Radio spreads Taliban's terror in Pakistan SWAT Valley

The Taliban are just Islamic purists following the rules of the Qu'ran. They have invented nothing, unfortunately.

Thanks, guys, unfortunately the Taliban is a creation of the Pakistan government. I find it hard to believe they are serious about controlling them or wiping them out.

The Taliban as an organization have their roots as you have stated, but ideologically, it is simply a very pure from of Islam, a religion that returns to the Abrahamaic concepts of and eye-for-an-eye and stoning for adultery.

I beg to disagree sir, like my self there are many Muslims that turn with anguish sorrow and disgust when the world agrees to Taliban claim that theirs is the purist form of Islam.. Their actions are as Islamic as the Holocaust committed by Nazis.. Their beliefs are as Islamic as the KKK members who happen to be Christians. what I am trying to say is Atheism or religion shouldnt be blamed for the actions of  select group at a given time of history. in Taliban cae that happens to be now unfortunately.

Taliban is an ugly form of Wahabi Islam who is based on hatred narrow minded and bigoted beliefs. they have acted everything opposite to what the Prophet Mohammed taught and done.
if the Prophet Mohammed talked about knowledge and education pursuit and recommended even going to China, they have destroyed Schools.
if he talked about giving refuge and shelter to civilians and those who lay down their arms.. these Taliban blow up and behead helpless civilians.
If he talked about love they have always talked about terror and punishment.
people of Pakistan are scared to come out in the open against them because the leadership is incapable of controlling these monsters... secretly they are despised and hated many times
it really hurts me when people decide to believe their propaganda and declare well the whole Islam is like that. My dears that’s not the religion that me and my fore fathers have followed.

In the past it was the religious minority sects and non Muslims who were their targets now everyone is their target who dares to have a different opinion.

They are a virus and a cancer that has to be removed.. they are pure evil inside out with no remorse or any trace of humanity .. the rage and anger drives them and they use their twisted interpretation of Islam to support their actions.. they are the dark phase of Islamic History which we have to suffer. Like Christians did where Catholics and Protestants spilled the blood of each other for centuries all in the name of God.

My dears please I beg you, don’t play into their hands and refuse to accept their claims that  they represent Islam. A little example.. when Prophet Muhammad lead an Army to Mecca.. he declared a total  unconditional pardon to everyone including people who had killed his family members.. everyone was given protection if he gave up fighting.. it is a well documented fact. Compare it to what Taliban did during their reign of terror, if they took over a city or village from opposing forces, they raised the place to the ground and mercilessly killed everyone.

They claim to base their rules on Quran, yet it was same Quran that Muhammad preached.. under his rule Muslims and nonMuslims lived in peace. When it came to justice there was never discrimination and in many cases Nonmuslims walked away with their claims upheld.

Taliban are using Quran out of context in the same way as the crusades and killing of non Christians was justified by crusaders saying.. Jesus has forbidden killing another human if he is a Christian hence there is no objection to spilling the blood of Muslims.. when Jerusalem fell to Crusaders they killed 70 thousand Muslims and Jews who had been living there all in the name of their Christian interpretation.

What I will agree is that Taliban are Pakistani creation but with Saudi funding and ideology.
Only a true and sincere leadership who has resolve, commitment and ability to confront these religious bigots on a continued bases for years will bring them down using all options, military, social and religious awareness media and education.

Moderate Sunnis have not been sitting idle, their scholars and saint have stood up in the past and criticised them but due to lack of government protection many of them were mercilessly killed there was a harrowing episode where a body of a slain religious scholar was dug out by these barbarians and dragged in the streets. The Shias have been suffering the similar or far worse fate for decades. All other Muslims believe in same Quran, Prophet and God there is no difference in basic beliefs it is Wahabi Talibans who choose to twist the religion to their own ends with the Saudi funding and fanatic manpower of the illiterate and poor tribesmen they continue to blight the fate of millions of Pakistanis and Afghans.

