Obama's Big Spending Bill Will Fail, Because of 911!

by djermano | January 11, 2009 at 03:17 am

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The International Institute of Nonviolence

News&Opinion

By: Rev. Jermano

President Obama's plan to stimulate the economy and produce 4.5 million jobs will fail, just like the first IRS Tax Rebate Stimulus Check did, and from the 700 billion Bush and Paulson passed off to the corrupt Banks. It can't work, because the US has not taken care of 911 yet.

The financial heart is in New York City, and people are very aware of the lies to 911. They are intimately tied to 911, and people know that the 911 Commission Report is nothing but a pack of lies. People sense we Americans have been taken as prisoners in our own country, by the Outlaws who did 911; and we all know it was not binLadin, or Saddam Hussein.

Just what sort of magic is Obama expecting? People have figured it out, and I dare say business has stopped because we refuse to fuel the Corporate Criminals to make more money off our hard honest endeavors. Obama's package is nothing but toilet paper money propaganda to make us forget about seeking Justice to 911, just like they are making us forget about the National Deficit.

Oh you don't believe me? This video from Obama's own Senate District in Chicago, really makes the case 911 was done by the US Government.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4429289437231286745&hl=en

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/survivors.html

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/

So tell me President Obama, just what are you thinking and saying, that you will make jobs for Americans, when we can not even get the truth on 911? I call that a creditability problem, big time.

Why invest into a country when we know they are allowing crooks and murderers run it? Really kind of ignorant to do. And the rest of the world knows it.

The mortgage crisis is a minor issue to all of this. And I am telling you President Obama this depression is not happening because of failed banks, but because we the people know 911 was done by Bush and their secret crime syndicate. The American people are not going to believe the lies anymore.

' rel="nofollow">http://www.heartcom.org/LuckyLarry.htm"]

“Lucky Larry” Silverstein

You’ve got to be lucky to make $4 Billion killing on a 6-month investment of $124 Million

Larry's Own words to Pull it. http://www.archive.org/...ilversteinpullbuilding7...

Larry Silverstein is the New York property tycoon who purchased the entire WTC complex just 6 months prior to the 9/11 attacks. That was the first time in its 33-year history the complex had EVER changed ownership.

Mr. Silverstein’s first order of business as the new owner was to change the company responsible for the security of the complex. The new security company he hired was Securacom (now Stratesec). George W. Bush's brother, Marvin Bush, was on its board of directors, and Marvin’s cousin, Wirt Walker III, was its CEO. According to public records, not only did Securacom provide electronic security for the World Trade Center, it also covered Dulles International Airport and United Airlines — two key players in the 9/11 attacks.

The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for many years to the Bush family. KuwAm has been linked to the Bush family financially since the Gulf War. One of its principals and a member of the Kuwaiti royal family, Mishal Yousef Saud al Sabah, served on the board of Stratesec.

Now, consider: The members of a small cabal owned the WTC complex, controlled its electronic security, and also controlled the security not only for one of the airlines whose aircraft were hijacked on 9/11, but the airport from which they originated.

Another little “coincidence” -- Mr. Silverstein, who made a down-payment of $124 million on this $3.2 billion complex, promptly insured it for $7 Billion. Not only that, he covered the complex against “terrorist attacks”.

Following the attacks, Silverstein filed TWO insurance claims for the maximum amount of the policy ($7B), based on the two -- in Silverstein's view -- separate attacks. The insurance company, Swiss Re, paid Mr. Silverstein $4.6 Billion — a princely return on a relatively paltry investment of $124 million.

There’s more. You see, the World Trade Towers were not the real estate plum we are led to believe. From an economic standpoint, the trade center -- subsidized since its inception by the NY Port Authority -- has never functioned, nor was it intended to function, unprotected in the rough-and-tumble real estate marketplace. How could Silverstein Group have been ignorant of this?

The towers required some $200 million in renovations and improvements, most of which related to removal and replacement of building materials declared to be health hazards in the years since the towers were built.

It was well-known by the city of New York that the WTC was an asbestos bombshell. For years, the Port Authority treated the building like an aging dinosaur, attempting on several occasions to get permits to demolish the building for liability reasons, but being turned down due the known asbestos problem.

Further, it was well-known the only reason the building was still standing until 9/11 was because it was too costly to disassemble the twin towers floor by floor since the Port Authority was prohibited legally from demolishing the buildings.

The projected cost to disassemble the towers: $15 Billion. Just the scaffolding for the operation was estimated at $2.4 Billion!
In other words, the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 />Twin Towers were condemned structures. How convenient that an unexpected “terrorist” attack demolished the buildings completely.

WTC Building 7 was a part of the WTC complex, and covered under the same insurance policy. This 47-storey steel-framed structure, which was NOT struck by an aircraft, mysteriously collapsed 8 hours later that same day into its own footprint at freefall speed — exactly in the manner of the Twin Towers.

How could this have happened? Mr. Silverstein gave the world the answer when he slipped up during a PBS television interview a year later, on 9/11/2002:"I remember getting a call from the...er...fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."
As anyone who knows anything about construction can tell you, “Pull” is common industry jargon for a controlled demolition.
One thing is for sure, the decision to 'pull' WTC 7 would have delighted many people. Especially because it has been reported that thousands of sensitive files relating to some of the biggest financial scams in history — including Enron and WorldCom -- were stored in the offices of some of the building’s tenants: US Secret Service NSA CIA IRS BATF SEC NAIC Securities Salomon Smith Barney American Express Bank International Standard Chartered Bank Provident Financial Management ITT Hartford Insurance Group Federal Home Loan Bank

The Securities and Exchange Commission has not quantified the number of active cases in which substantial files were destroyed by the collapse of WTC 7. Reuter’s news service and the Los Angeles Times published reports estimating them at 3,000 to 4,000. They include the agency's major inquiry into the manner in which investment banks divvied up hot shares of initial public offerings during the high-tech boom. ..."Ongoing investigations at the New York SEC will be dramatically affected because so much of their work is paper-intensive," said Max Berger of New York's Bernstein Litowitz Berger & Grossmann. "This is a disaster for these cases."

Citigroup says some information that the committee is seeking [about WorldCom] was destroyed in the Sept. 11 terror attack on the World Trade Center. Salomon had offices in 7 World Trade Center. The bank says that back-up tapes of corporate emails from September 1998 through December 2000 were stored at the building and destroyed in the attack.

Inside WTC 7 was the US Secret Service's largest field office with more than 200 employees. "All the evidence that we stored at 7 World Trade, in all our cases, went down with the building," according to US Secret Service Special Agent David Curran.
What a neat, complete, and fortuitous turn of events was 9/11.
Incidentally, it’s worth noting that one of Lucky Larry’s closest friends — a person with whom it’s said he speaks almost daily by phone — is none other than former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
More on that cozy little relationship later...

"Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong,
which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country."
- Mark Twain

"Lucky Larry" Follow the money...More Questions...

Second, what are the details of the transaction? The precise details are unknown---at this time. (One would need to examine the legal documents...)

However this much is known and is public information: On July 24, 2001 the Port Authority of New York awarded control of the WTC complex to a partnership consisting of Silverstein Properties and Westfield America. Mr. Silverstein was the lead (general) partner and controlled Silverstein Properties. Mr. Frank Lowy controlled Westfield America. (Representing the Port Authority of New York was Mr. Lewis Eisenberg, Chairman of the Port Authority for New York. Eisenberg, was also former chairman of Goldman Sachs Inc., and is currently the chairman of the Republican National Committee. )  The winning bid from Silverstein and Lowy was 3.2 Billion dollars.

Silverstein and Lowy were required to make a down payment of $125,000,000.00. (According to the website "What Really Happened," Silverstein had two other financial backers, a Lloyd Goldman and a Joseph Cayre, who also put up a portion of the down payment.)

However, contrary to popular belief, Silverstein et.al… did not buy/purchase the WTC. The partnership only gained control of the WTC by obtaining from the P.A.N.Y. a 99 year lease in Buildings 1, 2, 4 and 5 and 9 and 400,000 square feet of retail space. Mr. Silverstein immediately insured the complex for 3.6 billion dollars.   This was accomplished under contract with Willis Group Holdings Ltd. who arranged and negotiated the coverage with a consortium of 25 insurance companies.

The contracts included coverage in the case of "terrorist attack." When the attack occurred Silverstein claimed that there were two different terrorists’ attacks and therefore the actual amount due under the contracts was double or about 7.2 billion dollars. In a subsequent lawsuit on this issue a jury awarded Silverstein an additional 1.1 billion dollars for a total recovery of 4.6 billion dollars.

