Terrorism necessitates higher states of scrutiny

by YankeeJim | December 12, 2009 at 06:22 am
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Islam is a global religion like many others. The Islamic jihad movement and radical terrorist elements find their homes anywhere in the global village.



“Arrests suggest U.S. Muslims, like those in Europe, can be radicalized abroad

Community groups, in bid to address problem, launch programs aimed at youths




By Mary Beth Sheridan and Spencer S. Hsu

Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, December 12, 2009

“A spike in terrorism cases involving U.S. citizens is challenging long-held assumptions that Muslims in Europe are more susceptible to radicalization than their better-assimilated counterparts in the United States.”



The article further states:


“American Muslim organizations, jolted by the spate of cases, are abandoning their hesitation to speak out about the issue. While underlining that only a tiny minority has become radicalized, two major groups -- the Muslim Public Affairs Council and the Council on American-Islamic Relations -- said this week that they would launch counter-radicalization programs aimed at young people.”


However, local leaders from the mosque where the five Northern VA students who were arrested in Pakistan made statements indicating that they are still in denial about the prospects of the guilt of these individuals. At a press conference, Mahdi Bray of the Muslim American Association and other Muslim leaders said the men showed no inclination to violence or extremism. Yet, they showed up at the residence of know extremists in Pakistan including being accompanied by one father.

Questions should be asked:

How do Pakistan people immigrate to America? What due diligence is given to their being accepted? Should not the Department of Homeland Security be closely monitoring the movement of people between the USA and nations in which the USA is engaged in conflict? Is not profiling in order under these circumstances?

The conditions of war and terrorism necessitate higher states of scrutiny, don’t you think?

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1
Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke

Good questions Jim?

2
YankeeJim

We have a big problem. We don't want to be in the position of rounding up people like we did with Japanese Americans at the outbreak of WWII, but, terrorism is a different situation.

We know the profile of terrorists, where they come from, organizations to which they belong, with whom they are affiliated. We own our borders and can be much more careful about who enters the country and what they do here.

2
Rory Cripps

Good story YankeeJim! Yes! We have a big problem! And it's called PC.

1
YankeeJim

Thanks Rory. I walk on egg shells.

2
Hugh Askew

The conditions of war and terrorism necessitate higher states of scrutiny, don’t you think?

Most would think so, but you must remember the laws of PC.

It is more important that people be allowed to break our laws than the laws of PC be broken.

1
YankeeJim

Not in my book.

1
Hugh Askew

We must be reading the same book.....

0
nanute

Where can I get a copy of that book you guys keep talking about? Is it leather bound and based on the teachings of Christ?

0
Hugh Askew

nahh.

It is unbound. Look under "Common Sense".

1
nanute

Common sense seems to be in short supply lately. I just haven't seen or heard anyone advocating that people should be allow to break our laws. I've read a lot of comments elsewhere advocating that the laws don't apply to certain individuals, but that's a sensitive subject.

1
Rory Cripps

nanute:

I've read a lot of comments elsewhere advocating that the laws don't apply to certain individuals, but that's a sensitive subject.

Gee! I wonder where you read those comments? I know that I've personally attempted to argue my sincere belief that Muslim terrorists and suspected Muslim terrorists over in Iraq and Afghanistan should not be granted the same rights that American citizens are granted on American soil under the U.S. Constitution. I've also argued my belief that American military personnel are not policemen and that for Muslim terrorists and suspected Muslim terrorists to be brought back to the U.S. for civilian trial is absurd and would pose a logistical nightmare. 

I was at a Christmas party yesterday and after we sang a few Christmas carols (I bet you just love singing Christmas carols, lol) I got to talking with a former SPEC-OPS officer that served in Nam and Iraq. In Iraq, he worked closely with the Iraqi military.

At one point, during his tour, he was in charge of gathering intel from Iraqi prisoners A major problem which he encountered was the fact that the Iraqi military often had custody of the prisoners before and subsequent to the intel process, yet he was held accountable for the well-being of the prisoners. In other words, even though he had no control over the fact that the Iraqi military would often beat the crap out of the prisoners, or worse, he was accountable. There was no doubt that the captured  terrorists preferred to be in the custody of American troops than in the custody of Iraqi troops. He was in a camp divided.


We went on to talk about the ROE restrictions imposed on the U.S. military which  further confirmed my belief that U.S. military personnel are severely bound by the constraints of PC when it comes to responding to terrorists in an appropriate and effective manner.

For example: In Iraq, it was (and still is) the case that  terrorists assume positions in Mosques and fire upon American troops and snipers climb up on minarets and snipe at U.S. troops. Yet American troops can't even step foot into those Mosques let alone return fire and blow the bloody thing up! Do you think that Muslim terrorists have any qualms about blowing up a church or synagogue?

IMHO America's obsession with PC has rendered the country ineffective in dealing with terrorists and the threat of terrorism in an effective and appropriate manner. And I'll go a step further and assert that the U.S. is,de facto, granting special privileges and rights to the Muslim community here in the U.S. and throughout the world as a result of its PC obsession. When the U.S. military knowingly and willingly allows a jihadist to continue serving within its ranks, then America has a serious and deadly PC problem.


1
YankeeJim

Roger all of that Rory.

0
nanute

I've heard it all before. I know how you feel. Thanks.

0
Rory Cripps

nanute: And some of the same (but not all) goes for you too.