I know my voice will be ignored because what I am saying is not sensational or doesn’t have the shock value.. compare it to a wildy bearded Taliban with blooded eyes ranting about the destruction of infidels .. you have prime time news.. long live the ratings..

Alas what a shame  

I will try to respond or clarify few points you have raised

Based in England but commenting on Pakistan, Why?
I am originally from Pakistani Kashmir that’s why I am usually commenting on issues relating to that part of the world. The involvement of Pakistani origin terrorists in UK is another reason that has affected the lives of other peace loving Pakistanis like me hence I chose to comment.

My two cousins are in Pakistan Army and are currently involved in Fighting the terrorists in tribal areas, my dad himself retired as a Lt Colonel and is very much aware of the whole situation and was serving during the cold war in those areas when US and Pakistan together were fighting the covert war against the communist forces in Afghanistan. if you still think I dont have the right to comment then please forgive me I coudnt help it

How do Taliban control SWAT unopposed from general population?

Firstly I am not sure about the definite number but they are in thousands. No one can doubt their will and determination they have faced the battle hardened Mujahideen that fought the Russians, they have confronted the most advanced, well equipped and trained forces of America and other NATO countries the world has ever seen and they are continuously in battle with the Pakistan Army in its own country. We all know that we can’t deny their capabilities. The local population of those areas and the general public of Pakistan have voiced their opposition and stood in their path but what chance do the civilians have when American might has failed to subdue till now.

 

having said that there are many stories and examples where tribesmen HAVE stood up against them.The following link from BBC talks about the tribal elders trying to stand against the Taliban.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7655422.stm

Commitment of Pakistan against terrorists
An other link from BBC where the journalists were taken to front lines. The place where my family members within the army are also fighting against the terrorists. The amount of carnage and losses government forces has taken is shocking. Pakistan alone has suffered more causalities than the NATO forces but that fact is just overlooked. And a brushing statement is passed questioning the commitment and willingness of the Pakistani forces fighting the Taliban.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7778388.stm

If we start finger pointing then look at Afghanistan.. Where the Kabul Government is besieged itself and confined to few quarters while Taliban freely abduct people, blow up schools and hospitals.. all in the face of Apachi gunships, A10 thunderbolts and US Special forces.. I guess blaming Pakistan is a bit unfair.

Buildings have been raised and thousands of people displaced due to the fighting, government employees kidnapped and mercilessly killed due to the on going conflict I don’t know what else you expect Pakistan that is not doing already. Thousands of young men have lost their lives fighting these insurgents who melt in the general public and attack without any regard to the people around them.

People standing up to Taliban
Following link is the story of a veteran Pushtoon leader who has wowed to confront and fight the Taliban and refuses to leave his area although he is on the hit  list

http://www.geo.tv/1-29-2009/33806.htm
 
There have been many instances where the people confronted the terrorists and were killed. It is the fear for life which is keeping the general public apparently silent but one shouldn’t out rightly dismiss the fact that people HAVE stood against them but with little success.

The propaganda war and Islamic interpretation

The fanatic terrorists of Al Qaida and Taliban are using the  propaganda very effectively and using the anti western sentiments to their advantage that is what enabling them to mute any news of their barbarism to the general public that is not directly affected by them. That’s where we are failing, we need to confront their beliefs and their ideology and break their claim to Islam

 I will like to quote a news I came across in BBC sorry it was some time ago and I cant find the link. I swear on my life I am not making it up. It is about Iraqi Authorities trying to rehabilitate a group of fanatics that were captured  some where in Iraq.
An Arab Muslim Scholar was assigned for the job to educate and correct them. In one instance he went in the room that had a number of captured fanatics, upon entering the room he said A salaam o Alakum ( a Muslim way of greeting saying peace be with you). The leader of the captives responded by throwing his sandals on his face.

