Op-Ed : Where 'Those Methods' Lead

by Karen Hatter | April 25, 2009 at 07:54 am
782 views | 64 Recommendations | 15 comments

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INDICTED:  VP Chaney and former Attorney General Gonzales

INDICTED: VP Chaney and former Attorney General Gonzales

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All during the decisions leading up to and after the release of documents requested under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) concerning documents, currently referred to as the 'torture memos', memos revealing dialog between the United States Department of Justice (DOJ)  and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), "those methods"  have been discussed in public forums, alluded to by the Bush administration as "enhanced interrogation techniques" however, called by many advisers, including those within the U.S. military, torture. An excerpt from the article:


"High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used," Blair wrote in the memo. But in a separate statement, he added that "there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means." Yes, people break under torture and tell what they know, along with what they don't know and what they think their torturers want to hear. But there is no way to be certain that the valuable information wouldn't have been extracted through traditional -- and legal -- methods of interrogation. Even if experts have differing views about torture's effectiveness, there is one point on which they cannot disagree: It violates U.S. and international law.

Click here to read an article written by Pulitzer Prize winner Eugene Robinson, contributor at the Washington Post.

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0
Fred Miller

That Robinson article was a great read, Karen - and thanks for the videos too.

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anon comment

Thanks for the story and the Robinson article, as well. -D

1
duo

Prison torture and murders within America also needs attention. Abuse and secret deaths of inmates - U.S. citizens - was and is permitted by the USDOJ, the agency charged with protecting the rights of institutionalized persons. 

See this desperate plea for help by Penn. prisoners who fear for their lives, saying they were severely punished when Obama became president by verbal abuse, beatings, electrocution, and starvation, with their punishment allegedly growing more brutal after they reported their torture:  http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/1124844

My advocacy centers around exposing prisoner issues, particularly decriminalizing mental illness.  Prisons became America's mental institutions in the 70's, probably to enrich prison profiteers.  Sick inmates suffer even worse than others.  Over 60% of those in solitary confinement are mental patients.  In the document above, a mentally ill inmate was allegedly verbally abused by taunting guards who repeatedly called him "retarded" and advised him to kill himself.

All of the prisoners mentioned in the above document are still in that prison today - still suffering today.

As with the overseas detainees, the USDOJ has frequently denies accountability for wrongful deaths of  American inmates, no matter how much conspiracy among officials and illegal intimidation against a dead inmate's family it takes to avoid disclosure.  I had hoped that things would CHANGE under Holder, but when I called and wrote the USDOJ about the illegal denial of records regarding my brother's secret death, I got put on terminal hold and emails to the USDOJ go unanswered.  See the case regarding my brother, Larry Neal:  http://wrongfuldeathoflarryneal.com

Many abused inmates and their families - U.S. citizens - hope some of the attention to prison torture and wrongful deaths will be turned homeward.  However, I find that their issues are so censored that it is hard to alert the public about the sadism that prevails in U.S. correctional facilities.

Mary Neal

1
aurealeus

As an American, I am more concerned about the types of domestic torture issues regarding our incarcerated "citizen's rights" as outlined in Mary's post than I am about perceived rights of some fanatical foreign terrorist regime that has been determined responsible for thousands of deaths and the National and International Sorrow of millions.

Only when a Nation is willing to accept responsibility for violating the rights of its own people, will its citizens and government be capable of righteously addressing perceived injustices imposed on an enemy... 


0
Amy Judd

Thanks for this update Karen

5
Karen Hatter

The schizophrenic path upon which the Bush administration has led the nation and the world, through the use of the Bush Doctrine, starting a war yet calling it "pre-emptive strike", exemplifying its problematic renaming and discarding terminology in an Orwellian fashion, merits neither admiration nor imitation.

1
aurealeus

Renaming seems to be the trend these days with all our elected officials... "Overseas Contingency Operation"???  Really now!  Sounds more like a bunch of doctors and missionaries on a pleasure cruise.

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Karen Hatter

True, maybe a better name could have been given but, it would seem it was necessary to rename the current ongoing actions something else to avoid carrying baggage associated with the War on Terror or War Against Terrorism during the Bush administration, in an effort to indicate new focus and direction.

1
aurealeus

I understand the current administrations' intention but... 

             ...is it really "something else?"

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Karen Hatter

The 'something else' I referred to was the name. Time will tell about the rest of it.

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aurealeus

.
I apologize if I've misquoted.  I understood "something else" as referring to "the current ongoing actions."

2
Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke

You, America, is having  a very public discussion airing your dirty laundry.  In the end this may well be a good debate amongst yourselves, I.m not sure it helps America though with the rest of the world. 

I have stated before and I will state it again at the risk of repeating myself.  Be careful of the monster you unleash with this vandetta.  As an outsider it seems to me that the whole issue is about getting even with the Bush Administration.  From what I have heard and seen there seems to be some record in Congress that the top 8 officials in Congress were briefed in detail and signed off on those methods circa 2003 (both Democrats and Republicans).  Apparently Nacy Pelosi has recently developed Alzheimers disease on this. 

Remember you still have troops serving around the world.  Please show some consideration to them when beating up on each other on this issue. 

1
Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke

Karen I realize that everything has gone viral long before the discussion on NP.  My point was that America was airing their dirty laundry.  Personally I don.t think anyone that hated America from the start will like it any more because of all this publicity on torture.  The pictures to be released by May 28th will only solidify in peoples minds what they already think of America.

Personally I would be apalled if this kind of discussion was going on in Canada over a previous government.  Lucky for us the world probably wouldn't notice.

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Luke Slomka

these are such dark times, whats the point of going to a country to make thngs better then using torture, i wonder what the pictures will show, lets hope in the end its not as bad as its being made out to be.

4
Karen Hatter

From CIA Field Officer Says US Sacrificed Moral Authority for Nothing :

The use of torture has come at huge costs to American credibility and the morale and psychology of our intelligence agencies. If we're going to pay those costs, we ought to know what we're getting. A thorough clearing of the air will help discredit the idea that we either torture terrorists or become victims. This false choice is played out on shows like 24, leaving people with the notion that had the FBI somehow caught one of the hijackers in the hours leading up to Sept.11, torture would have led to the arrests of the 18 others before those planes took off. The truth is less sensational and more unsettling - but ultimately one that Americans should learn to accept. There are ticking time bombs out there. But torture won't get us any closer to discovering when they're going to go off.

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Fred Miller
First Flagged at 8:41 AM, Apr 25, 2009 by Fred Miller
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