In December of 2003 the Port Authority of New York agreed to return to Silverstein and Lowy the entire deposit of $125,000,000.00 that the partnership had invested to acquire control of the World Trade Complex. The P.A.N.Y. rejected a request by the Wall Street Journal to review the transaction. See:

www.whatreallyhappened.com/silverstein

WWW.911research.wtc.7/wtc/background/owners. www.911review,com.motive/insurance.

Third, will the Silverstein/Lowy partnership be required to rebuild the WTC on behalf of the P.A.N.Y?   I don't see why. They did not hold legal title to the WTC. They only had a 99 year leasehold interest. Why should they have to replace a physical building that they did not own? That means, as far as I can tell, they walk away not only with 4.6 billion dollars in insurance proceeds but also the 125 million dollars that they put up as a down payment.

For six weeks that has to be the greatest return on an investment in world history.   I think what has a lot of people confused is why should Silverstein collect all the insurance when the Port Authority of New York owned the property----and therefore took the loss. I guess that would have to be a question that can only be answered by an examination of the 99 year lease, the insurance contracts and the officers now in control of the Port Authority of New York. Perhaps Mr. Lewis Eisenberg can explain this peculiar turn of events.

Fourth, there are URL's that discuss or identify the issues relating to asbestos abatement and the problems associated with electrolytic corrosion at the WTC?

There are a number of excellent articles on the web discussing the environmental disaster that lay within the WTC, because of the existence of asbestos fire retardant. Two in particular are worth mentioning and they were both written by the powerful and influential New York Law firm of Arnold & Porter LLC. Just Google the name of the firm with the word asbestos and world trade center, and the articles should come right up.

(That there was asbestos contamination is beyond doubt since hundreds of first response people have died and many are now dying from numerous respiratory problems.) Noted below, the first URL is the affidavit and deposition of T.Scott Gordon. Mr. Gordon was with the architectural firm of Emery Roth Associates. These documents were submitted to the U.S. Senate Oversight Committee and relate partly to the serious problem of electrolytic corrosion at the WTC.

The second URL is one of just several websites that covered the disclosures by Mr. Gordon. The third URL is an interview of Karl W. B. Schwarz, former member of the Republican National Committee, and currently the president and CEO of Patmos Nanotechnologies Inc. Also, In February of this year Mr. Schwarz was interviewed by the Republic Broadcasting Corporation (You won't see any of this on either CBS or in the New York Times) concerning the 911 event. In that interview he disclosed the plans that were made in 1989 to completely dismantle the WTC. These plans were initiated not only because of the asbestos problems but also the electrolytic corrosion problems at the WTC. Apparently, the plans were dropped because they were considered prohibitively expensive.

The URL for Mr. Schwarz's website is www.karlschwarz.com. And the URL for Republic Broadcasting is www.rbnlive.com.

There is a persistent report on the net that either the state of New York or the EPA had ordered that the dismantling of the WTC commence no later than 2007.   As far as I know, this has never been confirmed.

However, it is well established that the WTC presented expensive and problematic issues concerning asbestos abatement. It was estimated that the cost of asbestos abatement alone would be in the neighborhood of 200 million dollars. And I think there is serious and credible evidence that the building was suffering from corrosion brought on by electrolytic reactions between the steel frame and the aluminum fascia. And then, according to Business Week, "the trade center was always subsidized by the city of New York.

It never functioned, nor was it intended to function, unprotected in the rough and tumble New York real estate market."  It was just another government subsidized white elephant.   Silverstein, a denizen of the New York real estate market, had to know of these problems before he gained control of the WTC.

So, the question becomes:

Why would Silverstein, a sophisticated, intelligent and knowledgeable real estate developer, pay 125 million dollars to get control of a building that was uneconomic, was an environmental basket case, and had serious corrosion problems?   And if it is subsequently determined to be true that the WTC towers had to be dismantled as a matter of law, (and that is a very big IF) then the question becomes again why anyone would pay 125 million dollars to acquire control of the WTC when they knew that the buildings would have to be dismantled.

A 99 year lease would make no sense at all. But, casualty insurance would make a lot of sense if you knew ahead of time that the buildings were going to be destroyed. It should be emphasized that dismantling the WTC by order of the EPA etc. would not result in the recovery of insurance proceeds.  This would not be a casualty.

Insurance recovery would only occur if there was a casualty, which is a legal term of art, and carefully defined within insurance law. One of those casualties, of course, would be a terrorist attack. Hmmmmmm..... But, cutting to the chase, if it can ultimately be shown that an order was issued that the towers be dismantled sometime in the near future----say not later than 2007, and if it can be shown that Silverstein et.al… knew this, then I have to believe it would be Grand Jury time.

Lots of serious questions have not been asked nor answered… one that comes immediately to mind; is there a record of this "problem" at the EPA? Has anyone ever asked to review these public records, F.O.I.A?

Bottom line: The destruction of the towers had several effects, all beneficial to the "lessees."   First, the "removal" of the twin towers and WTC 7 substantially tightened up the commercial real estate market in lower Manhattan. (Over 10 million square feet of office space was removed from the market in the blink of an eye---and that does not include the office space at the WTC 7.)

The problems associated with the removal of a serious environmental hazard (asbestos) vanished in a span of less than eleven seconds---the time it took for the towers to collapse to the ground. Third, the "lessees" of the WTC complex were relieved of the enormous financial burden of removing the asbestos and perhaps the dismantling of the WTC complex.

Fourth, the government of the state of New York and the City of New York had to assume the burden and the enormous financial costs of removing the toxic remains of the WTC.  The City of New York continues to be burdened with all the costs of all the people who died of respiratory ailments and continue to suffer from these ailments.

Law suits anyone? (But, you can't sue "Lucky Larry." It was those damned Arabs that did this.)

Fifth, Mr. Silverstein and company walked away with a windfall of 4.6 billion dollars plus their entire deposit of $125,000,000.00. Again, I can only guess as to how they did this when the only "insurable interest" they had was a 99 year lease.

But, it was a pretty sweet deal----unless of course you are one of the 3000 people who were murdered on that day.   And, this was all because of those pesky Arabs. They made it all possible; those daring young men in their flying machines.



We are now five years down the road, and so far no serious investigations have occurred, no grand juries have been impaneled, and nobody has either been prosecuted or otherwise held accountable for the greatest single event of mass murder in U.S. history. A lot of serious questions need to be asked of a lot of people who had the means, the motive and the opportunity to commit this crime.    This is not rocket science. This is just a murder investigation----that has yet to occur.    And what is the response of our government? Why we have to get Osama, and his merry band of terrorists, the Al Qaeda.        Whoops, I almost forgot. According to Fox news, Osama has been dead for nearly five years................... hmmmmmm,

Tom

http://redlineav.com/tsg.deposition.1.html

Scott was an architectural photographer for one of the WTC architects, Emery Roth Assoc. AIA
Also:
http://www.heartcom.org/LuckyLarry.htm

http://www.rense.com/general60/interviewwithkarlschwarz.htm

You need to address this issue Obama.

Rev....

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djermano

at 15:14 on January 16th, 2009

It will also fail because people do not trust Brokerage Firms anymore, because of the scandals that have rocked through the American Financial System.....from Junkbonds Milken, to WorldCom, Enron, Citigroups, and now Madoff.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090116/ts_nm/us_madoff_trades....

Consider no real change can come until they re-establish the Glass-Stengull Act.

Rev.

batvette (not verified)

at 12:30 on January 19th, 2009

"And I am telling you President Obama this depression is not happening because of failed banks, but because we the people know 911 was done by Bush and their secret crime syndicate."

And why please, if more than a smidgeon of what you claim is true, aren't we moving on now that said crook is out of office?

Let me tell you I think 9/11 was allowed to happen, and exploited by the Bush administration. I would even hold an open mind toward the idea they put Bin Laden up to the job.

However the whole "controlled demolition" thing. ESPECIALLY the building 7 "pull it" nonsense, is really absurd.

Let's just take that point and wipe our collective asses with it, shall we- and then you better ask yourself if the foundation of all your beliefs isn't equally silly.

1. If building 7 was meant to be destroyed with the other buildings in the complex, why did they not "pull it" at the time of the collapse of the other buildings?

2. If the building was wired with explosive charges, please explain why a decision would have ever have had to be made by ANYbody to "pull it"? Let's see, yes we "pull it" and the building and the evidence of our crime is destroyed... or NO we don't pull it and investigators and journalists flood the building and find all of our explosive charges as evidence of our crime. GOT IT. Yeah, that was a decision that was waiting to be made!

3. IF SUCH a decision was EVER to be made by anyone, would they do so within earshot of anyone else? Have it so easily recorded?

Please address those talking points, and don't launch into emotionally charged ranting instead. When you see how preposterous your main supporting point really is, ask yourself what other points you've bought into aren't just as silly.

