SAY NO TO BEIJING: Tibetan Outcry

news wanted:

I think this is an important story and would benefit from other NowPublic contributors working on it. I've flagged it as News Wanted and invite others in relevant locations to look for more evidence.

China does not repress religious freedom. What is religion? Religion is a set of beliefs that believes in a superior maker or creator who believes in nonviolence.  The State of China fully supports any religion or organization that abides by nonviolent venues. Nonviolence represents truth and honor and respect and dignity. China's PR fully supports those good society ideals. But violence broke out in protest in China's Tibet Lhasa, and when this happens and Monks and Supporters of the violence started to destroy other peoples property and causing life and death situations. Of course China being a State has come to ensure order, to stop the violence. 

Religions that practice violence are subject to exposing themselves as not religions as the Dali Lama has provoked.  This sends a signal to the State of China  that really the Religion in Tibet is a violent religion, and so what has the Dali Lama accomplished? Nothing but mistrust. Tibet is part of China I believe; having traced China history and its roots. In fact people misunderstood why China Troops came to Tibet. It was not because of taking over Tibet. How could they come to take over a region that was already part of China? The real reason they came to Tibet was to assure security of the borders from India- Pakistan, which were still opium producers left over from the British Imperialistic Opium Drug Trade that wrecked havoc on the world. Do you think China wanted more Opium wars, which resulted in their loss of their land and country to Britain namely Hong Kong, to happen in Tibet? Not on your life. Do you think they want to have Opium or drugs smuggled into China from Tibet? No of course not.  Do you think people can understand the truth to these things? Of course not. People break the law and blame someone else.

If China did not come to Tibet and allowed the protests to continue with looting and destruction of property and killing of Chinese people living in Tibet, what would that bring as a result? That Tibet a religion got its Independence by killing innocent people?  The Dali Lama does not practice nonviolence, and has not fully supported those efforts. If he truly is the Dali Lama, he would denounce the violence and work toward efforts to help change governments in the world to end their military apparatus. When there is no enemy what need for an army?  Religions I blame for the creation of the State. Their violence to each other has created the State to impose its rules toward governing society. China has a long history where Religion came to their lands by missionaries, to have them become violent enterprises that have supported drug use and wrong ideals to society. It is why they have a nonreligious attitude toward their statehood. Until religions can prove they are really religious which means they represent nonviolence even at the face of violence, then militaries will always quash the misguided religious rebels.

There are Churches in China, I live here I should know. The idea of religion and practice is two different topics of concern. Religions that seek organization and solicitation seek other things besides being religions. In all objective constructive analysis it is an attempt to overthrow the State. The United States certainly had no qualms in crushing the David Koresh Religion that was a violent sect.  600 monks protesting their lack of religious freedom is pretty much unfounded. What freedoms are they trying to extrude? Is it religion or economic controls? Is it Religion or trying to rule the State. The Chinese government doesn't just shoot innocent people. Like Tiananmen Square, students became violent, and order needed to be restored. Is there a difference to that in comparison to Kent State University? I think not....except different time, but the issue was still about overthrowing the government. What stuck me with Tiananmen was that Deng Xiao Ping was for Democracy, and students were protesting him! Goes to prove Democracy implodes on itself constantly, while they try to blame other factors and situations. 

Religions in America are hardly free in comparison. They are as hypocritcal as the State. Most religions are made up of members of the State in America, which supports the use of guns and violence if they want.  I don't know of any religions in the US that are exempt from paying taxes from their labor and work when they have to work in America during a time of War. They are forced to pay to support war even at the behest of their religious beliefs. This is hardly religious freedom in America; and America says they have freedom of religion? They certainly do not.

good stuff:

azzayindia, I like this story. It's good stuff.

Ironically familar to China's, "China can say no" movement from sixty years ago.

good stuff:

azzayindia, thanks for bringing this to us.  It certainly has sparked a lot of comment, but probably not nearly enough.  I think The Peoples' Republic is the scariest country of them all.

good stuff:

azzayindia, I like this story. It's good stuff.