The scholar turned to him and said to him “ what did I say to you?”
“you said Asalam o Alakum” he replied unmoved
“do you know Salaam is one of the names of Allah”? scholar asked
“Yea..  I know” the fanatic leader replied with  a bit of hesitation and confusion.
“so you chose to throw your sandal at the name of Allah.. right”? the scholar said and then left the room.

The scholar says that later that night he was woken up by the guards of the facility and told that there was problem in the prison.. when he went there he saw that the fanatic leader was shaking with fear and begging for a separate cellar because for what he had done earlier, the other fanatics decided to kill him.

This is a small episode about confronting their ideology,I don’t know if you get me what I am trying to say here. There is no "one fit for all solution" to resolve this problem.. we need to use sense, force, knowledge whatever applicable according to the situation.

And believe me there are many people doing it at this time.

To conclude I would I will say

we are confronting Taliban and Al Qaida terror but don’t make it to the news at same volume and frequency like these fanatics do.
We don’t agree with their demented interpretation of Islam...... period
We are helpless & fearful for lives so we don’t speak out as much as we want to
Taliban have butchered families and destroyed villages who dared to stand against them.
Re: infidel being an English word I don’t know what was your point? Taliban don’t speak English yes you are right. They call everyone Kafir, (I just used the English equivalent.)  and base their actions on Islam. If  you choose to accept their argument then whats the point of having a debate at all? I rest my case. totally ignore us if we say we feel sorry for the human loss of life and respect every human being regardless of color or belief. when every opening statement about Islam contains the quotation of these fanatic terrorists thats what really boils my blood.

Frustrated,  because people choose to listen and give more attention to their Islamic interpretiotin

ashamed,  because what mess and carnage Al Qaida and Taliban managed in the name of Islam

Angry and mournful, because it is still happening and the nightmere is not ending.

 

Horrifying reality this, and Amaad's very informative comment is well worth reading....

Thanks for posting this

Political division of Kashmir
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=kashmir%20map

It is a small arc like reign next to the Indian held Kashmir. Kashmir itself has 4 parts
Ladakh, Jammu & Gilgit (Northern Areas)
Ladakh is in china’s control
Major part in the middle bit is in Indian control Jammu and Kashmir
and the left side is in Pakistan the small arc like dotted lines is where I am from it has its own government but is under Pakistani control along with northern areas of Kashmir.  I will leave the political history and the struggle because that it a sour debate between India and Pakistan and will open an off topic discussion.

Duality within Islam

I will try to explain why I don’t agree with this comment.  The difference between Islam and other known religions of the time was that it was presented as a social way of life with more emphasis on people and society than the worship of God. Holy Quran itself and Sunnah (the life of Prophet Muhammad including sayings and actions) were declared as a source of Shariah (Islamic law) on which the Islamic scholars laid down the principles of Islamic life. Now Quran itself has two types of verses Mohkum (definite, explicit) and Mohmil (arbitrary, implied).
My point here is that it was not just a set of strict rules but a lot of left open for the people to adjust according to their times and situation.

There is no room for difference of opinion to the explicit verses that are clear do’s and don’ts the Oneness of God, the Prophet hood of Mohammad and all the once before him from Adam to Jesus the Judgement day etc. the implied ones are were people are preached based on a story in the past of told to do things in a certain way..
The confusion was with the conclusions of different schools not the source. Yes there were things that changed with the time like change of the direction of worship from Bait ul Lehem in Jerusalem to Mecca etc but that was all the continued process in the life of Prophet .
That’s where the different schools of Jurisprudence came up with their own meanings but that was only on the Mohmil or implicit verses. What Taliban or any other fanatic does is takes a piece of verse and uses it to justify his action. Problem is not with the source but the way it is misused.