I say we're in a depression because of dimwits who can't tell constructive criticism of our government from just stupid talk, and have dragged down the country with silly arguments that support their agenda. You grasp it not because of its merit, but because it supported your agenda. I think Bush and his cronies did a lot of damage to the country, but frankly if I had to choose what camp to call my own, between them and one of say Cindy "why are we in Iraq? Let's go home!" Sheehan, the intellectual void of one is not too appealing.

batvette (not verified)

at 16:19 on January 19th, 2009

It might be noted that no such order to dismantle the WTC for the purpose of asbestos mitigation exists, and is sheerly speculatory. The fact is buildings across the country are literally stuffed full of asbestos and pose no risk to anyone as long as the asbestos lays undisturbed and does not turn to particulate form (dust). Thus the motivation theory is also sheer speculation.

Additionally you allude to a jury awarding Silverstein 4.6 billion dollars in his insurance claim on the WTC properties, but don't mention he's collected very little (if any) of that to date despite being liable for the monthly lease payments on nonexistent buildings the whole time.

He may be a greedy SOB but the situation is not at all like it sounds, that he laid out $125m and got back $4.6b.

Another issue of contention in the "pull it" matter is this: His purported conversation was with the NYFD chief of operations. He'd have to have been a co-conspirator. Are you suggesting then (of course you are) that this man conspired to murder over 300 of his own people?

On that, I leave you with this link to common sense:

http://www.debunking911.com/massivect.htm

For chrissakes, man, get a grip! For this to have been the conspiracy you people claim and believe, the list of people they'd have to have paid off for a lifetime of silence would be in the hundreds of thousands! And someone would STILL have talked by now!

You may be right that 9/11 crippled our economy- but not about exactly why.

djermano

at 15:36 on April 16th, 2009

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090416/ap_on_re_us/attacks_redevelopment....

1. If building 7 was meant to be destroyed with the other buildings in the complex, why did they not "pull it" at the time of the collapse of the other buildings?

....Because building 7 was the decision makers place, and things had not materialized enough for them to pull building 7. The case in getting all the money and gold out from the S. Tower had to be completed, before they could pull building 7. People were not going into building 7 to begin with...because of explosions happening inside when the N. Tower was hit. Given that the N. Tower was furthest away how is it building 7 had explosions occuring?

Another strong point in this is the fact that the N. Tower was hit by a plane first, and then the S. Tower was hit. In fact the N.Tower did not collapse until 30 minutes after the S. Tower did. In other words the S. Tower fell first, despite being hit some time after the N. Tower was. Why would the S. Tower collapse first....because that is where all the money was inside vaults beneath the S. Tower. They had to bring down the S. Tower first to make sure exits would not be clogged from debris..This was their go ahead to get the money out... It took about 30 minutes for them to see clearly that because of the dust..if the exits were clear... When they knew this....they hit the pull switch for the N. Tower for more of a distraction. Building 7 collapsed later that afternoon....about the time it would take to get all the money out. And there is much money that is not accounted for. Guiliani made sure they left a little behind to make it appear they were the recovery agents....not the bank robbers...they really are.

.... The building was wired with charges and explosives. Larry Silverstein certainly had no willingness to keep evidence around. And like I said above....Journalist, and investigators could not enter the building because of the "explosions inside". This is the real reason why Guiliani was not in his headquarters. This building was the OEM..Office of Emergency Management, a site chosen to direct and head relief efforts in the case of an Emergency in the City.

When we look at building 4, 5, and 6 they were still standing when the dust settled. How is it they remained standing when they were situated much closer to the WTC? And so, how convenient the OEM- building 7 happened to just fall down, within its own imprint, as controlled demolitions do.

3. IF SUCH a decision was EVER to be made by anyone, would they do so within earshot of anyone else? Have it so easily recorded?

....No one knew the terminology of demolition terms at the time.....until things began to add up that an inside job was taking place. Then people began searching for more evidence..and they certainly have it on tape...of Larry Silverstein saying pull it. There is no denying that fact.

It is not far from speculation. They have it on record at the NY Port Authority having discussed the removal of the Asbestos in the WTC... And all the other buildings you are suggesting that still have asbestos inside, were not the center of attention and admiration as the WTC was. In fact knowing that such buildings had asbestos..would decrease Real Estate Values considerably, and give a direct hit in negative territory in concern to the Stock Market. But come to find out that really didn't matter anyway...because of all the Liar loans the bank swindlers were doing anyway....that ultimately crashed the banks and proved Bank assets were literally worthless.

Well I wonder why that is? Probably because the Banks and Insurance Companies loss all their money when the Financial Apparatus in the US collapsed.

He may be a greedy SOB but the situation is not at all like it sounds, that he laid out $125m and got back $4.6b. According to my above link tight wad Larry has a billion or more in his account, and that does not include the stash of money they trucked out from beneath the S. Tower.

....Do you actually think that is implausible? Even to suggest Guiliani would not be a suspect as well? They certainly did not care a bit when they wouldn't even get their firemen working radio's. Now why would they give them working radio's, so they can hear or pickup the conversations from the OEM building 7 in a planned assault on the city?

There are many things that do not add up, to include why Building 7 was not even mentioned in the 911 commission report. Why would they leave out that bit of information? It was the Headquarters, to the FBI, Secret Service, and other Government Agencies....that held records and evidence to related crimes, and upcoming trials and indictments...This included information links between Enron Corporation and the Banking Establishment..

If anyone needs a grip it is you... If Bush is the guy he claims he is..he would not have stopped or obstructed investigations. He would not have flown the binLadin family out of the country....despite the ban on air travel during that time. This tells everyone with any degree of common sense that 911 is and was an inside job.

The very convincing argument I have is not even in concern to the WTC...but the Pentagon attack. It makes no sense that only a small 5 foot hole exists. The massive planes engines, and landing gear would have made at least 3 sizable holes in the building,..yet nothing is found, except one small hole. And if it was a plane, why don't they release all the video coverage of it. The FBI collected many perimeter video tapes...and to this day they will not release the footage. They released one that was tampered with...that shows only an explosion...It does not show the plane.

Another fact is that there have been many skyscraper emergencies, to include a plane that hit the Empire State Building...yet while those other Towering Inferno's throughout the world raged out of control for much longer periods of time and they did not collapse. This is the first time in history that 3 buildings made of steel and concrete collapsed because of fire related emergencies.

And you are arguing with me about building 7? A plane did not even hit building 7, yet it collapsed.

Clearly 911 is an inside job...

Rev. Jermano

batvette

at 09:45 on May 8th, 2009

1. That makes little sense, on one hand you imply building 7 was vital as it was the decision makers place, yet then say they couldn't go inside because of explosions... and since this "pull" order is by cell phone why is bldg 7 so vital again? You mean they needed 7 for a command post for the last 8 hours, that's why they blew it in the most suspicious way 8 hours later instead of with the others? Just silly.

2. You don't refute the point, you agree with it. That point is the whole "they decided to pull it" point is nonsense as it's crazy to even suggest any such decision would ever have to be made.

3.No one knew the terminology of demolitions at the time? That dodges the point. Any such decision in an event of such heinous criminal actions, even getting past the ridiculous idea it had to be made at all, would not have been verbal and so obvious to be recordeed- I like the way you later imply they have such an iron clad professional cadre of masterminds all "140" of them will take this to their graves with their lips zipped- yet were so sloppy they just blabbed away on their cell phones as it took place.

Let's see, asbestos.... fact remains people claim there was an ORDER to REMOVE asbestos on record, it's complete BS

Larry Silverstein is not making a mint after the fact as people imply, he's had to pay rent on nonexistent space, after the insurance payments I think he's come up a bit less than breaking even.

Why does bldg 7 fall in its own footprint, try gravity, and it's not as perfect as you imply.

So are you or aren't you directly accusing the NYFD chief of orderng the murder of 321 of his own men?

Finally you give the tired "first time in history, including the empire state building" argument which is just intellectual dishonesty. The B-25 that hit the building was low on fuel and loitering near stall speed in the fog. The planes that hit the WTC were full of fuel for a coast to coast flight and moving at 550mph. Enormous, I mean huge difference in kinetic energy (knocking out structurally critical beams and fireproofing materials on remaining beams) and fire accelerant potential. As well at the time the empire state building was built, steel was less reliant on the newer processes of forging and tempering (and potential for great loss of strength through heat exposure) as it was in the era the WTC was built.

djermano

at 15:43 on April 16th, 2009

http://my.nowpublic.com/world/barry-jennings-office-emergency-management-dead-over-911-wtc-7-interview.......

also:

Most people assume that for insiders to have pulled off 9-11 would have taken so many people that someone would have talked by now.