It is ridiculous. This can never be the truth. I have been studying Chinese history for several years and I am quite sure that Chinese is a kind and peace-loving people. I am now in China on an exchange programme, and have been keeping a close eye on this issue. The so-called peaceful protest was actually full of violence. The protestors burned down the houses of those innocent Tibetans' and brutally killed many innocent people there. Chinese authority has tried to avoid using force and many of the police there were badly attacked. The media were apparently trying to mislead those people who have a bias against China.  Though the government may have some problems, but China doesn't deserve such unfair treatment. I used to hold that the Chinese is an aggressive people, as the media has led us to believe.  But through contact with the Chinese people, my view on China was totally reversed.  I just can't figure out why we should be so hostile to such a kind people. Many of the pictures our media have provided us actually have been modified. I feel obligated to let you know the truth.

I agree Shirley. I have been in China now 7 years, and the rhetoric from the media against China does not meet the reality. I have seen China government footage of the Tibet violence, with people looting and targeting innocent people. The government was called in to stop the violence. But then they turn the table, saying the violence was against the police forces. The Dali Lama says he is a religion yet he does nothing to stop the violence? In fact he should have been happy that the China forces came to stop the rampage. No he fans the flames claiming something that is really unable to materialize. I can go around saying I am independent but how do you prove it? Violence? The message is Nonviolence. Independence is the use of Nonviolence, that opens doors to all the good in the world. How is it people do not understand that message? India learned that lesson a long time ago. The Dali Lama needs to study Mahandas Gandhi, one of the greatest men of our time.

No country is fully peace loving or they wouldn't have militaries. America sells arms and weapons across the world to countries to support the sabber rattling and discontent that stirs across the globe. To my knowledge China has wanted dialogue, but it has been the Dali Lama who has been avoiding the talks. You don't need to tell me about China violence, I have seen it from Tiananmen Square, but I have also seen it in the United States. Why doesn't the US grant independence to the State of Montana, or to Hawaii? Why doesn't Canada grant independence to Quebec? You know you people throw jabs about no civil rights in China and don't look at the own mess in your own backyard.  Point in case we need more talk and acts of nonviolence. May I ask you how to give the World its own Independence?  How is that achieved? Some think is achieved by guns, certainly by the American Govenment and then others believe it is by Nonviolence. The war in the world is between those who believe in violence to achieve their objectives, and those who believe in Nonviolence to achieve them. Certainly Nonviolence holds the water in the bucket and is the more creditable authentic value system to believe with. True Religions of the world support Nonviolence. That beng said True Religion will always have an opposing view of the State who has become under seige by Americanism and its gun cultured militarism.

If you want to point fingers of the cause to Tibet, you need only look at the USA. They don't support equal rights to people really. It is forced upon to have equal rights! Is that equal rights? I say not! Imposed peace is no peace.

The Dali Lama listening to Bush has gone off the wrong side of truth, when the fact is equal rights are begotten by supporting Nonviolence in the World. Chairman Mao in his day saw a great calamity on China, in which China was overtaken by drug traffickers pushing Opium and addicting the entire society. America and Britain controlled China, and were wanting to contol Japan as well with Opium. When Japan attacked Nanjing to oust the West control of China, it brought upon Chairman Mao who was successful in kicking out the West, and Japan and ending the opium seige on China. To this Day the West neither talks or apologizes to China for its opium deeds in those days, which caused so much bloodshed and terror in the world.

Iraq is still bleeding from those days, because of the taking of Kuwait from Iraq, so US Merchants could ship Opium train and railroaded from Turkey to Kuwait bound for China in those days. Our struggle in the world is to oppose militaries by the use of Nonviolence. Until the day comes when force is dissolved by Nonviolent Societies then we will have real peace, instead of its impostor imposed peace.