Taliban are against the women education.. The prophet told us to learn from cradle to grave and go to china even for seeking knowledge (at no point it was a male exclusive right).
Taliban gleefully talk about murdering non believers. Quran says killing a single human being is like killing humanity.
Islam talked about standing up against the oppression and evil and defending itself. This concept is twisted and moulded into an Islamic version of Nazi barbarism by Al Qaeda and Taliban. If they can prove that Muhammad ordered the extermination of all non Muslims after taking over in Mecca and Medina then I will agree that maybe I am not following Islam at all its something else.

Believe me, the points you have raised are baffling the Muslims like me for long time where we are saying to ourselves.. “Hey are we wrong or these fanatics wrong? We never saw or understood Islam the way they are claiming” there is a lot of soul searching. What I can say for sure is just like Jesus never ever told Protestants or Catholics to butcher each other and any other non Christian in the name of Christ , it was never ever the intention or the desire of Muhammad to see his religion to turn into another name for intolerance and chaos.  Shortly to your question , the Scriptures these fanatics quote are valid but their interpretation and taking them out of context is malicious and deceitful.

 Military action in SWAT

 You have raised questions about the ability and willingness of the Pakistan Army against a smaller number of Taliban in Swat. Like I said earlier I am not aware of the numbers so I won’t go into details. In general I will agree with the question why can’t a numerically superior and trained force with all the military hardware take care of  these fanatics.

Till today the military has lost over 1000 personal and time it by 5 the people who have been maimed and disabled for life. While me and you sitting in our cosy rooms debate about their loyalties the Americans and Pakistani military planners work together against these fanatics.  Many people fighting the Taliban have lost their comrades they graduated with or grew up together and joined the forces together if the loss of their comrades was not enough criticising their commitment and questioning their loyalty will be a biggest insult that would cause more harm than a roadside bomb.

Here is what I see is causing the problem

• Pakistan army is not trained for urban warfare within its own people. While they have to suffer the media and public back lash for civilian deaths. The militants don’t have that predicament.
• It is impossible to use gunship ruthlessly and use cluster bombs and white phosphorus in Swat, its not GAZA.
• The Taliban are local people who melt into public and sneak attack on army without any regard to collateral damage. Whereas army can’t do the same when militants are holding hostages.
• They use propaganda and intimidation to keep general public from helping army and are hoping that they will outlast by waiting for army to leave, same tactic that Taliban have announced in Afghanistan that all they need to do is outlast Americans for 10 years and then do what they please unopposed.

There is nothing suspicious, Americans won’t be giving military and intelligence help with their officers in the planning rooms with Pakistan army if part of the brigade is helping Taliban. I hope American Military planners will be aware of such happening and will ensure and force Pakistan to eliminate those elements.

On the other hand if we believe that there are elements within the armed forces that are sympathetic to fanatics and assisting them I would applaud them that they continue to subvert the army and if it is failing to expose them then it deserves a shameful defeat at the hands of taliban. recent death of a former General who wanted to expose those elements is suspicious only because media is speculating Problem is the way media is presenting the situation and drawing a doomsday scenario on one side there will be a news that how many civilians have died due to American drone attack and how many people displaced due to military operation on other hand news of a local shop keeper or health worker beheaded by Taliban and an outsider says damn whats going on.

There is no quick fix and the solution is a long term

• Confront, question and expose the Taliban/ Al Qaeda’s  false claim to Islam with examples of Prophet’s teaching and Quranic interpretation
• Educate and employ the local pubic
  
• Provide security and peace to the locals
  
• Improve international interaction and inter faith meetings to show that despite different colour and beliefs both value humanity, peace and deserve respect
  
• Request the help of local elders to weed out the terrorists
  
• Bring up an honest and committed political leadership.