First of all, it seems likely that there were as few as roughly 140 people who were intimately involved in the details of 9-11. On this site, you can see pictures and a short bio of the 90 people who are highly likely to be the top criminal coconspirators guilty of the planning, execution, and subsequent cover-up of the treason and mass murder that took place on 9-11.

As far as why no one has confessed, look at it this way: everyone involved in 9-11, even those only involved in the cover-up, are guilty of crimes for which they could possibly receive a death sentence if convicted. If that isn’t enough incentive to remain silent, i don’t know what is! How many times has a criminal ever confessed to a crime for which they were not even a suspect?! Criminals will only confess if they’re convinced they’ve been caught and they’re willing to make a deal for leniency if they reveal their cohorts.

Furthermore, when you read the names on the list of suspected perpetrators, you’ll see right away what a tight-knit little group it is. If there were even a shadow of a doubt about someone’s loyalty, they would not have been invited into this cabal.....

http://www.whodidit.org/index.html........

Rev. Jermano

batvette

at 09:53 on May 8th, 2009

One thing: the whole CD theory evaporates with one point: for a short time before the collapse of each tower you can clearly see visible bulging in the outer walls. This is consistent with the stated cause.

djermano

at 17:29 on May 8th, 2009

It makes lot's of sense, because if you can create explosions on the 6th floor of Building 7, that also can also cause damage in the Lobby, it would keep people from venturing into the building. Building 7 did have a basement and it certainly had doors and access to underground tunnels, that provides reachability and is a passageway to The WTC S. Tower. ..where the bank vaults were located. It took time to get the money out. What better way to keep people out of building 7 to do the robbery, by having explosions occur. No planes hit building 7. While building 7 collapsed demolition style, other buildings much closer to the WTC....building 4,5, and 6 remained standing. You are the one avoiding the truth. I don't buy the idea , the so called coincidence that the OEM headquarters simply collapsed, as collateral damage from the 911 attack

2. You don't refute the point, you agree with it. That point is the whole "they decided to pull it" point is nonsense as it's crazy to even suggest any such decision would ever have to be made.

They pulled it to destroy evidence and to create more havoc. It was needed to destroy escape routes when they took the money out.

http://grandtheftcountry.com/facts/911/seven/...

They didn't use cell phones, they used good radio's as they gave bad radio's to the firemen to use.

Let's see, asbestos.... fact remains people claim there was an ORDER to REMOVE asbestos on record, it's complete BS...

http://manhattanda.org/whatsnew/press/2004-12-16.shtml...

Not BS my friend.

Larry Silverstein is not making a mint after the fact as people imply, he's had to pay rent on nonexistent space, after the insurance payments I think he's come up a bit less than breaking even.

Why does bldg 7 fall in its own footprint, try gravity, and it's not as perfect as you imply.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8182697765360042032

So are you or aren't you directly accusing the NYFD chief of orderng the murder of 321 of his own men? ....

That is a very good question, and it very well has to do with others in the American bred Terrorist Organization.

There are many examples of fire in Skyscrapers throughout the world. In fact certainly hotter, and burned much longer and extensively over a 24 hour period. The Empire State Accident is only one of the examples. .......

The war on terror has been going on long before 911 happened. One could say it began when the USA CIA deposed Mosaddaq....in 1953 to install the Shah...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat...

Follow the incidents and we can see actually who the terrorists really are...US.

Fall of the Shah of Iran January 1978
Saddam's Iraq invaded Iran on August 10th 1980 supported by Jim Carter
Reagan sells WMD to Iraq 1980's
The attack on the Marine barracks in Lebanon was in 1983,
the hijacking of the Achille Lauro in 1985,
Iran Contra Affair trading arms for hostages. November 1985
Reagan Bombs Qadaffi April 15, 1986.
Pan Am Flight 103 Iran Air Flight 655, also known as IR655, was a civilian airliner shot down by US missiles on Sunday 3 July 1988,
Lockerbie December 21, 1988
Saddam invades Kuwait August 2, 1990,
Operation Desert Storm January 16, 1991
President Clinton becomes President January 20, 1993 – January 20, 2001
Clinton seeks 14 billion in military cuts. Headline News February 4, 1993
the bombing of the World Trade Center in February 26, 1993
On February 28, 1993 ATF raided David Koresh Branch Davidians
October 3, 1993 - Battle of Mogadishu - Ranger Units receive heavy casualties in Somalia, Blackhawk Down incident.
Israeli Terrorist Attack October 19, 1994 Tel Aviv
The Oklahoma City bombing occurred on April 19, 1995
the attacks on American installations in Saudi Arabia in 1995 and 1996,
November 14, 1995 - Budget negotiations between Congress and Clinton break down, resulting in a temporary shutdown of the federal government until November 19. A longer shutdown will last from mid-December 1995 until early January 1996.
Terror Attacks in Israel March 4, 1996
On July 17, 1996 TWA Flight 800 exploded in the evening sky off Long Island
the East Africa embassy bombings of 1998,
August, 1998 - Clinton orders cruise missile strikes on Afghanistan to hit Osama Bin Laden and a suspected chemical weapons factory in Sudan.
March 24 to June 10, 1999 - NATO bombs Kosovo and Serbia
the attack on the USS Cole in 2000......

What is really astounding and clear is the fact that we continue investigating 911 after nearly 9 years....and we still have not reached decisive conclusions. Now you would think if we had a responsible Government which the Bush Administration clearly was not....they would have made sure what happened, provided all the means to investigation, and answered all questions and were open to the process...before leading the country off to war, that would ultimately kill thousands of more people. ...And with all those unanswered questions.....this son of a bitch GW Bush takes America on a path of war and destruction..invading 2 countries... His actions, killed thousands, and destroyed American creditabilty around the world. It is also the reason to the collapse of the economy. Now what responsible person or President would make such decisions especially about war that affects millions of peoples lives....without knowing the truth and being certain of it? The only time we have conspiracies is when we stop investigations. 9 years and they are still seeking answers to the investigation, and the coverup these scoundrels have caused.

Think how convenient it is to wreck the financial system so investigations are more difficult to fund. This just does not happen. It tells us they are on the run...and they are doing everything they can to keep the lies about the War in Afghanistan going, and ramping up the continued BS of Terrorism in the world...they initially started. We will get them, no matter how long it takes...Because that is the American Way... We do not act until we know for sure, and all questions answered with proof and sound judgement. It is the epicenter of legitimacy.

Bush was terribly wrong....and guilty for the crimes he has committed....because of his lack of ability to be open, truthful, and forthcoming to questions of investigations..

And the issue we are talking about here is just about the WTC......never mind the many lies surrounding the Pentagon attack, and flight 93.

Face reality man... These people are only interested in money, and war, and false patriotism.

Rev. Jermano

batvette

at 12:08 on May 13th, 2009

1. You're using the theory of a theory as evidence a theory really occurred. Not worth a nickel in court. i.e; that they needed the tunnels to clean money out of vaults and that's why they placed the entire operation at great risk with the bizarre demolition of the building 8 hours later.

This is typical of the CT crowd, where there is a giant hole in the theory come up with bizarre concoctions with nothing to support the event whatsoever other than it fills the hole.

The fact remains that there is no plausible rationale whatsoever for them risking building 7 to be found intact rigged with explosive charges. Thus there is no possible way any decision to "pull" building 7 would be made by anyone.

2. and to create more havoc.

LOLz, that's a good one.

I saw your link. It sucked and reeks of intellectual dishonesty. And it's in a form that I can't copy and paste each stupid point it raises and wipe my backside with. Really, they call
Silversetein's disclosure on PBS a "freudian slip" which is insultingly ignorant. A freudian slip is giving away an implied truth in the middle of a lie, when it is clear he was offering his full explanation of what he witnessed. This also flies in the face of your claim everyone involved would take this to their grave- yet one of, if not the key masterminds went on PBS and just let such damning testimony "slip" out? No, nothing slipped out, the entire passage he is quoted in is a willing and conscious testimonial.

"the news said it was a sudden collapse". Oh really? that contradicts the perpetuated claim that the BBC had and announced prior knowledge!

It also describes how demolitions experts place charges strategically so they fall in their own footprints- for what reason- get this: "TO NOT DAMAGE OTHER BUILDINGS IN THE AREA, WHEN THEY FALL." (your words from your link!)

Like the WTC towers damaged building 7 when they fell. Gee, one chunk of a 1400+ foot tall building falling couldn't put a 20 story gash in the side of a nearby building, could it?

Thus your own link you provide, supports the official report entirely. WTC towers 1 and 2 had their collapse sufficiently explained in an NIST report, bur CT's claim the mere exclusion of building 7's collapse in the report is evidence to cast aspersion on the entire story. Yet in making their case they give a- a what? a Freudian slip that allows for the rationale of building 7's severe damage and subsequent collapse.

