Ontario to offer $10,000 electric car incentive

by albertacowpoke | July 15, 2009 at 05:07 am

689 views | 81 Recommendations | 31 comments

Green will be the flavour in the Province of Ontario today, when Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty will announce a plan to offer up to $10,000 in incentives for the purchase of Electric cars.

This is an attempt to make the environmentally friendly cars more accessible to the average consumer and prop up the ailing Ontario auto industry.

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty is expected to make the announcement at a Chevy dealership to day.

General Motors hybrid-electric Chevrolet Volt is expected to hit the roads next year, but will cost as much as $40,000 and would be more affordable with the rebate.

Ontario's government will announce a plan Wednesday to offer purchasers of electric cars incentives of up to $10,000 in a bid to make the environmentally-friendly vehicles more accessible to the average consumer.

The plan is part of the province's attempts to boost the struggling auto sector and position itself at the forefront of the emerging technology, sources told The Canadian Press.

"It's clear that cars are moving in this direction," a government source said.

"Ontario wants to lead. We think that incentives to make it easier to buy and drive electric cars mean more jobs for Ontario workers, and it's good for our environment."

Premier Dalton McGuinty will make the announcement Wednesday at a Chevrolet dealership in Toronto, along with Transportation Minister Jim Bradley

General Motors Co.'s hybrid-electric Chevrolet Volt is expected to hit the roads next year, but will cost as much as $40,000 and would be more affordable with the rebate.

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Jordan Yerman

at 06:21 on July 15th, 2009

The trick is in convincing electric-car buyers that an infrastructure exists to support their new vehicles. While most urban drives are fairly short, eventually one will run out of juice while far from home.

albertacowpoke

at 06:38 on July 15th, 2009

That's part of it. My other concern is how well these batteries perform in Alberta winters when the temperature goes to 40 below often. One other concern would be what happens to expired batteries.

Alberta's electric power is produced by coal. That puts into question where the advantage is to the environment.

So while you need the infrastructure, you need batteries that stand up to our cold winters, a disposal plan and reassurance that widespread use can be handled by today's power grid.

unityblue

at 22:15 on July 15th, 2009

Extensive studies show that even with the dirtiest of sources such as coal, electric vehicles still outperform in terms of cost, efficiency, and low emissions:
http://www.ecogeek.org/automobiles/1569

Ni-MH batteries (used in today's Hybrids) have already come down considerably in cost, proven themselves in tough climates, and are being recycled en masse (though classified as toxic).

Li-Ion batteries (and variants such as Li-Poly) are not classified as toxic, and are the battery of choice for most electric vehicles of present and near future. They have been around in forms for years, continually improving, and are being rigorously tested for tough climates.

Some people always seem to be touting Hydrogen. There is a pipe dream that has been around for longer than I have been alive. Where does it come from? Cleanest source is electricity, but loses 60-70% of the energy in electrolysis right off the bat. An alternative is reformation, which loses 30-50% right off the bat. Another alternative is as an industrial waste product. Vancouver has one of the biggest sources of waste Hydrogen (still needs processing) in North America, but still might only get 100,000 cars taken care of! How is it stored? The best tanks only hold enough for ~150km, and it continually evaporates when not in use!! How is it used? The best Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology I've heard of wastes about 50-60% in converting hydrogen back into the usable energy of choice: electricity!! So why go thru all the rig-a-ma-role of using hydrogen in the first place?! I know a good number of ex-hydrogen-company employees that have found meaningful and useful work elsewhere.

If you want to know how useless hydrogen fuel cells will be in tough climates, check out Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle#Fuel_cell

albertacowpoke

at 02:58 on July 16th, 2009

Thanks very much for this info unityblue.

Paschen

at 09:04 on July 15th, 2009

I believe it when I see it. This is badly though out.

The problem is the power production here, Batteries are toxic with only 5 year life span. Power has to be produced with some thing and if that some thing is Polluting then it is no use. Hydrogen Powered cars are the anther here and not Electric. Why Europe and Japan are moving towards Hydrogen with BMW and Honda already having a full line of cars powered by Hydrogen. Benz, VW and Toyota have announced to follow suit by 2015 with Hydrogen. The EU has build two new mega Hydrogen plants on the Mediterranean and tree more are to follow.

albertacowpoke

at 09:32 on July 15th, 2009

Those are some of my concerns with battery powered cars as well, especially here in Alberta, where coal is used to generate power. During extreme heat (our version) and extreme cold the power grid is already operating at capacity.

