionists were executed by the military -- the Sihanouk forces made a film of one of these executions and ordered it to be shown in every movie theater."

The Communist Party took refuge in the bush, where in 1962 Pol Pot became the party head. In one of those odd turns of fate, Sihanouk was ousted in a coup in 1970, and took refuge with the outlawed Communist Party in areas they controlled. The Cambodian CP, which began to be known as the Khmer Rouge, grew rapidly from a few thousand in 1970 to some 30,000 by 1973 with control over about a third of the country. On April 17, 1975, the pro-U.S. government of Lon Nol collapsed and the Khmer Rouge marched into the capital, Phnom Penh, a city of 3 million. "Four to five hours after entry they told the entire population to leave, on foot, with what they could carry," Short said. "It took five days to get the first 8 miles; 20,000 died that first week."

The 1.5 millions deaths, Philip Short proposed, were principally due to "two emblematic decisions." The first was the ruthless evacuation of the capital. The second was the abolition of money. "Their idea was, no money, no capitalism. This decision was the root of many of the regime's evils. It abolished the miniscule area of free choice in the economy. People then worked without wages. If they offended their superiors their rations were withdrawn and they starved to death, or you were killed. There was no freedom to marry. This was the first true slave state of modern times."

Philip Short said that during his several visits to the areas still held by the Khmer Rouge near the Thai border he interviewed a Khmer Rouge soldier who had taken part in the forced evacuation of Phnom Penh in 1975. He asked the soldier, weren't there people who didn't or couldn't leave? Yes, the soldier replied. They were mostly old people. "What did you do?" "We killed them," the soldier answered. The soldier showed no remorse.

The great majority of those killed by the Khmer Rouge, Short averred, "died from starvation and overwork." He put the number of those directly murdered by the government and its agents at about 200,000.
The Dark Role of the United States and China
In the late 1970s the Khmer Rouge government launched a series of increasingly violent border clashes with the Vietnamese, ending with Vietnam's invasion of Cambodia in 1979, which drove Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge back into the jungle. This would have been an end of this murderous group, except that Vietnam's enemies decided to throw their support to the Khmer Rouge killers. Primarily this was the United States and China. These two great powers funneled material support to the Khmer Rouge outlaws for a decade. This morally repugnant policy ended only after the fall of the Berlin Wall, when knee-jerk anticommunism (the Chinese variety exempted) began to wane as a determinant of American policy.

Vietnam withdrew from Cambodia in 1989. In 1993 the UN supervised elections in Cambodia and Sihanouk was restored as king. The Khmer Rouge was officially outlawed in 1994. Though some trials of Khmer Rouge figures were begun they were dropped. Pol Pot, Philip Short said, "died peacefully in his sleep" while living under house arrest in the Khmer Rouge areas in a house with his wife and daughter.
Why Did It Happen?
The causes of the Cambodian killing fields have been widely debated in the decades since. All communist states did some of the things Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge did, but only the Stalin regime at the height of the purges of the 1930s reached the same level of ferocity. There are certainly recognizable elements of the patterns seen in Cambodia in the mass starvation of China's Great Leap Forward of 1958-60, when government-imposed policies caused one of the most devastating famines of modern times, or in the intolerance and often killing of intellectuals and the technically trained by Maoist fanatics during the Cultural Revolution of the 1960s. The Cambodia devastation was more sweeping for the comparatively small population involved.

Philip Short offered his own, somewhat controversial, list of contributing factors. He pointed to the steady shrinking of the Khmer state from its dominance of what is now south Vietnam and south Thailand 600 years ago to the comparatively tiny Cambodia of the 1970s. "There was national paranoia that the Khmer faced extinction. The Khmer Rouge wanted to develop at breakneck speed to resist an impending Vietnamese takeover. This had other and unexpected consequences."

Secondly, he said, was the Khmer Rouge's antipathy to the cities and its reliance on a rural peasant revolution. "A peasant revolution was intolerant and illiterate, like the violent, bloody European peasant revolutions of the Middle Ages."

Finally, he looked at the national culture. Where Maoism was "colored by Confucianism," he said, in Cambodia Stalinism-Leninism was influenced by Theravada Buddhism, the belief system of some 90 percent of the Khmer people. "This is a religion of compassion, but it teaches renunciation of the material world." This impersonal fatalism, he argued, insulated the Khmer Rouge leaders and soldiers from guilt for their deeds. He concluded that the Khmer Rouge were "a violent monastic sect" with similarities to a cult.