3.so iThey didn't use cell phones, they used good radio's as they gave bad radio's to the firemen to use.

Oh, even better, let's put the evidence of our crimes on unsecured airwaves! Again, not refuting the point but reinforcing it.

Okay, asbestos... thanks as bunch for the wholly irrelevant link, I won't assume but that could be out of intellectual dishonesty or topical ignorance- I'm trying not to go personal here but why was I supposed to buy that as evidence an official order ever existed to strip the WTC towers of asbestos? Are you so narrowly focused on this issue you think beating someone in an internet arguement will make the case for a 9/11 conspiracy? It won't, and proving me wrong if you even did so, won't change the facts.

Next, the falling in its own footprint..... without further explanation you expect me to watch a two hour video and find the relevant parts and form your argument for you. Please remit $250 per hour as a retainer for my services and I will consider your case! Really, that was poor debate skills.

The next two points, the avoidance of accusing the NYFD chief of making a decision to murder 321 of his own men, and the irrelevance of the B-25/ESB incident, are not only just silly dodging the points, you go on to make a wholly false claim: That the fire in the B-25 incident was hotter, longer and more extensive. It wasn't, that plane was low on fuel. And NONE of those "many examples" was hit by a 250,000 lb plane travelling 550 mph, which outright removed many supporting beams and knocked fireproofing off most if the rest in the area, and had their fire temperature raised by massive amounts of liquid fuel accelerants.

You go on to reveal you are simply engaged in this: You fit the facts to fit the policy- your own agenda. Suspicion of Bush and the American War Machine is evidence in itself, and your hatred of America attempts to build upon a string of sins, the very first of which is a lie itself:

That WE removed Mossadegh ourselves and "installed" the Shah. You shouldn't have brought that up because I've put more research into that than 99.9% of non Iranian descended Americans, and it's a lot of malarky. Yes we wanted to. Yes we gave a feeble, half hearted attempt to try. But Kermit Roosevelt took credit for something it is beyond implausible he could have accomplished, the key players knew this:

http://www.ardeshirzahedi.org/cia-iran.pdf

Mossadegh himself admitted before his death it was his disasterous policies that caused his downfall- gee do you think it would be a good idea to eject the industry technicians who ran the pumps, pipelines and refinery facilities, then tell the customer buying 90% of your country's primary source of income to go **** themselves? What do you think happened in the economic disaster in the months following that? Think the populace was content starving?

Too many fallacies in that story to count. There was no popular election, a parliamentary process with the Shah nominating him in the first place. Mossadegh even moved, as did Allende in Chile, to subvert the longstanding constitution to stay in power. And how is it we "installed" a leader who was already in power 14 years prior, who was the succession to 2500 years of uninterrupted monarchy? He never even abdicated his throne (power) and had merely physically left the country for a brief period for his safety during the unrest. The very reason Mossadegh had advanced to the position he was in was because the previous prime minister, a supporter of the Shah, had been assasinated by Islamic fundamentalists with communist ties.

Kermit Washington took credit for a job he didn't do and in the 60's, after the JFK murder and Bay of Pigs, the CIA had egg on its face and was under serious scrutiny by Congress for dissolution. The Shah of Iran was our shining story of success in the middle east at the time so they didn't hesitate to tell the world they were the heroes there. Great plan until it all goes to hell in 1978, and later this gives self loathing leftists a reason to blame America for all the world's troubles. Which begs the question, why is it that is the one story you'll eat right out of the hand from the CIA over, but everything else they say or do is evil and lies?

Because the (few that you selectively present) facts fit your agenda, that's why. Any intelligent person viewing them as a whole, and that is all I ask anyone do, can see the real truth.

djermano

at 16:22 on May 13th, 2009

No you are. by supporting Bushs ability to wage war on a theory when in fact he never has come clean in providing a legitimate investigation. You can't go off and kill people, by waging war blaming someone for those crimes....by blocking investigations...and declare investigations are complete when there are so many unanswered question still after 8 years... Just that alone is proof....of Bush covering up....his involvement .

As the rest of America was grounded from flying anywhere....Bush people authorized Binladins to leave the country. Why is that? You don't answer questions to why building 7 was left out of the 911 Commission Report...

Why did they get rid of all the evidence, steel columns. They could have stored major pieces of evidence....it doesn't matter because we have pictures as proof....but that is just one of the examples to the coverup his administration did. Why no investigation to all the call and put options that were suddenly more pronounced in concern to United and american airlines? I will tell you because the banks that qualified for the big bank bailout...were the very institutions that were involved in the trading of those Call and Put and options.

You don't want to see the links I provide...then don't bother giving me your lame bs. You have nothing to do with the real outcome of any investigation anyway...

Rev. Jermano

batvette

at 03:00 on May 14th, 2009

You don't want to see the links I provide...then don't bother giving me your lame bs. You have nothing to do with the real outcome of any investigation anyway...

Excuse me? I did in fact address the two text article links you provided, if you cannot see that the only link you may need next is www.hookedonphonics.com, as in learn to read!

I refused to sit through a 2 hour video in which you failed to detail its relevance to the argument. Given the fact that you had just offered the text article on an asbestos case which had no relevance to the point, I am not about to assume the video link is empirical proof of anything.

As for investigations, you merely want to keep seeing new ones until one agrees with your fringe position. I'd say that marginalized position is your right as an American, but as you're now packing for Afghanistan and a new life of s u c king big time, it'll be a whole new world for you. Enjoy sharia law.

Something you said about the Bin Ladens is worth pointing out as another amazingly dumb CT talking point: When do we ever arrest the family of a criminal suspect when there is no reason to believe they were involved? Most of them were not even close relatives! Some guy commits a murder, do we run around the country and arrest 300 people who are his great uncles, third cousins, brother and sister inlaws.... and hold them till we find him?

Anyway have fun in the opium poppy trade. That's the number one industry you'll be engaged in in your new land of much more noble and respectful people than those evil americans.

djermano

at 16:22 on May 14th, 2009

OK Batman: Like I said you refuse to watch, what sense is there in the communication? Don't demean me with your phonics attitude...It doesn't work to make people feel they are stupid...to accept your point of view. There are records and its a known fact that the WTC had asbestos in its structure. Why you wish to argue there is not....makes me think you are only here to argue...not accept that there are real questions that are still unanswered... Also the link I provided shows how crooked the Asbestos Company was to the NewYork Port Authority, and how they accepted bribes. You mean to tell me that has nothing to do with 911...when New York Port Authority was the past owner? You mean to say there is not corruption in the Asbestos Groups that work hard to coverup their dirty deals? It is clear to me...there is a connection.

Another part of the criminal enterprises' schemes involved a contract awarded to SSC by the Port Authority covering the maintenance and cleaning of World Trade Center artifacts after the attacks. These artifacts, which consisted of, among other things, pieces of structural steel, crushed police and fire vehicles, and the antenna from One World Trade Center, were stored at JFK's Hangar 17. Today's indictment charges that SSC stole money from the Port Authority on that contract through the inclusion of ghost employees on the payrolls. Normally, there were two to three ghost employees a day for the duration of the job, which lasted from February 2002 until February 2004. In one instance, an SSC daily labor report contained the name of a person who had been arrested for a string of burglaries of bank night deposit boxes and was in custody on the day his name appeared at Hangar 17. The amount stolen through the ghost employee scheme was $104,091.

SSC was able to get away with including ghost employees and inflating invoices because they bribed those who were charged with overseeing the work for the Port Authority. Port Authority Engineering Department employees, MARK JAKUBEK, manager of environmental field operations, and ANTHONY FONTANETTA, senior construction engineer, are accused of accepting bribes from members of The Asbestos Group.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/asbestos.html....

You know it is the question: how does the US justify its War on Terror, when frankly they have no conclusive evidence that binLadin did do it? That is my problem with this whole phoney war on terror... And then Bush shut down the investigations... It is not a question of having a new investigation, but the idea we have a real one..that is not shut down. ..Hey I did not say I was going to Afghanistan, only supporting their rights as a people in being falsely accused as being terrorist by the lying people you like to hang with.. And who are you to say any law is bad, when you people don't follow the law in the US? Torture is OK, Going to War killing Millions, over a lie. Who the hell are you?

That is my question to you? You certainly did not want to question them to find binladin? And so by not questioning..you assume binLadin did it...by waging war on him....that kills thousands of innocent people... You had no reasonable belief they were involved? So why let people leave the country immediately after 911, when Americans citizens who were not involved were banned from traveling? You make no sense Batman.