Babel-Fish

at 19:35 on July 15th, 2009

The are new ways to store electric at the moment Australians are well a head in this technology. But to my mind battery power is a better option than fossil fuel and at a guess there are methods to recycle batteries and handle the toxic problem. I am not sure if the electric storage Australian scientist have been experimenting with is a toxic problem?

This move by the Canadian government is a good step forward to take reliance of of fossil fuels of which do not only pollute our atmosphere but the brains of the people in power and the greedy oil and gas companies. The end of the global chess oil wars is possibly in sight..

I agree that Hydrogen is a better step forward and will eventually take over completely it does also make sense as this planet has a very, very, large source of hydrogen as water is abundant because of our large oceans.

I really do not think hybrid powered cars are the way forward as they still produce the pollution and still use the dreaded fossil fuels that need to be cut out all together.

Just lets get our selves off the fossil fuel fix at present seems a good solution each method used to achieve that will be seen by some as having problems, but those problems are less an evil than the pollutant's we buy now that we pollute our planet in the sake of the need of energy and power. Hybrid cars are not the best step forward as fossil fuels even limited still pollute and also are the reason behind many of the small wars to secure their source and the profits made from them.

albertacowpoke

at 19:44 on July 15th, 2009

Babel the problem in Alberta, at least, is how electric power is generated. Also the viability of a battery powered car in our extreme winter conditions. You have to live here to appreciate our winters. The power grid is already operating at its capacity. Let's make sure we don't create another dynasaur. California, as an example, deals with power brown outs now.

The human race is good at bandaid solutions, unfortunately most of them come back to bite us in the butt much later.

Like any solution, we need to weight the pros and cons. In jusrisdictions, like Ontario, Quebec and British Columbia, battery operated cars may well be viable.

My concern is also the distance Canadians in rural areas have to travel from point A to point B. Breakdowns in winter in the middle of nowhere are not pleasant. I've been there.

Babel-Fish

at 20:29 on July 15th, 2009

Yep see the problem, this is also going to be the case in many countries with very cold climates, its obvious of course that hydrogen driven cars can only be the real solution. I have lived in Canada in the winter and no I would not wished to be stranded and end up as a frozen human lollipop because of an electric power problem on my mode of transport.

See the sense in what your saying.

Matty-in-the-N.S. (not verified)

at 07:56 on July 24th, 2009

Im concerned that people are hovering over this idea of turning everything over to hydrogen cell. the fact of the matter is that hydrogen (or water) is not a renewable source. Thus it could prove to be a poor alternative to fossil fuels. We cant just swap from gas to water and think we are saved, try to imagine just how big of an impact this could have on our aquatic life. Granted our world is covered mostley in water, but how long would it take to drop the bay of fundy a foot? or even an inch?. Electricity can be produced from geothermal, if any of you have seen the movies Zeitgeist than you already know that we have the technology to produce 4000 zetajules of power in one year, While the globe uses around .5 or 1/2 of a zetajule of power in one year. and thats just geothermal, not to mention tidal power, wind and lets not forget about our oldest and greatest power source of all the sun.

that being said we can have electricity in abundance with little to no damage to the planet, the use of coal to produce electricity was crucial to the industrial age, no question. BUT WE ARE PAST THAT ARE WE NOT?..

sara star

at 08:46 on July 15th, 2009

That is still too much!

Barbara McPherson

at 10:12 on July 15th, 2009

This sounds more like a scheme to save auto workers' jobs than a plan to save the environment. As some of you have already pointed out, how does the electricity get produced -- coal, water, nuclear? The batteries required to power these cars have more air miles on them than a rock star. Where are the metals mined and refined? The inconvenient truth is people have to stop buzzing around in private cars whenever they want to. More effective to save the environment is to ration the fuel. That would cut down on unnecessary trips!

albertacowpoke

at 10:54 on July 15th, 2009

I tend to agree with this Barbara.

