The Origins of Weapons In Mexico- Not as Reported

by Roy C | April 4, 2009 at 03:39 pm
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Fox Report: Mexican guns not from US

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Fox Report: Mexican guns not from US

Undoubtedly, you have heard that "90% of weapons in Mexico come from the US", a statement easily believed as true.

The problem is that, as in so many other cases, an examination of the source of the statement, an examination with real research, casts the statement in a different light, if William La Jeunesse of Fox has done his homework well.  

The concern is that this issue will spark gun seizure with the justification that seizure will reduce border violence.

In the report, it appears that the facts have been distorted and readily repeated when the statement about "90%" only applies to traceable weapons.

Weapons without ID numbers were not included. Further, Mexican army deserters and smuggling from Guatemala appear to be the sources of automatic weapons you cannot buy in the US.

The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.

While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico. 

-- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said it to reporters on a flight to Mexico City.

-- CBS newsman Bob Schieffer referred to it while interviewing President Obama.

-- California Sen. Dianne Feinstein said at a Senate hearing: "It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico and used to shoot judges, police officers and mayors ... come from the United States."

-- William Hoover, assistant director for field operations at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified in the House of Representatives that "there is more than enough evidence to indicate that over 90 percent of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States."

There's just one problem with the 90 percent "statistic" and it's a big one:

It's just not true.

 The fact is, only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S.

What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."

But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.

"Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market," Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.

 Look at the Numbers

In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

Beyond this, while controlling the border would reduce the number of guns coming from the US, looking at the type of guns seized and considering that the number of so-called  "straw buyers" would be enormous, another explanation seems to be more accurate.

'These Don't Come From El Paso'

Ed Head, a firearms instructor in Arizona who spent 24 years with the U.S. Border Patrol, recently displayed an array of weapons considered "assault rifles" that are similar to those recovered in Mexico, but are unavailable for sale in the U.S.

"These kinds of guns -- the auto versions of these guns -- they are not coming from El Paso," he said. "They are coming from other sources. They are brought in from Guatemala. They are brought in from places like China. They are being diverted from the military. But you don't get these guns from the U.S."

Some guns, he said, "are legitimately shipped to the government of Mexico, by Colt, for example, in the United States. They are approved by the U.S. government for use by the Mexican military service. The guns end up in Mexico that way -- the fully auto versions -- they are not smuggled in across the river."

Many of the fully automatic weapons that have been seized in Mexico cannot be found in the U.S., but they are not uncommon in the Third World.

The Mexican government said it has seized 2,239 grenades in the last two years -- but those grenades and the rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) are unavailable in U.S. gun shops. The ones used in an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Monterrey in October and a TV station in January were made in South Korea. Almost 70 similar grenades were seized in February in the bottom of a truck entering Mexico from Guatemala.

"Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semi-automatic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California," according to a report in the Los Angeles Times.

Boatloads of Weapons

So why would the Mexican drug cartels, which last year grossed between $17 billion and $38 billion, bother buying single-shot rifles, and force thousands of unknown "straw" buyers in the U.S. through a government background check, when they can buy boatloads of fully automatic M-16s and assault rifles from China, Israel or South Africa?

Alberto Islas, a security consultant who advises the Mexican government, says the drug cartels are using the Guatemalan border to move black market weapons. Some are left over from the Central American wars the United States helped fight; others, like the grenades and launchers, are South Korean, Israeli and Spanish. Some were legally supplied to the Mexican government; others were sold by corrupt military officers or officials.

The exaggeration of United States "responsibility" for the lawlessness in Mexico extends even beyond the "90-percent" falsehood -- and some Second Amendment activists believe it's designed to promote more restrictive gun-control laws in the U.S.

In a remarkable claim, Auturo Sarukhan, the Mexican ambassador to the U.S., said Mexico seizes 2,000 guns a day from the United States -- 730,000 a year. That's a far cry from the official statistic from the Mexican attorney general's office, which says Mexico seized 29,000 weapons in all of 2007 and 2008.

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1
amyjudd

Interesting; that was definitely a statistic that people just accepted at face value and is probably easy to believe considering how many guns there are in the states, although there are just as many in other countires.

2
Roy C

Thanks, Amy. We have more guns, but they are concentrated in the hands of less than half the population and they are usually heirlooms. But, yes, we have our gun fanatics.

About the sttaistic: I know that I accepted it at face value. I don't own any guns, by the way, but I will buy one eventually.

I would rather actually not feel that I needed one, but that doesn't seem to be what the future holds.

Illegal guns and illegal drugs can be bought all over the world and we need border control and gun laws enforced, not confiscation.

2
Roy C

Amazing to me. You cannot just assume that the press does their homework.