Most of them were not even close relatives! Some guy commits a murder, do we run around the country and arrest 300 people who are his great uncles, third cousins, brother and sister inlaws.... and hold them till we find him?

The point is, the US govenment banned flights for Americans, but allowed them for this family who happened to be the relative who they blame for 911.

Anyway have fun in the opium poppy trade. That's the number one industry you'll be engaged in in your new land of much more noble and respectful people than those evil americans.

Do you know what you are saying Batman? You have not a clue to who the Taliban are. In fact they are the people in Afghanistan who banned Opium production, and its sale into the market...Until madman Bush came into Afghanistan and promoted the production of Opium to farmers... You Americans may have more money....but you do not respect people at all, you are a perverted, murdering, discrimatory bunch of hooligans.

Rev. Jermano

batvette

at 19:24 on May 15th, 2009

You said I refused to look at your links and you continue to claim so. That's a blatant lie.

Asking someone to sit through a 2 hour video without you bothering to explain what portion of it supports the point in question is utterly ridiculous.

The link about the unrelated asbestos corruption case does not in any way shape nor form provide substantiation to the claim there was an order to remove the asbestos in the WTC towers nor that they were nearly worthless because of it.

No conclusive evidence Bin Laden did it... well duh there is his own confession.... there is his fatwa declaring war on America....aside from 9/11 you have a string of terrorist actions through the '90's.... disagree with its scope if you like but its legitimacy is beyond question, in roll call votes in the house and senate, the law that launched it passed with a single nay.

As for the Bin Ladens now you're getting stupid becsause your original point was so damn silly.

They flew then out because American rednecks were going to grab them and start beating the crap out of them. The night of 9/12 an arab guy in new york got knifed just for being an arab.

General and commercial aviation was grounded because we couldn't keep track of who was getting on 25,000 flights a day. We can sure keep track of who was on a chartered plane out of the country AND YOU CANNOT DETAIN DISTANT FAMILY MEMBERS FOR THE CRIME OF THEIR RELATIVE. Get a clue, most hadn't seen him in years, some never even met him. He was banished from KSA, a black sheep of the family, they wouldn't know his current whereabouts.

Thanks for the childish comment in my article. Hurts to lose, eh?

djermano

at 08:43 on May 16th, 2009

You said I refused to look at your links and you continue to claim so. That's a blatant lie.

Asking someone to sit through a 2 hour video without you bothering to explain what portion of it supports the point in question is utterly ridiculous.

Watch the entire video Batman....What's your problem? Not enough patience to understand the truth I see.

Batman there was asbestos in the WTC...What don't you understand? It was also found in the dust blown throughout the city..

No conclusive evidence Bin Laden did it... well duh there is his own confession.... there is his fatwa declaring war on America....You know those were fake videos, one video was a guy the CIA tried to pass off as binLadin and it wasn't him...totally fake; and binladin in an early confession said he did not do it. What do you think someone will say, after people started bombing them? Nice words afterwards, or they won't fight back?

aside from 9/11 you have a string of terrorist actions through the '90's.... disagree with its scope if you like but its legitimacy is beyond question, in roll call votes in the house and senate, the law that launched it passed with a single nay.

Let's look at them Batman. The first is Saddam...Let's conclude that Saddam tried to reclaim Kuwait because of what Reagan and Robert Gates did giving arms to Iran. Pretty simple logic here. America first supports Saddam with Military Equipment and WMD to fight Iran....And then Reagan who was suppose to be on good terms with Iran because he secured the release of hostages at the end of Jimmy Carter's term, then concocted a way to sell arms to Iran without telling Congress and the Senate and divert profits for arms sales to fund the Contra Rebels in Nicaragua. Think maybe Saddam had a real beef about that? Think maybe the US caused this reaction of war? Think that this caused Saddam to ultimately get really pissed because so many of his men died in the War the US was supporting him to fight against Iran, and now the US supplies arms to his enemy. I would be as furious. And these toilet-seats they call men who have jobs such as the Secretary of Defense...Robert Gates is still injecting his poison around the world...with his lies, and murdering campaign to expand into Afghanistan. They do nothing to this SOB. Obama hires him on to be his SOD...talk about a ridiculous mob of gangsters they call a government.

And really who gives a rats tail what the Senate and Congress do....when they are duplicit in committing the crimes and letting Presidents get off for their blunders. They are as guilty....They should all be impeached. They are as criminal as the President..... I also believe the 1 st bombing in the WTC was a CIA hit job as well, in response to Clintons Military budget cuts. And McVeigh was doing work for the skull and bones organization...a nazi group as well....to create terror with the same agenda to push the Congress and Senate fear button to get them to increase spending for the military....but that didn't work, so they tried again with 911.

Saddam invades Kuwait August 2, 1990,
Operation Desert Storm January 16, 1991
President Clinton becomes President January 20, 1993 – January 20, 2001
Clinton seeks 14 billion in military cuts. Headline News February 4, 1993
the bombing of the World Trade Center in February 26, 1993
On February 28, 1993 ATF raided David Koresh Branch Davidians
October 3, 1993 - Battle of Mogadishu - Ranger Units receive heavy casualties in Somalia, Blackhawk Down incident.
Israeli Terrorist Attack October 19, 1994 Tel Aviv
The Oklahoma City bombing occurred on April 19, 1995
the attacks on American installations in Saudi Arabia in 1995 and 1996,
November 14, 1995 - Budget negotiations between Congress and Clinton break down, resulting in a temporary shutdown of the federal government until November 19. A longer shutdown will last from mid-December 1995 until early January 1996.
Terror Attacks in Israel March 4, 1996
On July 17, 1996 TWA Flight 800 exploded in the evening sky off Long Island
the East Africa embassy bombings of 1998,
August, 1998 - Clinton orders cruise missile strikes on Afghanistan to hit Osama Bin Laden and a suspected chemical weapons factory in Sudan.
March 24 to June 10, 1999 - NATO bombs Kosovo and Serbia

As for the Bin Ladens now you're getting stupid becsause your original point was so damn silly. ....No you are; because you don't know what to say..don't play smartguy with me beachbum.

They flew then out because American rednecks were going to grab them and start beating the crap out of them. The night of 9/12 an arab guy in new york got knifed just for being an arab.

.....Well isn't that amazing...so how did they know Arabs did it on that September day on the 11th? How could anyone possibly know the day it happened? Well they spread the news quicker than seconds clicking on a clock...that binLadin did it. They knew he did it before the first tower hit the ground. It is 8 years after the fact now...and we still don't have a real investigation or answers to who did 911, but we sure have a lot of dead bodies lying around and occupy 2 more countries we were not in before, as a result....to simply wage a war with no conclusive evidence binLadin did it, is beyond the law, and an egregious violation of duty, law, and responsibility to the people.

Rather convenient right....so now they have to allow the binLandins to immediately leave the country.. per your nonsense. Maybe you are one of the planners of this...murder to fellow Americans? Seems plausible, you California thugs have always had an axe to grind with New Yorkers when it came to Wall Street and how the money and financial markets are controlled in the East and not in your gang-bang neighborhood.

Well if you ground all planes and you let only one fly....I guess it is pretty easy to watch them get away... You can't detain distant family members, but you can grab anyone off the street and torture them in any rendition location and lock them away in Guantanemo without a trial for years...to not ever getting one....and you are telling me what they do and don't do? You are quite the Shamrock Leprechaun aren't you.

Thanks for the childish comment in my article. Hurts to lose, eh?

Hey thanks for all your gummy bear remarks here as well Batman... Yeah I lost..you are right....over 3,000 good fellow americans, over 5,000 US soldiers, over a million innocent..do you know what innocent means Batman? Little Children arms and legs blown off, mothers, and grandparents wiped out....and the husbands coming to the door to defend their families....well we know they are the terrorists....and the body count is still rising as our new Liar in Chief Harlot Obomb Ma' want's to keep the killing fields gushing in blood in Afghanistan, and Pakistan..... Yeah I sure did lose...Dear God I am not going to see relief from my suffering until justice is brought to America...somehow...someway.

Rev. Jermano

batvette

at 03:34 on May 22nd, 2009

Maybe you are one of the planners of this...murder to fellow Americans? Seems plausible, you California thugs have always had an axe to grind with New Yorkers when it came to Wall Street and how the money and financial markets are controlled in the East and not in your gang-bang neighborhood.

That was special. Thank goodness for the internet, a place where even the delusionally marginalized can have a voice. Have a nice day, Mr. Taliban.

djermano

at 07:03 on May 22nd, 2009

Thanks Batman....Any one who supports pro war politicians to wage war around the world without solid accurate evidence that the accused did do it....are supporters of murder of innocent people. When they refuse to answer questions and take the chip off their shoulder and be honest with the American people....to the many unanswered questions of 911..tells me they and you are the delusionally marginalized. .. Long Live the Taliban wherever they may be...