Concerned Resident of Honduras

at 11:16 on July 15th, 2009

I understand your concerns about the batteries but if properly disposed of at your local dump they are sold to recycling plants who in turn neturalize the acid and recycle 90% of the lead,there is a good site for resourses for recycling http://www.dowhatyoucan.ca/ As far as where the power comes from most of ontario's power is generated by nuclear and hydro electric. I do have to agree I think the main reason for the incentives is to prop up the car manufactures. But as the saying goes every little bit helps !I also agree that Hydrogen is the way to go but as always North American auto makers are behind 5 to 10 years compared to others outside the country. As far as the extra strain on the power grid if you are really wanting to go green then set up a small wind and solar system just for your car!! This wayyou can really stick it to the oil companies who are the real driving force behind the kinds of cars that are being produced!!

albertacowpoke

at 12:06 on July 15th, 2009

Thanks you for your comments. You make some good points. I would think that North American car makers would now vigorously compete against foreign makers and be innovative.

Amy Judd

at 11:32 on July 15th, 2009

It's ambitious for sure and at this point I'm not sure how possible. I would buy an electric car if I knew that there were going to be sufficient charging stations and ways to take care of it.

Concerned Resident of Honduras

at 13:13 on July 15th, 2009

Amy I just read about a McDonalds in Cary,NC that will be installing a charging station at thier location but I think that there will be money to be made so the old supply and demand theory applies here. Kind of like the ATM's that are everywhere now! Though I think there are great posibilities for up start companies in a charge station business. Like the remote pay systems in public garages there could also be specific parking spaces for electric cars with the same pay system but you would pay for however many hours or minutes before hand! Boy did I just come up with a new business.........nah I couldn't be the first to think of it lol !! What about get the companies people work for to spring for the original purchase of the charge station so they show they are being enviromentaly friendly to the comunity they are base in. Wow there are so many posibilities now that I have thoght about it for a few minutes.

albertacowpoke

at 12:08 on July 15th, 2009

Thanks very much Amy. Charge stations are certainly a problem. Your article on the city of Vancouver initiative seems to be on the right track though.

marianmo

at 13:49 on July 15th, 2009

interesting!!!!!

158

at 14:03 on July 15th, 2009

This is a good idea and a good start but more needs to be done, especially with charging stations.

albertacowpoke

at 14:07 on July 15th, 2009

Yes I think there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

politisite

at 20:29 on July 15th, 2009

I have an electric car... it runs on a couple of AA batteries. How is the electric generated in Ontario? Is it Coal, Oil or another fuel? I am just wondering how much fuel it takes to charge an electric car. I like the idea and hope that full electric vehicles are in our future. I hate the smell of oil burning cars.. Yuck

albertacowpoke

at 20:34 on July 15th, 2009

Ontario uses water as does BC and Quebec. Alberta uses coal.

Barry Artiste

at 10:58 on July 16th, 2009

Ah yes, electric cars will be littered all over HWY 401 beginning around January. As well as any electric tow trucks if they have those as well. Vancouver on the other hand may be okay for electric cars as we do not really have snow or minus 30 degree weather,. What works in some climates will be a disaster for other regions. So it is nice Dalton fires out the political Brownie Points knowing full well there will be few takers, unless some have a winter beater for the winter.

He may as well said he would pay for Buggy Whips to Ontarians if they buy a Horse and Buggy!

albertacowpoke

at 11:08 on July 16th, 2009

I could open up a horse dealership in downtown Toronto:) Manufactured in Alberta. Feeds on Grass in the summer, needs hay in winter. 5 gallons of water a day.

Barry Artiste

at 18:40 on July 16th, 2009

Sounds like a plan Karl, and no EMF emissions like the electric cars either

albertacowpoke

at 18:44 on July 16th, 2009

Thought you might like that Barry. There will be a slight impact on the environment for by making hay. Manure can be picked up and used as fertilizer.

Concerned Resident of Honduras

at 20:45 on July 16th, 2009

Even better the manure can power your barbeque, just saw it a few days ago on some eco show on TV ! You can cook up some of those cows you poke LOL!! I'll take mine medium rare, tenderloin, it'a hard to get good beef down here nobody ages it.