"The power of communism comes from the barrel of a gun" - Chairman Mao

You are really funny eastvanray. Who seems to be using that gun all the time? Who actually used the Atomic Bomb twice in the world? Who seems to be in one war after another all the time? Actually you mean The Power of Democracy/Republic comes from the barrel of a gun.  Chairman Mao...certainly was misquoted.

I have been living here for 7 years, and they have got to be the best people I have ever known. The people have no guns because they know guns do more killing in society. America is case in point. America has freedom to have guns, and their crime rate is more than triple in comparison. And China has 1 billlion more people.  You really think Americans could overthrow America's government? They can't even impeach Presidents for lying to go to war. America abuses more people in the world than China could ever even imagine.

One only needs to see America's past in wiping out Native American peoples, preventing them from being part of the Constitution. One only needs to see the corrupt Slavery that America had and racial prejudice toward Black Americans up to even this day and time. Americans imprison more Blacks and have more homes in foreclosure and people without jobs and you say America protects and honors basic human rights? They still hang nooses in trees, and support the KKK. You have got to joking right?

America lost the right to say what is against human rights, when they maliciously kill innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, with torture and inhuman rights abuse to people they still hold in secret detention rendition centers throughout the world. They lost the right to say what is against Human Rights when they bomb any damn country they seem fit to bomb at their whims, without having an ounce of concern to the innocent people they have eradicated. Do you think they apologize in dropping 2 atomic bombs on Japan in wiping out innocent civilians there? Or apologize for the 7 million they wiped out in Vietam? Or to apologize for their lies to American citizens.

They hung Saddam Hussein after a fake trial having labelled him the king of Terror. And while they didn't keep him for terrorist information, they prefer to keep lackeys and innocent people locked up over protracted periods of time. America is a travesty, a rabid dog on the loose, and no one can stop the vicious monster. Case in point is the inabilty to Impeach a President for Crimes against the people. If Bush is so innocent he wouold allow investigations to go forward to what really happened on 911. But instead he allows binLadin people the right to leave America, and to this day has no intention of finding Osama. I think you are really without a clue to who is the real Nation against human rights, when America will fund Isreal and the killing of innocent Palestinians.

America began by overtaking and conquering land from people, wiping out whole tribes of Native Americans, they used Black Slavery for over 100 years to support their fraud, and to this day will not apologize to Black Americans or have Blacks or Native American Indians honored in America. And yet China a country who has never aggressively taken over another country, but were subjects to the forced drug trade of Opium into their country with Britain and America vying to take land territories such as Hong Kong and Kowloon, had their people killed and manipulated by the West for their greed and profits, is somehow a terrible horrible nation? You are without a clue to the dynamics of culture. At least China is and hopefully will be the only country nation that has its original people as part of its Constitution. It is over 7,000 years old....and you mean to tell me they don't know what is going on in the world? They have more respect for human rights than temper tantrum America could ever muster....and I Thank God for that.

http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/War_Crimes_Criminals/us_crimes.htm

http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/War_Crimes_Criminals/churchill.htm

http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/War_Crimes_Criminals/israel.htm

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1422

http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-index.htm

http://www.warcrimeswatch.org/news_details.cfm?artid=344&cat=14

http://www.warcrimeswatch.org/news.cfm?cat=14

http://www.warcrimeswatch.org/news_details.cfm?artid=1626&cat=14

 "I don't care what the international lawyers say, we are going to kick some ass." said President George Bush

http://www.geocities.com/daveclarkecb/RealUSA.html

The USA has bombed the following nations since the end of WW2

1. China 1945-46
2. Korea 1950-53
3. China 1950-53
4. Guatemala 1954
5. Indonesia 1958
6. Cuba 1959-60
7. Guatemala 1960
8. Congo 1964
9. Peru 1965
10. Laos 1965-73
11. Vietnam 1961-73
12. Cambodia 1969-70
13. Guatemala 1967-69
14. Grenada 1983
15. Libya 1986
16. El Salvadore 1980s
17. Nicaragua 1980s
18. Panama 1989
19. Iraq 1991-2002
20. Sudan 1998
21. Afghanistan 1998
22. Yogoslavia 1999
23. Afghanistan 2001
24. Iraq 2003