Better look under your bed tonight Batman.

Rev. Jermano

batvette

at 11:54 on May 22nd, 2009

Your rhetoric about "honesty" and "solid accurate evidence" might be a little less laughable for its blatant hypocrisy if you hadn't been caught in this very article pushing false claims to support your agenda (claiming an order existed to remove the asbestos from the towers, rendering them condemned and worthless) and even further continuing to claim your "evidence" of corruption by an asbestos contractor was the same as substantiating that bogus claim.

It is a display of extremely immature personal interaction skills when the most obvious of falsehoods is called out and you cannot be big about it and concede you were mistaken and move on, instead insulting both of our intelligence that your link somehow proved that.

Never mind the absurdity of demanding that proof is shown of OBL's complicity in 9/11, all but asserting his complete innocence- THEN blasting the Bush administration for not jailing the entire bin laden extended family after the event. That is as contradictory of criticism as can be, but you aren't thinking of it together, each is a way to attack someone so you say it.

You're not alone, I'll give you that. It's the "say anything" mentality that many have, and you don't see that you only set your purported focus of concern's cause back instead of forward with the tactics. I am a reasonable person. I do not support the waging of unnecessary wars. I know we are not responsible for one million Iraqi deaths, I know that decades of tyranny and socially backward regional rule created a brutal civilization that the world ignored because Saddam's totalitarian government locked out the world press. Sorting it out is not going to be pretty or quick, but blaming us is like blaming the cops for destroying a family when you catch the parents molesting their children. Ugly as it is you had to stop it.

You'll cast the blame in the Persian Gulf as far back as Reagan to attach the most flimsy of rationale for the bloodshed- who before that, and before that? Who killed people during the crusades, America? And when you're done bashing those evil Christians, go after those f*u*c*king Romans and the Greeks before them.

War has existed since the first two men had a dispute, it will exist after you and I are dead and buried. Tis noble to work for decreasing its severity or the ease in which it begins, but make no mistake, it is the highest of arrogance and naivity to insist it all cease immediately just because this generation of hundreds, is the one you were born in and you wish it that way.

I know a little about the sobering thoughts one may have about war. I've never taken a life by my hand, but was a technician on combat aircraft on the USS Coral Sea from '79-83, when Reagan was provoking a Soviet response and our aircraft intercepted the Soviet's nuclear armed bombers as they probed the pacific coast air defenses. I ate on the mess decks just a few feet from nuclear weapons as they moved them, accompanied by the armed Marine detail, down to the storage decks below by elevator. I worked on the planes that would carry them if ordered to. If provoked, the Soviets would have hit our carrier group first. I enlisted partly because of 3+ years of Carter economic disasters, partly because I just hated that SOB Ayatollah Khomeini and wanted to be part of the war that exterminated him and his ilk. Over the years meeting a few Iranians mellowed me out and I am glad that did not happen. I regretted my youthful anger, this also fueled my desire to study what happened in 1953 and 1979, and it is a fact that the left, in using our actions and distorting our actual role, has not helped the Iranians a bit- by blaming America for all its troubles they have a victim card and will not face up to responsibility for their own internal political mess.

Here is a fallacy of your philosophy: The earth, at 6.5 billion, is near capacity. Imagine eliminating all wars 100 years ago. The resulting overpopulation burden would now see unimaginable misery across the globe by disease, dysentary, hunger- how do you want to go out- weak from hunger, unable to control your bowels, dying in a ditch in some overpopulated metropolis fighting off the human masses from cannibalizing your flesh before the maggots do- or in battle with comrades fighting for what you believed in, even if your view of that cause were slanted?

Avoidance of war should never be the ultimate goal in itself. Ever.

You may be surprised to hear this but I respect those 19 hijackers. They weren't bums, they were the doers, the achievers of their places of birth. They went out and took action on their beliefs. However if you told me tommorrow the PNAC paid Bin Laden to put them up to it, I would not be a bit surprised.

Just don't sell me a bull**** badly concocted scheme about controlled demolitions with more holes in it than swiss cheese, and more dishonesty presenting in it than they might have had executing it.

djermano

at 17:40 on May 22nd, 2009

Come on Batman....you had two hours to write this long essay, and not enough time to watch or see the links I provided. What is your beef? You can't answer questions that I raise, yet you come to the conclusion I am delusional. There are more than many people who do not believe 911 was done by binLadin...so take a breath....It is not me, it is the truth. Go talk to Alex at InfoWars.com, or truth seekers to 911, or the mulitude of others..But then I see you don't have the time to do that. You only are interested in protecting your money that you made from the War? I don't know your closed mind to not seeing the truth....not truthfully asking yourself how Building 7 collapsed, later that day, and not mentioned in the 911 Commission Report...Or seeing that Asbestos was used in the WTC. It is a fact....

And here is your intellectual dishonesty when you now claim I said binLadin family should have been put in jail. I never said that and you my friend know it.

You are responsible for supporting a million deaths, because you refuse to acknowledge the questions to 911. The Bush Administration refused to release Video tapes of the crash into the Pentagon, nor to tell us the name of the soldier who was on duty, who asked Cheney does the order still stand? Meaning the stand-down order.

Look Batman...you are supporting Bush because he went to War against Saddam because you claim he was backward....yet say nothing about the millions of dollars of WMD sold to him from the US under Reagan. Why would the US sell such technology and weapons systems to a backward guy ? You know Reagan also messed up by following the advice from Robert Gates to sell weapons to Iran during the Iran Contra scandal. Why would the US sell weapons to Saddam who then encouraged him to fight Iran, and then go and sell weapons to Iran to fight Iraq? Talk about big time betrayal....It would make me want to reclaim Kuwait as well. I don't blame Saddam...I blame the US. Under Reagan they only cared about Weapons sales....and not the political fall-out from the two countries they sold them too..Selling Weapons to Iraq and Iran who are enemies....and see who they blame, certainly rests on America's lap.

OK Batman I am impressed with your being so close to touch a nuclear weapon..you know that makes you an expert? Well I use to guard them in Little Rock... SAC command, and I am no expert....only knowing when I see a dead fish...it stinks..

And I just do not buy your reasons to accept War as inevitable because of over population. That is paranoia at its finest. So why do we have a Space Program....and researching ways to make Mars habitable? Maybe it is a destiny that the more people the better.....for supporting our ventures into the vast Universe. I find that positive not negative.

You know Batman I am not your enemy....and I do work hard to avoid war...Because war does not solve issues. As your historical account proves....you accept War....but it need not be that way. Humans have brains knowing that war is negative...and destroys...not only lives, but economies, resources, and the environment..Why does mankind not learn that it benefits no one to wage war....not even the military establishment...? You follow a lie....because you don't really know anything except to fight. But there is hope mankind will learn and be more supportive to each other and everyones nation.

You don't know that many of the so called hijackers are still alive?

Take Care Batman....nice talking to you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm...

http://www.rense.com/general29/obls.htm....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/1341391/Revealed-the-men-with-stolen-identities.html....

http://www.mesotheliomasos.com/jobsitesWTC.php...

http://www.asbestos.com/world-trade-center/asbestos.php...

http://www.nyenvirolaw.org/PDF/Jenkins-12-3-01-WTCasbestos.pdf...

Rev. Jermano

djermano

at 16:28 on May 13th, 2009

Some people will cast Judas as a hero, because he brought to life Jesus and his resurrection; while discounting that the disciples who were identified with Jesus denied they knew him....Fear for their own lives, when Judas made money. Were they liars, or not part of the Pharasee's payoff? Certainly knowing Jesus is suppose to mean making money, or denying him to make him as God's Son. I prefer to accept the latter....

Which leads to the struggle in becoming a Taliban. Do I accept the American philosophy that a guy in a poor country had anything to do with a plan to crash 4 airliners into America's psych? And deny the huge pile of evidence that 911 was an inside job? Knowing full well Bush has closed down the investigation, funded a phoney 911 Commission Report, refuses to answer questions about building 7 (the OEM) that miraculously collapsed later in the day...when not even hit by a plane, and was further away from other building that remained standing while also conveniently not even mention building 7's collapse in the 911 Commission Report.

Then I am to believe that the banks failed, because of crooked workers who can't pay their mortgages....while they gave bailout money to bank CEO's while also giving them the power to foreclose on homes.

Then I am to accept that the US killed 1 million innocent Iraqi people....when Bush admits Saddam did not do 911.

Then I am to accept Obama who says he will end the war, and yet he is ramping up the war in Afghanistan, putting pressure on Pakistan to kill innocent people who are defending themselves who happen to be Taliban?

