Palestine/Israel...Extermination, Occupation, War, or Peace

I think you did an excellent job and pretty much described the current state of affairs. However, in this part of the region, never say never. No one believed that Begin would have made peace with Sadat.

I truly believe once there is a reasonable period of quiet from both sides then confidence should allow for more risks. There needs to be a sincere belief that the Palestinian Authority wants a two state solution and with that I also believe that the outer settlements and illegal settlements will begin to be removed by the government. The large majority of Israelis want peace with the Palestinians within a 2 state frame work.

This includes compromised borders that will be negotiated, East Jerusalem for the Palestinian State, An agreed sharing of the Temple mount area. some sort of over land passage between the west bank and gaza. Refugee issue will be worked out in compensation along with the compensation for the millions of Jews that fled their homes from Arab countries after the 48 & 67 wars. This should be a wash and possible international fund to be distributed in compensation for all parties.

This will only be achieved when and if the agitators, such as Iran, that has an agenda to keep this area in chaos in order to distract the world from their objectives for a bomb can be contained. Since Iran is Not Arab but Muslim there is no love loss between the countries of the region and Iran. In fact they are rightfully scared to death of them and the possibility of them acquiring the capability to fire nuclear weapons.

Thanks for the sincere attempt at understanding and finding solutions for this conflict. Some of the comment here on NP is usually peppered with such racist and anti-Israeli rhetoric it leaves me to wonder if the agitators are really more interested in this area being  Jew-ridden rather then peace-filled .

Steve

Thanks for a clear reasoned response. 

I agree we need two men like Begin and Sadat willing to do what is right over what is popular..

Your ideas for Jerusalem and the settlements is very good and would be fair.

It would be good to bar all outsiders from making the situation worse but that is not possible.

If there could be a 2 year ease fire, enforced, maybe two leaders would take the steps to peace.

Thanks again.

I hope some Palestine supporters will post their solutions.

That's an honest and depressing outlook, 158.

I hope you take as your challenge, convincing Israeli settlers and their lobbies to desist and retire from occupied lands; and to convince the Israeli public that an 'open source' Jerusalem is a cool concept and a symbol of unity, tolerance and openness that can be a model for the whole world and a symbol of peace.

Concerning the settlers, they are simply criminals, and ought to be evicted right away. IT's not like squatters, who like Punks would challenge the capitalist real estate speculators in rich urban zones like London and Berlin. It's quite the reverse and totally uncool to just move your home and business and bank account onto a neighbors property, first sweeping it with military power, and using that pretext, then shifting gears, breaking international law, and turning the security occupation force into pioneers. I know the same could be said for pioneeers in Canada and the USA stealing land from First Nations. There are steps taken to give some land back, and there should be more done in that area as well. Perhaps the un-settling Israelis would actually then provide a model for other nation's to recognize land rights, such as the First Nations in America.

Concerning Jerusalem. Why not give the Israeli architects and designers a 'vertical challenge' and build up, or imagine and innovate, create a hovering city over their zone of Jerusalem. Every problem is a neatly hidden opportunity, and here there are even innovations for over-dense polyglot sprawl that many areas of the world suffer. Who knows maybe such architectural and urban technology developed for such a utopian 'vertical' Jerusalem by the Israelis could improve living conditions in Mexico City, Seoul, and innovate in the very active area of urbanism and architecture with sustainability and population density in mind. Could create wealth for architects and engineers in Israel and help the living standards of uran dwellers worldwide.

The slander and prejudging of Arabs is ridiculous. You know I went to Kabul in 2004 to help build the media infrastructure at the university. I discovered that the word algorithm is an English basterdization of the name of the mathematician and philsopher who invented computer science and lived in what is now Afghanistan. Also Al Biruni who with a friend invented triangulation with self-made instruments 700 years before Leibniz lived. They actually had what we call GPS back then.

There is like in the age of Al Andaluz in Spain when Moses Maimonides, Muhammad Ibn Tufail, Jews, Arabs and Christians lived convivially in harmony for a few hundred years. Cordoba had 50 clinics offering eye and heart surgery, many, many libraries, street lights and toilets for horses, not to mention precision instrumentation 1000 years ago when the rest of Europe was in a dark age. Should the hate dry up and tolerance rain down and your focus be on that rather than blablalbaing Hamas and trivial pursuits that are actually side issues and small-minded if you grasp the big challenge at hand, then things could really move forward and the region not be a security threat and a fuse for a future bomb but a helpful model that embraces and adds to the multiculturalism of Canada and the attempt for that in the EU.