There is no doubt that you march in lockstep with all "talking points" issued by the ACLU and the "progressive" movement. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I've said it before and I say it again: To grant the same rights to Muslim terrorists and suspected Muslim terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan, which American citizens are granted under the U.S. Constitution upon American soil, is absurd. 

IMHO you are a complete and total advocate of PC and in your mind, PC takes precedence above all else. If  I believed that you had a legal leg to stand on in regard to your PC "rule of law" interpretation, in regard to Muslim terrorists, I wouldn't argue with you. Indeed, I would agree with you wholeheartedly. But I think that you're out in ideological left field, with a hockey stick, on this one.

0
nanute

I don't know what your definition of PC is. Care to elaborate?

1
Babel-Fish

I am sure they are actually doing that now notice how quick the FBI ops sorry CIA were on the scene guess who warned the local authorities in Pakistan? The problem is that citizens can go on holiday one place and end up in another. What you do put a tracer in their passport?

Let me explain I could go to France cross the border to Germany fly to Cyprus then on to turkey cross the border into into Iran. If I was a second or third generation Muslim migrant or just a good old American boy that converted to Islam, can you see the problem?

I would suggest the CIA mosque and Islamic community watch works yes of course the CIA is doing that it a logic thing to suspect. But what ever done there is no thing such as perfect security.


1
YankeeJim

When politicians and government officials say that terrorism is a threat to our system of government and values, they also mean that the threat may degrade our freedom in pursuit of protection.

1
stejeb

I seriously wonder why these young people, both here and in the States, get drawn into this radical position. Do they feel hard done by? Are they really of the opinion that these actions will change anything for anyone for the better?

I know there are issues about racism, anti muslim attitudes and ignorance about their culture and customs, but they are still a damn sight better off where they are than back where their parents came from....why do they think their parents moved?


1
Babel-Fish

Possibly adventure plays a part?

0
YankeeJim

That would be your case as you travel from place to place. Stay out of Greece for awhile.

3
Rhonda J Mangus

"The conditions of war and terrorism necessitate higher states of scrutiny, don’t you think?"

Let me share that the conditions of war and terrorism exist in the minds of those who created it and believe it.

No, not when it infringes on my rights or the rights of the people. And this is exactly what is happening!

It's beyond ridiculous.



1
YankeeJim

I always respect your views and values Rhonda, now let's consider them.

1. In my view, I think that Americans should take responsibility for their contribution to conditions that create war and terrorism that begin with over consumption of the world's scarce resources. While we do this through global commerce, we have historically used military might to exact what we want at the expense of local populations. We are often aligned with governments and leaders that are contrary to our values, and the contradiction is patently obvious to everyone, therefore irreconcilable.

2. I don't think that you will have to worry one bit in Ticonderoga New York unless there is a jihad festering down the street at the local mosque. Yes indeed, the laws have changed affording more power to the government to inspect and control the traveling public for the sake of safety for which the need is obvious with the collapse of the World Trade Towers and such.

Babelfish suggested that the FBI and CIA were probably tracking the Northern VA student travelers and may have tipped off the Pakistan government as to there whereabouts. That is plausible and desirable since they were meeting with a known terrorist and had supporting evidence of their intentions to participate in activities counter to American interests.

2
Rhonda J Mangus

Thank you, YankeeJim! And I respect your views and values as well. I just don't necessarily agree with them:)!


1
YankeeJim

I always respect your views and values Rhonda, now let's consider them.

1. In my view, I think that Americans should take responsibility for their contribution to conditions that create war and terrorism that begin with over consumption of the world's scarce resources. While we do this through global commerce, we have historically used military might to exact what we want at the expense of local populations. We are often aligned with governments and leaders that are contrary to our values, and the contradiction is patently obvious to everyone, therefore irreconcilable.

2. I don't think that you will have to worry one bit in Ticonderoga New York unless there is a jihad festering down the street at the local mosque. Yes indeed, the laws have changed affording more power to the government to inspect and control the traveling public for the sake of safety for which the need is obvious with the collapse of the World Trade Towers and such.

Babelfish suggested that the FBI and CIA were probably tracking the Northern VA student travelers and may have tipped off the Pakistan government as to their whereabouts. That is plausible and desirable since they were meeting with a known terrorist and had supporting evidence of their intentions to participate in activities counter to American interests.

1
Rhonda J Mangus

And BTW, you didn't answer my question:)!



2
Rory Cripps

CAIR? That's a case of the fox watching the hen house . . . .

2
Rhonda J Mangus

Roy, "The jihadists are really dangerous. Not fit for the modern world."

Does that apply to US Fundamentalism? 



1
a211423

If the U.S. wants to learn from its mistakes, then this is one that bears consideration in terms of retaining prisonors, their treatment and methods of retention.

The prison in Iraq served as  a training ground for younger Muslim men.  If they were not experienced in explosives or jihadists activities when they were detained, they were by the time they were released.  This trend is not different than American prisons where young convicts learn from older convicts refined methods in continuing lawless activities when they are released, hence the high percentages in recidivism.  

Extremists held in a US-run detention centre in Iraq were allowed to teach fellow detainees how to use explosives and become suicide bombers, a former inmate has told Al Jazeera.

Iraq detention center became school for Al Qaeda.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/12/2009121274712823455.html

 

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First Flagged at 6:38 AM, Dec 12, 2009 by Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke
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