....The US did not intervene Barry. They were unable to stop the million + people he killed in Cambodia. If anything the secret bombings conducted by Nixon in Cambodia certainly contributed to the mass killings.

In fact Pol Pot died as an old man from a heart attack, never brought to trial.

You also state the US killed thousands in Iraq. Remember the US also lost soldiers trying to oust Saddam. Do you catogorise Saddam a patriot like Pol Pot?

In a way I do Barry. Because the USA was using him originally to fight our enemy Iran. We sent Donald Rumsfeld over to develop friendly relations. You like to say JFK gave Saddam the nod of approval, but JFK did not arm him to the teeth, or prod him into fighting our battles against another Muslim country (Iran) as Reagan eventually did. Think of all the Iraqi Soldiers who died for America by fighting Iran, who got nothing from the US. The US armed Saddam, gave him support, and we were actually helping him to build nuclear facilities, until he found himself in trouble in paying for his debts. When he tried to increase his price for Oil, the USA and OPEC literally refused to support it and abandoned him. What could he do? He decided to end the War with Iran, seeing that he was duped into fighting America's war, and decided to reclaim Kuwait as payment for the thousands of lost lives his soldiers died for America's war. We know how the US evicted Saddam from his own territory Kuwait, and literally massacred thousands of fleeing (retreating I might add) Iraqi troops. Not much honor I see from the US in doing that bit of so called mopping up.

Let's look at Saddam's Patriotic record shall we?

....Right Barry, and who gave him the mustard gas? And wasn't that gas for use against Iranians that we had no problem in them using it on Iranians, right? Not only was Saddam fighting for Iraq he had enemies all over him to include Iran, and Turkey. Do you know who the Kurds are Barry? They are not Iraqi people. They are Turks who are on the otherside of a Turkish Civil War who fled to Iraq, and occupied Iraqi territory. Iran was helping the Turks, so in my view Saddams view was he was protecting Iraq from Iran and Turks invasion.

Of course Nonviolence is better, and yet people raze me for supporting it. You are to think I want to accept the notion of hypocrisy, where the USA wants us to think violence is justified to stop violence when in fact it was caused originally by them? How are madmen created? We give them weapons and then take away their jobs. A guy beating on his wife because she cheated on him, because the other man had some money to send her way, but the so called madman was forced out of his job and came to wits end, and lost it. That's when we have violence. It is certainly no different in losing a job when comparing it to have sanctions levied against you, because you are trying to protect your family, and livilihood. Now we are doing the same madmen routine again with Mugabe in Zimbabwe.

My friend as much as you are anti violent, and I respect that, you cannot have it both ways.

Can't have what both ways Barry? Giving is always better than forcing people to do things. Our war with the world is in concern to Natural Disasters, not with our fellow men. When we advocate War, we get it. When we work to find solutions we get solutions. It's not hard to figure out. Terrorism is a result of not working to communicate to solve issues in a calm and reasonable manner. Violence is the epicenter of chaos, and no one wins or solves issues with a hot temper...such as Bush and his cronies have given to the world.

Oil is a big concern apparently for the US, though I fail to see why, as Canada pretty much for a decade has been supplying most the US needs for oil. You think Canada has all the Oil resources for the USA? Then why isn't Canada filling in the so called gas shortage void so prices are not so high? I just don't believe Canada has all the Oil America would ever need. Not only that; the USA also thinks about Israel and making sure Israel gets its Oil from a secure supporter. Israel certainly would not be in a position to get its Oil without US intervening with Saudi Arabia.

The US may have made friends with those, who eventually bite them in the ass. That was a mistake and a costly one at that. Bitten more times than I can recount......and so Barry here you admit it, yet your article does not really emphasize it. You just go on saying how no one is perfect, but lay the spin of unsubstantiated praise .

But Burma, the Soviet Union and China are certainly a different tune, when diplomacy seems to work for the present time, but remember my friend the US hold dear one Mantra, "keep you friends close, and your potential enemies even closer". The USA has no Mantra Barry, they only believe in pointing that big gun around forcing people to their enduring false idea of freedom.