The My Lai Massacre

On 16th March 1968 American soldiers killed more than 500 civilians at the village of Song My. To quote from Sue Downie's book:

"The Americans, believing the village was harbouring a Viet Cong battalion and spoiling for a fight, shot or stabbed almost everything that moved, and then set fire to homes." ... "No Viet Cong was seen and not a shot was fired at the Americans" ... "Many women were raped, sodomised, scalped, disemboweled and had their hands cut off."

It seems that the only American to spend any time in jail over this abomination was the officer in immediate command, Lt. William Calley. He spent two days in jail.

There are many references on the Internet. They are easily found. Several suggest that this was not an isolated incident. There is no doubt that the US military would have hushed it up if they were able to.

Laos

During the Vietnam war the US dropped two million tonnes of bombs on neighbouring Laos (the most bombed country in history) and nothing good was achieved, either from the point of view of 'winning' the war, or any advancement of human rights or move toward democratic government. Laotians continued to be killed in thousands by left-over bomblets for decades after the war, and the USA not only gave no assistance to clean up the unexploded bombs that they had dropped, but refused to even inform those who were trying to help of how the bombs could most safely be rendered harmless.

And yet, as I write (2003/03/15), with the USA and Australia threatening to invade Iraq, what has been learned

Who sold Saddam his weapons?http://www.geocities.com/daveclarkecb/RealUSA.html

Much of the information for this section originated from a page on the Web site of the Sunday Herald.
More recent evidence has come from leaks from the report that Iraq was forced to produce about its weapons, see Common Dreams.
Upper Valley Peace and Justice, an organization based in Vermont and New Hampshire, USA, gives a list of the companies that supplied weapons or components.

According to the authors of the Sunday Herald article, Neil Mackay and Felicity Arbuthnot, the information was published in a report of the US Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs.

Authenticity checking

I checked the Internet site of this US Senate Committee, but could not find the reference (not surprising, I didn't know where to look). I have inquired of the Senate Banking Committee Webmaster, (webmaster@banking.senate.gov), but have never received any reply.

I have emailed the Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs (Alexander Downer), Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs (Laury Brereton) and Australian Democrats Senator with the Foreign Affairs portfolio (Natasha Stott-Despoja). I received a reply only from Senator Stott-Despoja, who confirmed that many western nations had supplied chemical and biological materials, or their precursors to Iraq.

The claim

"THE US and Britain sold Saddam Hussein the technology and materials Iraq needed to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction. Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia. Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene. Classified US Defence Department documents also seen by the Sunday Herald show that Britain sold Iraq the drug pralidoxine, an antidote to nerve gas, in March 1992, after the end of the Gulf war. Pralidoxine can be reverse engineered to create nerve gas."

The article goes on with more detail and at some length, (see the original on the Sunday Herald link above, but I think this is sufficient for my present purposes.

Noam Chomsky, in his book Rogue States, says that:

The Senate Banking Committee reported in 1994 that the US Commerce Department had traced shipments of "biological materials" identical to those later found and destroyed by UN inspectors.

and

In a February 28, 1998, review of Western sales of materials usable for germ warfare and other weapons of mass destruction, the New York Times mentions one example of US sales in the 1980s that included "deadly pathogens," with government approval - some from the army's center of germ research in Fort Detrick.

The importance of the claim

How can any nation sell arms to another nation, and then use that nation's possession of those arms as the primary justification for invasion? This would be a gross violation of all ethical principles.

if america has done something wrong that does not mean china should follow the same path china should take a lead in solving issues peacefully and through negortiations.