1
QueensHart

That's correct Roy.  Nor do our leaders.  It is not just the press either.

 We now have the technology to discover their fabrications.  Frankly this current President has entered the office by breaking all kinds of promises and ignoring blatantly requests that other candidates followed.  There are  several well documented books revealing the Clinton's distortions and denials.  I asked my brother tonite why do they want to take away the guns?  What is the real reason ?  We all know we can not control crazy people when they snap!  A mentally ill person can kill people with other methods when they want to inflict pain on others  because they are in so much pain.

Why  oh why do we let our  leaders continue to lie?  Why did Hillary say this?  Well, first of all she has gotten away with all kinds of lies in the past so why would she think she would  be called on it! 

Mental illness is the reason people were killed in the recent situations that we have just seen.

Statistically we have many more deaths by automobiles so are we going to ban them?

 


Our academic world too as we have learned is full of false documentations and plagiarism.


 

CHECK OUT THIS CASE IF YOU HAVE TIME TO READ


THE PURSUIT OF THE TRUTH
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?id=3551


There are numerous lessons to be learned from Clayton Cramer’s experience with the Michael Bellesiles saga. Clearly the complacency that prevails in the historical community and the hostility of scholars when one of their own gets caught in blatantly unethical behavior points to a decreased desire to uncover the truth, fear and trepidation at the thought of having one’s theories disproved, a lack of intellectual curiosity, and a cowardly unwillingness to confront and expose a member of the community as a liar. No wonder today’s universities graduate sanctimonious, indolent cowards with little work ethic and a lack of initiative, integrity and intellectual inquisitiveness. If there’s anything that can be learned from the fraud that is Michael Bellesiles, it’s that the pursuit of truth must always outweigh any personal agendas or political schemes.

I’m one of many who hope that the new generation of historical scholars will have the courage and intestinal fortitude to pursue the truth, instead of languidly sitting back and swallowing the party line with slack-jawed compliance. History demands the courage to uncover the truth. Anything less is a disservice to history, to academia and to truth itself.



0
jazzyzazzy

Guns are forbidden in the U.K. Thank goodness. How toy manufacturers get away with producing them as toys for children is beyond belief. Wither it be a water pistol or a pop gun makes no odds. Yes okay the soldiers need them to fight back and protect their country. To think that corruption rears its ugly head in the arms market has now become common place.

0
Maireid Sullivan

Interesting report, RoyC.

I recently posted a very detailed report on this subject here on NP.

And, the film "Lord of Wa"r does a terrific job in showing the priorities of the military industrial complex.

0
Barry Artiste

A porous border, just like Canada

0
Rhonda J Mangus

Very interesting story, Roy! Thanks for this!


1
politisite

Thanks for letting folks know those fully automatic AK are coming from remnants of the central America influx of Russian and Chinese AKs during the communist push in those countries.

One may also keep in mind that the obama push to secure the border is to call it secure so he can introduse the Dream act that will make illegals citizens guaranteeing 5 million aditional democrtas to vote in the 2012 election.  Let along having ACORN pull the 2010 census that helps draw the congressional districts.  Conspriacy you think.  Read back in 2 years.

0
aurealeus

Brings back memories of the Iran / Contra Affair when Oliver L. North, a Marine lieutenant colonel assigned to the National Security Council staff beginning in 1981 until he was fired on November 25, 1986, and was the White House official most directly involved in secretly aiding the contras, selling arms to Iran, and diverting Iran arms sales proceeds to the contras.

North, who was deputy director of political-military affairs, reported many of his activities to his superiors, National Security Adviser Robert C. McFarlane and later John M. Poindexter. He claimed to have taken much of his direction from Central Intelligence Agency Director William Casey.

Conspiracy anyone?

0
Roy C

There are conspiracies and there are policies, attitudes and actions which result from different people and groups having similar character structure and values.

With that, you can, in effect, have a conspiracy without anyone really conspiring.


0
aurealeus

Who's on second?

0
Roy C

Good question. Back later to answer.

0
aurealeus

Oh, oh, there's the buzzer.  Time's Up!  

The answer, is in paraphrasing your previous response,

During the game, the ball gets thrown to who. Who drops the ball and the guy runs to second. Who picks up the ball and throws it to What. What throws it to I Don't Know. I Don't Know throws it back to Tomorrow, Triple play. Another guy gets up and hits a long fly ball to Because. Why? I don't know! He's on third and I don't care!


Ok, ok... I know, I know...... anyways, why not take a break from the serious side for a minute, enjoy some peanuts and popcorn, watch the old baseball comedy routine and come back with a clear head to solve more world problems:  
 Watch Abbott & Costello here.

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First Flagged at 3:47 PM, Apr 4, 2009 by amyjudd
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