U.S. Rifle Scopes In Iraq And Afghanistan Feature Bible Verse

by nanute | January 18, 2010 at 01:23 pm
1255 views | 52 Recommendations | 38 comments

Photos

Scopes

Scopes

see larger image

uploaded by nanute

As ABC first reported, a U.S. supplier of rifle scopes for the Army and Marine Corps has for several years now been inscribing citations to biblical verses from the New Testament on the scopes themselves, a practice the military denies any knowledge of, but which was apparently known within gun enthusiast circles.

--David Kurtz

ABC News is reporting that Trijicon a  Michigan based company has a multi-year 600 million dollar contract to provide the Marines and US Army with up to 80,000 scopes.

While it is not clear how many have been produced, images of the scopes in question can be seen   here Any of our gun enthusiasts in the NP community heard about this before?

Advertisement
recommend Sign In or Join to post comments
2
Hugh Askew

Hmmm.

Has this materially helped, or hindered, the scope's function?

Is it visible? ( i couldn't find it in the linked picture)

Is it bigger than a bread box?

Does it smell like a duck?


Okay - update, i did find it  -it is very, very small.  Looked like unto a serial number.

What an earthshaking tragedy!  I am benumbed.



4
stejeb

I just get the same picture as above off that link nanute.

I really hope they aren't using something like that, it would make US troops to appear to be on the same sort of footing as the extremists they often have to face.


2
Rory Cripps

lol! You sure threw out the bait on this one!

American troops should be able to have any inscription they want on their weapons as long as it doesn't interfere with accuracy and is of a tasteful manner. Inscriptions such as "Warrior For Jesus" or "Shoot a Commie for Mommie" are perfectly acceptable in my opinion.

I mean after all . . . the purpose of the weapon is to kill people.You can't get any less PC than that! If we're going to worry about the separation of church and state on the battle field, then we might as well retire all the military chaplains and rabbis.


2
Sputnic

So what about Muslim US soldiers Rory ?

0
nanute

Bait? I was "chumming." This incident has the potential to resurrect the "Scopes Trial." What, no video on this one?

0
Rory Cripps

Purple Haze all through my brain . . .lately things don't seem the same! MINCHIA! We need a clearer scope all around . . . .

1
nanute

I was thinking more along the lines of "Sympathy for The Devil."

2
Rory Cripps

What about them? I didn't mean to leave anyone out. I'd love to hear a Muslim inscription . . . .

4
stejeb

How about one that reads

"Do you really need to kill that person in your sights?"

2
Hugh Askew

I agree, Rory.  I'm certain they would do the verse in arabic if there were requests!

1
Rory Cripps

Something like " _____ a Jew for you" . . . . .

1
Karl Gotthardt - albertacowpoke

May the force be with you.

7
luke l

Okay guys you missed the point of why this is a big deal.  This isn't about personal inscriptions or choices of putting what you what on the scope, or how it might hinder the soldiers shooting. It is about the US tax payer paying Trijicon with a 600 million dollar contract.  For Trijicon to inscribe scopes with bible verses that are meant to go on the battlefield  for the Marines and US Army is despicable.  The US Government should be very concerned with this, not only for the concerns of  our professional soldier's religious affiliation to this, but the citizens of the US. There is the obvious fact that this US based company is fueling an ideology that only helps strengthen the belief of al qaeda and the fundamentalists idea that the US and its citizens are truly fighting  a War a Holy War with the Muslim world.  I hope the US government takes a look at removing all of these scopes and canceling the contract with Trijicon.  Regardless of Economic times and what Senators from Michigan have to say about it, this undermines our argument and our effort in Iraqi and Afghanistan and strengthens al qaeda's recruitment strategy.  If this is all being denied by the US military then they know now.  The issue has been raised, you can't deny it is a problem the time has passed.  Act now, do not coward.

2
Hugh Askew

That is hilarious!

Al Qaeda needs some fuel? Ha!

What was their excuse when they killed thousands in NYC on 9/11?

So, we file the inscriptions off so Osama doesn't get mad at us? What a stinking joke.

1
Danielle Ratcliff

Go Crusaders!

3
Karen Hatter

Well, Nanute, one things for sure, the rifle scopes would have been a perfect complement to Donald Rumsfeld's coversheets on the daily briefings that were delivered to President Bush, which also contained Bible verses.

4
Uwe Paschen

Nice link Karen. All this does raise one question though, did any one read the American constitution?

State and Religion have to be separate and the military is part of the State, not the Church.