That is interesting to hear Barry, especially about Rwanda, which the USA did nothing to prevent. I also can not accept that the USA is the only country to have used the atomic bomb to wipe out thousands of innocent people, as a justification for ending the War. Certainly that act did not end the war.....as I see it, it still goes on today.

Please support efforts to The International Institute of Nonviolence. Without Violence we live with hope and real security.

Rev. Jermano

Barry Artiste

at 02:25 on July 26th, 2008

Djermano my Friend, though I may disagree with you on some parts, I do have to admit you do your homework, and do not speak for the sake of speaking, for that I thank you to contributing to my story. On Rwanda unfortunately the UN made little effort to stop it, telling our troops to only observe much to the outrage of our generals, the UN were running the show, if the US had intervened they without a doubt would have been derided as interfering as they have been accused in Iraq and Somalia. It seems no matter what the US do, there will always be those out there who will slander them regardless. But then you also mentioned why didnt the US intervene with the Bad Commies, China and Russia as well. Two Nuclear Powers tempered the US in trying to stop them as millions and millions of lives would have been lost, and thankfully to cold war lessened at the Berlin Wall by its leader and people who handled it without US intervention. I surmise one day China will suffer the same fate, as will North Korea. Thanks for the comments.

René

at 11:15 on July 25th, 2008

good stuff:

Barry Artiste, I do like this story. It's good stuff. and thank you.

mettacara

at 12:08 on July 25th, 2008

good stuff:

Barry Artiste, I like this story. It's good stuff.

Barry Artiste

at 12:56 on July 25th, 2008

Thanks Rene and Mettacara for stopping by, most appreciative of the GS

René

at 13:40 on July 25th, 2008

Can I GS you again for this story and your responses? Thank you!

Barry Artiste

at 17:57 on July 25th, 2008

HAHAHA, I think if you try and GS it will not be pretty, as It will eradicate the GS

V_rod218813

at 13:42 on July 25th, 2008

My one question for you Barry, if it is liberals that "hate" America, then why did John refer to Washington as "the city of satan." We know the Osama bin Laden and Iranian PM Ahmadinijead have referred to Washington as the great satan, but why would Presidential candidate, John McCain say something so similar?

V_rod218813

at 13:46 on July 25th, 2008

In case you didn't believe me, here is the link:

http://www.nbc4.com/news/15532242/detail.html?dl=headlineclick

Barry Artiste

at 18:15 on July 25th, 2008

I am not refuting your statement V Rod, Liberals slandering America, really need to see the other side of the world.

You are currently in Afghanistan, now if you were to take an MLV troop carrier and go out to any Afghan or Pakistani village out there and state to all that would listen that you are taking anyone back to America, first come first served. I guarantee you my friend you would need a million MLV troop carriers for all the populace who would scramble faster than superman to take you up on your offer, and I am including any Taliban who would do an about face to get a ticket out of that Hellhole, even if peace and prosperity were in Afghanistan today, you would still need a million troop carriers. Now if America is such a Great Satan, why would so many people take you up on your offer.

Perhaps let's put things in perspective, when Liberals who state they are so unhappy, perhaps they should be where you are right now, to give their heads a shake. As I am sure by the next day, they would kiss the US soil once coming home in an instant.

Now the American people are Not the Government, which is accused as the Great Satan, the Government though is there to represent the people, and even in Canada many People feel their Government lets them down as well.

Countries that call the US the Great Satan, I would like to think mean the Government and not the people.

But then there are countries which state the US as a Great Satan, when clearly those countries are far worse, judging by all their citizens clamouring to get to the US for a better life. As I have always said, We as a Western Culture are far from perfect, but we have to be better than those who slander us. Especially based on the Flood of Immigration from those said countries to both our shores.

Thanks though for the comments though, certainly appropriate and appreciated,

mpress

at 21:15 on July 25th, 2008

Barry what can I say Liberals have just had the biggest baby tantrum for the last 7 years. All they have done is complain about everything. Well if Obama becomes POTUS and carries on the 'Bush War" you will see how all those weak kneed liberals react. It is like the child in the grocery store who is screaming like a spoiled brat. "Gore really won" "Bush Lied" "My tummy hurts" it is so funny..My next essay will be about the "tantrum"

Barry Artiste

at 02:28 on July 26th, 2008

Thanks Mpress, I was as surprised as you were when Obama flip flopped on Iraq, time will tell if either McCain or Obama will do anything positive as president, as their parties reputation is riding on it.