I know this sound naive but then is it not playfulness and even childishness that is our most creative shared spirit?

con 10t

Thank you for a detailed comment. I appreciate your comments even when I disagree. I am anti-Hamas but favor Palestine independence, and I now Israel is not always right.

I know no one in Israel, have no Jewish ancestry and have no vested interests in Israel. I also have no Arab connections.

On settlers I agree they should not have moved into the West Bank, in fact Israel should not have been reestablished in Palestine, but Israel is there, for ever, and there are 300000 settlers in WB and they vote so immediate removal is impossible. There could possibly be an agreement to remove 2/3 of the settlers. 

Concerning Jerusalem, the issue is not space but religion and history.  The west wall is the holiest spod in Judaism.  They will not give that up.  However, exchanging east Jerusalem for peace is a possibility.

Thanks for the history on mathmatics and I envy your chance to visit Afghanistan.

I am sure I have never slandered Arabs or Islam.  I have denounced Hamas for their words and actions but not for their ethnicity or religion. I have the utmost respect for Arab culture and achievements and I hold Islam in a place of honor. I would condemn an anti Muslim just as strongly as I would an anti Judaism.

I am also an admirer of the Moorish age in Spain which was far better than what followed.

I can fully agree with the ideals you express here but the questions is what practical steps can be taken to achieve peace so this vision could become a reality.

Once more, thanks for a very good comment.

158

Resolving the Palestinian Israeli conflict is a challenging task. Overlooking Historic facts, past wars, conflicts, UN Resolutions and Peace initiatives and the peace talks that has been taking place for the last 17 years, would make proposing a new proposal for lasting peace even harder. Firstly, to achieve peace both parties must be prepared to accept it and live together which is not the case with the Israeli’s. Palestinians (PLO) under Yasser Arafat leadership accepted and signed the Oslo’s Peace agreements with Israel, and after 17 years of negotiations they haven’t achieved any progress. Arabs has been advancing Peace proposals sine 1970 and the last Peace proposal was adopted in the Arab league Summit in Beirut in 2002 which was rejected out right by Israel. This peace proposal called for the Withdrawal of Israel from Arab occupied territory in 1967 war, the Creation of two States, Palestine & Israel and the return of the Palestinian refugee ( UN Resolutions: 242, 338,and 194). Israel the only Country in the world that have no official borders (Zionist Israel include the reign historically called Fertile Crescent from the Nile river to the Euphrates- which the two blue lines on the Israeli flag refer to). Israel has been flooding the media with propaganda of peace while they prepare for another war, while settlers continue to build new settlements and drive more Palestinians away. It Seems they perusing their dream of Greater Israel. Israel's blockade of Gaza and the subsequent invasion and massacre of innocent kids and women, has moved peace loving nations to find a solutions to the crises, However, Israel is using this smoke screen to implement their next step of transferring Israel Arabs to deferent Countries. Last week the Israeli Knesset voted to pan to Arab political parties, which was later endorsed by the high court. Be prepared sooner or later we will have about 1.5 Million refugees to cope with. Israel former Prime Minister Begin once said he would negotiate each point with the Arabs for 20 years, gaining time and paving the way for the Transfer of Arab Israeli from their homes in 1948 Israel, to declare Israel a pure Jewish State. If we want peace and want to give peace a chance then we should pressurize our governments to stop financing the Israeli killing machine and force them to respect the international laws and Treaties may be by then they would accept to negotiate peace with Palestinians in good faith.

Red Cyclon

A good comment.  Thanks.

I am busy now but will come back to this soon.

In 1990 Israel offered Arafat 98% of his demands.  The Israeli capitulation occurred after Israel defeated the Arab states in three wars, something unheard of in human history.

Arafat neither accepted nor did he attempt to negotiate for the other two-percent.  Instead he chose war and the Palestinian's have been suffering ever since.

In 1948 the UN established a Jewish state, Israel and a Palestinian state, Jordan.  In 1970 the Jordanians pushed out the Palestinians at gunpoint killing thousands in the process because they could no longer deal with the insanity masquerading as leadership.

The Palestinians are their own worst enemy and much of their pain is self-inflicted.