4
Karen Hatter

Thanks, Uwe.

Yes, that is what's troubling about both instances.

The general belief that there's nothing wrong with injecting a Crusade like mentality into all of this, which bares a direct correlation to the behavior of those labeled Jihadists or Islamic extremists, seems lost on many supporting these actions.

 

1
Hugh Askew

Sorry, Paschen.

I have read the Constitution. It says no such thing. Not even close.

You may be referring to the 1st Amendment - part of the Bill of Rights.  It, however, still does not say what you say it does, sorry.


2
Uwe Paschen

Well H.A. then please do re-read the Constitution of the Unite States of America.

Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine thatgovernment and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other. The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise.

Reflecting a concept often credited in its original form to the English political philosopher John Locke, the phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to the letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state. The phrase was quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept.

The concept has since been adopted in a number of countries, to varying degrees depending on the applicable legal structures and prevalent views toward the proper role of religion in society. A similar principle of laïcité has been applied in France and Turkey, while some socially secularized countries such as Norway have maintained constitutional recognition of an official state religion. The concept parallels various other international social and political ideas, including secularism,disestablishmentreligious liberty, and religious pluralism

Further, In 1797, the United States Senate ratified a treaty with Tripoli that stated in Article 11:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; ..."

Supporters of the separation of church and state believe this article confirms that the government of the United States was specifically intended to be religiously neutral. Drafted by George Washington's administration with Thomas Jefferson's help, they claim it becomes, with the Constitution, "the supreme Law of the Land" -- as Article VI-2. of the US Constitutionsays it must.

Use of the phrase

The phrase "separation of church and state" is derived from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to a group identifying themselves as the Danbury Baptists. In that letter, referencing the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, Jefferson writes:

"

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.

"
 

 

0
Hugh Askew

Okay, Paschen, you said read the Constitution.

I have.

I still don't see what you are opining about.  Where EXACTLY is it in the Constitution???

Jefferson opined about the question between two competing churches. Not sure what that has to do with a private company putting their beliefs on display.  Then you have to ask, why, if it was Jefferson's intent - at the the time the Bill of Rights was enacted - to bar all religious activity within and without the government, why wasn't it written that way? Perhaps because it would NOT have been accepted?

Seems to be all right if the government buys into the religion the Prophet Al Gore leads. Why is that acceptable, and Christian religions aren't?

1
Rory Cripps

But . . . but! What about the Declaration of Independence . . .I though that was what we were talking about!

0
Hugh Askew

Okay, okay, yes it was, but those of us with AHDD can't seem to even Hey, let's go ride our bikes!

3
nanute

Agreed, Karen. And yet, there are those that insist this behavior, on our part, is justified by the actions of the extremists on the other side. The logic escapes me.

3
Karen Hatter

Nanute, I've been undecided for quite some time whether logic is even being applied, with logic being supplanted with unbridled emotional bravado.

3
nanute

You are probably right, Karen. I made up a simple math equation a long time ago that would seem to be apt under current conditions: emotion / (over), intellect=disaster.

0
Rory Cripps

Hey nanute: shoot a commie for mommie! lol! Did you like that one? Why do you get so emotional over this religious stuff anyway? MINCHIA and a double JEEZ! There's no separation of church and state mentioned anywhere in the Declaration of Independence . . .in fact the Declaration is filled with religious implications . . . ask Ben Franklin!

As far as the outrageous military contracts go, I'm in 100 percent agreement.

0
Rory Cripps

nanute: How the hell can you make up a math equation? You attended the very same NYC public schools as I and I only made it up to the third grade! JEEZ! Sister Salonga must have beat it into your head before you transferred . . . .

0
Hugh Askew

So it has come to where someone discretely displaying their faith gets labeled as "extremist"?

It takes a lot of arrogance to presume that the opinions and standards of the day will be in place tomorrow. If by chance you find yourself in a time or place where your standards no longer hold sway, best hope that others are more generous.


0
nanute

So it has come to where someone discretely displaying their faith gets labeled as "extremist"? I'm sorry HA. I re-read all the comments, and any reference to extremists were clearly concerning the extremists on the other side. Maybe, I missed something?

What is NowPublic?

NowPublic lets people work together to cover news events around the world.

Find out more

Crowd Power

Hugh Askew
First Flagged at 1:45 PM, Jan 18, 2010 by Hugh Askew
These members have powered this story:

Most Recommended Stories in World

Recommendations (52)

Most recently recommended by:
 

closeSign in to NowPublic

is reporting from