Following link is in PDF and a good read about confronting the Taliban
http://www.defense.ro/gmr/Engleza/Ultimul_nr/foxley-p.144-148.pdf

Wahabis and their origin

Prophet Muhammad predicted about   spawning of the horn of devil in Najad in Saudi Arabia,  some  sects of Islam like Beralvi Sunnis and Shias agree that Muhammad meant about Wahabis.  It refers to the place of birth of their founder in Saudi Arabia which is the central place of wahabi power with its rigid and inflexible Islamic interpretation
Intolerance to all others
No room for questioning and discussing their Islamic version
Total disgust and hate towards women education or freedom
Lack of enthusiasm or indifference to Prophet Mohammad and his family and teachings
According to Wahabis there is nothing special about Mohammad being the prophet it was just his luck as if it could have happened to anyone down the road, just a fluke that god chose him. That’s the very gist of their philosophy.. whereas other sects of Islam believe that prophet hood is divine and all massagers from Adam to Jesus and Mohammad were assigned by God due to their own qualities which put them above all the people of their times.
Following is the link from wikipedia about Wahabisim if you can spare few moments

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism
just scroll down to the heading Criticism by other Muslims and attitudes towards non-Muslims and you would understand why am I not their fan.

 

Finally
I am going to Pakistan in few weeks and I will ask these questions to get a better understanding.. I am going to ask both serving and retired personal, my former colleagues and if lucky, get hold of a Taliban sympathiser and see what is their take on these questions.
will I make it back alive? if we go by Media the odds are against me..

if I dont then let me say  love you all, it was nice knowing you and I really repsect the depth of knowledge and reasoning some people have.

peace

Fascinating and very informative post and comments.

I personally shall wait for Amaad's article when he gets back.

After all, I, and as far as I know, all commenters here are less close to the reality, be it situational or cultural, than he is.........

Thanks...

THE THIRD WORLD WAR

HOW?...   WHY?...

 

WAR CANNOT DECIDE WHO IS RIGHT…

IT ONLY DECIDES WHO IS LEFT.

 

There is no doubt that over the next few years, conflict will become an aspect of everyday doings and in every region on earth. Values based on theory or principle will have no place whatsoever in this conflict and ‘the survival of the fittest’ will, on the contrary, be the only commandment. Thus, all political games and secret conspiracies are going to be sure directives; quantitative power that can resort to aggression, violence and extreme ruthlessness are going to prove more dominant and successful in the conflict and for a long time to come. These words are a strikingly realistic comment on the general circumstances that prevail.

     We also are aware that with modern techniques changing the face of war, battles between two nations are no more restricted to the battlefield. Now the fury of war has engulfed every region of every nation. Moreover, all the organizations of the world pretend to fight war under the guise of a dutiful observance of religion though no religion advocates this sort of destruction. War no longer fought between the good and the evil, is but a violent eruption, entirely immoral. Pulling us out of our cozy and secure cocoons, the work bears before us, this and other such blatant realities.

     The time has come when we should keep our eyes wide open and observe the history of the Jews, the birth of Palestine and Israel, Osama-bin-laden, the Al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations, the conversion in Africa, Saddam, the I.S.I., the double standards of the U.S.A., Pakistan’s hatred for India and the shelter that it offered to the terrorists, Iran and terrorism, the current situation in Bangladesh, Taiwan, Cuba and also in the Indian subcontinent.

     Pure Democracy, though capable of watering down the horrors of war, the stream of democratic thought, weakened in most nations due to struggle for power and blind religious mindsets, is not really going to offer much relief. Yesterday it was a cruel tyrant by the name Hitler; today, it is Laden, who is going about destroying the world. As for the mastermind behind the Third World War, we are in the dark about him, at least as of now.

You know, this is the best thing that has ever happened. Now that the Pakistani government has given the Swat Valley to the Taliban and they are all flocking in there like a bunch of demented sheep, let them continue to build camps, import arms, and gather into groups.

THEN ANNILATE THE WHOLE BUNCH WITH MOAB BOMBS!!!!!!!

well said mate

use a 2000 pounder JDAM on them. and gas the survivers, not kidding. they are hell bent on killing us all. human rights dont apply to them