Then the money issue comes flying in my face...well America has all the money..I just can not go against the American Government, big military establishment....besides that is why we have voted for our Congress people, and Senators to find answers...but the banks have failed..and there is no money to conduct investigations, and an unwilling President to make rational decisions...

Oh my.... more and more up against the wall is all I come up with.

And so I am to believe that my Congress people really represent me...when they have failed me for all these years? There comes the point do I do the unthinkable?

Join the Taliban? They have no money, like they do in the US. Yet they are the manufactured bad guys the US government has painted into our minds....but the evidence doesn't show them to be the bad guys.

Do I go on supporting the money Judas got, or deny I know Jesus and really go to him in Mountains? Do I support the State or Religion? Afterall America says they do not discriminate against Religion..but they certainly do with our Muslim brothers....by invading their homeland in Afghanistan. Jesus did not come with the intent or design of military establishments....and yet the US is killing our people...to support a lie about 911.

Start the ATF? American Taliban Federation...and be the minutemen that they are in fighting the American Military machine. Go to Vietnam and ask the North Vietnam Miltiary advisors to help manufacture weapons to move up through Laos, and Cambodia, and Myamar to help out our Taliban brothers in Afhganistan.

Americans unite against the criminals in the US. Bush has manufactured this War on Terror...
We know Jesus rose from Judas, and Judas hung in his tree....are we to remain in the US as Judas hung in a tree? Or follow Jesus, follow Allah, follow the life.....which is to deny Jesus, or follow death which is the money hanging in the tree in the US.

Struggle to be a Taliban...or die to be an American? I know I have become a Taliban. Long Live Allah... long live the Taliban...

Rev. Jermano

batvette

at 04:01 on May 23rd, 2009

You've got to be the worst liar on this site.

Reagan sold Iraq WMD? Maybe he GAVE them your BRAIN .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Program_development_1960s_-_1980s

Your link about the hijackers being alive? go to the update link on the bottom.

You teach? really? what, baboons?

djermano

at 07:52 on May 23rd, 2009

Thanks Batman nothing like sticking your own foot in your mouth: This is from your link proving my point.... Who are you man?

The United States exported over $500 million of dual use exports to Iraq that were approved by the Commerce department. Among them were advanced computers, some of which were used in Iraq's nuclear program.[25] The non-profit American Type Culture Collection and the Centers for Disease Control sold or sent biological samples to Iraq under Saddam Hussein up until 1989, which Iraq claimed it needed for medical research. These materials included anthrax, West Nile virus and botulism, as well as Brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene. Some of these materials were used for Iraq's biological weapons research program, while others were used for vaccine development.[26] For example, the Iraqi military settled on the American Type Culture Collection strain 14578 as the exclusive anthrax strain for use as a biological weapon, according to Charles Duelfer.[27]...

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/arming_iraq.php...

http://www.counterpunch.org/boles1010.html...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair....

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0525-04.htm...

http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1991/C231.html....

What do you want Batman? We will go on endlessly arguing...That is the American way...and frankly I realize I am not an American anymore... So I will be waiting for your bombs...and war machine.

Rev. Jermano

batvette

at 17:04 on May 23rd, 2009

The link proves YOUR point?

Oh, I'm sorry, where does it say this?

yet say nothing about the millions of dollars of WMD sold to him from the US under Reagan.

Let me spell it out for you:

If "dual use exports" are WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION then we found millions of tons of WMD after the invasion of Iraq. WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION are in every home in America. And this, from your own stupid first link:

April, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas. [7]

Great! You know what that was?

Thiodiglycol has both polar and nonpolar solvent properties. It is used as a solvent in a variety of applications ranging from dyeing textiles to inks in some ballpoint pens. In chemical synthesis, it is used as a building block for protection products, dispersants, fibers, plasticizers, rubber accelerators, pesticides, dyes, and various other organic chemicals. In the manufacture of polymers, it is used as a chain transfer agent. As an antioxidant, it is used as an additive in lubricants.

The fact you chose to ignore about my wiki link is that AT NO TIME. EVER. DID THE US FURNISH SADDAM HUSSEIN WITH ACTUAL WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, YET LONG BEFORE THAT HALF A DOZEN NATIONS DID ALONG WITH THE FACTORIES AND TECHNICAL EXPERTISE TO CONTINUE THEIR PRODUCTION. Furthermore not one of the dual use biological strains we did furnish was EVER used in a weaponized form by Saddam on anyone. They were all claimed by Iraq for legitimate use.

YOUR CLAIM, AS I JUST PROVED, REMAINS A LIE.

Furthermore why did you ignore that your claim about the hijackers were alive was a ie? You're SUCH the humanitarian bull****ter!

djermano

at 07:25 on May 23rd, 2009

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/may2009/pers-m22.shtml...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/may2009/econ-m22.shtml...

Rev. Jermano

batvette

at 17:13 on May 23rd, 2009

As for Obama, his own position is riven by deep and insoluble political contradictions. His plea to observe constitutional norms is completely undermined by the fact that his administration has accepted without question the basic premises and foundations of the foreign policy of the Bush administration—that is, that the United States is waging a desperate struggle against “terror.”

While opposing certain actions of the Bush administration, Obama is careful to avoid challenging the central political lie out of which all its crimes developed.

“Al Qaeda is actively planning to attack us again,” Obama declared in the same speech on Thursday. “We know that this threat will be with us for a long time, and that we must use all elements of our power to defeat it.” Indeed, Obama claimed, it was his administration that was carrying out this battle most consistently by taking “the fight to the extremists who attacked us on 9/11 in Afghanistan and Pakistan.”

djermano

at 16:22 on May 24th, 2009

YOUR CLAIM, AS I JUST PROVED, REMAINS A LIE.

Furthermore why did you ignore that my claim about the hijackers were alive ? You're SUCH the humanitarian bull****ter!

Obama is a liar.as you are liar... Bush people did 911...and using the blame game to wage war. ..Read again..

Among them were advanced computers, some of which were used in Iraq's nuclear program.[25] The non-profit American Type Culture Collection and the Centers for Disease Control sold or sent biological samples to Iraq under Saddam Hussein up until 1989, which Iraq claimed it needed for medical research. These materials included anthrax, West Nile virus and botulism, as well as Brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene.

http://www.gulli.com/news/world-trade-center-destruction-2009-05-24/.....

Rev. Jermano

batvette

at 23:44 on May 24th, 2009

where does it say those strains were weaponized? It does not because they were not.

where did Saddam get the weapons of mass destruction he used on the Iranians?

on the Kurds?

Not from the US.

Did Saddam EVER get any WEAPONS of MASS DESTRUCTION from the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

NO HE DID NOT. EVER.

If culture strains are WMD then you better tell all your fellow Bush critics that Saddam had WMD and we found WMD all over Iraq after the invasion. Because we found plenty of just that.

You're an ignoramus and a partisan hack. Are you going to claim botulism strains have no research value? That nobody has reason to research West Nile Virus?

And you are also a plagurist. Most of your article here was stolen in its entirety from this author:

http://www.heartcom.org/LuckyLarry.htm

and this has been brought to the attention of nowpublic's administrators. really- you took the lucky larry story, and his commentary on it, wholesale, and included it here unchanged and called it your work! people like you who go to the most obscene levels of dishonesty to push their political agenda- particularly in this case one which is based on a complaint those you criticize are dishonest politicians-really are laughable for not seeing the futility of your tactics.

djermano

at 03:37 on May 25th, 2009

Hey Batman I always include links to story information....I really follow the honesty trail.

And I sure don't know what you are all riled up about...its your own link...you are upset about...because you never read my links or have time to read....

http://www.counterpunch.org/dixon06172004.html...

I have the very same link as this article about Larry Siverstein. as well Batman...so don't be so disgruntled because I have proved you to being lying.

http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/750....

my link is the same as his...

www.whatreallyhappened.com/silverstein

Rev. Jermano

batvette

at 19:33 on May 26th, 2009

Thanks for wasting more of my time. No wonder that article is on counterpunch and not a legitimate media outlet, it never delivered its claim in the title. It describes dual use materiels as I have repeatedly offered information about. Do you understand the difference? Chlorine Bleach, found in any home in America, is made from the same chemical that is needed to make certain chemical weapons. Does this mean we all have WMD in our homes? No. If Iraq needs the chemical, and someone sells it to them, did they sell them WMD? NO.

The article dismisses itself anyway, the author is a fool:

It is believed that US-supplied choppers were used in the 1988 chemical attack on the Kurdish village of Halabja, which killed 5000 people.

false, if he is implying the aircraft used to deploy the WMD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

It was Migs and Mirage aircraft dropping bombs. Why get highly deadly residue all over your airframe by using helicopter spraying, when bombs do the job better?