UPDATE 2: Nobel winners call for sacking of creationist education supporter from Royal Society

by Paul Conneally | September 12, 2008 at 11:04 am
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UPDATE: Church Leaders promote teaching of Evolution

UPDATE: Church Leaders promote teaching of Evolution

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Nobel prizewinners for science are now demanding the sacking of the Royal Society's director of education after his call to teach creationism alongside evolution in science lessons.

Two Nobel prize winners - Sir Harry Kroto and Sir Richard Roberts - have demanded that the Royal Society sack its education director, Professor Michael Reiss. The call, backed by other senior Royal Society fellows, follows Reiss's controversial claim last week that creationism be taught in schools' science classes.

Reiss, an ordained Church of England minister, has since alleged he was misquoted. Nevertheless, several Royal Society fellows say his religious views make him an inappropriate choice for the post.

'I warned the president of the Royal Society that his [Reiss] was a dangerous appointment a year ago. I did not realise just how dangerous it would turn out to be,' said Kroto, a Royal Society fellow, and winner of the 1996 Nobel Prize for Chemistry.

UPDATE 1: Church Leaders promote teaching of Evolution

Here's a twist on the original story where a leading scientist was reported as wanting creationism taught - now we have the Church of England promoting the teaching of Evolution. Anglican leaders are even launching a website to promote Darwinism and counter what they call the "noisy" advocates of literal interpretations of the Bible such as including Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin.

The Church of England expressed deep concerns last night about the spread of creationist views as it prepared to unveil a website promoting the evolutionary views of Charles Darwin.

Anglican leaders fear that “noisy” advocates of a literal interpretation of the Bible - especially in the United States, where even the Republican vice-presidential candidate, Sarah Palin, is a vocal supporter - are infecting the perception of Christianity worldwide.

The Church will launch the website on Monday, a few weeks after the 150th anniversary of Darwin's first public proposal of natural selection and amid growing controversy over the teaching of creationism in schools.

The Rev Professor Michael Reiss, a biologist and director of education at the Royal Society, provoked a furore this week when he called for creationism to be treated in science lessons as a legitimate “world-view”.


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Original story: Leading scientist urges teaching of creationism in schools

In Britain the teaching of creationism in science lessons has no place as part of the national curriculum in state schools. The Government states that it should never be taught as a scientific theory but here we get one of the most famous science bodies, the Royal Society, appearing to to suggest that it should be taught in science classes. It is not beyond chance that a trial might have to take place if some schools decide to follow the Royal Society Director of Education's suggestion.

The famous Scopes 'monkey trial' of 1925 is brought to mind.

The discussion of creationism is not banned in UK schools only the teaching of it as a scientific theory.

This story comes out in the same week that Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin tells America that she feels that evolution and creationism should be taught equally as theories and in the week that scientists at Cern tried to recreate the big bang.

Creationism should be taught in science classes as a legitimate point of view, according to the Royal Society, putting the august science body on a collision course with the Government.

The Rev Michael Reiss, a biologist and its director of education, said it was self-defeating to dismiss as wrong or misguided the 10 per cent of pupils who believed in the literal account of God creating the Universe and all living things as related in the Bible or Koran. It would be better, he said, to treat creationism as a world view.

His comments put him at odds with fellow scientists as well as the Government. Former Fellows of the Royal Society include Charles Darwin, who first proposed the theory of evolution.

Many children who go to school believing in creationism come from Muslim or fundamental Christian families, he said. “Just because something lacks scientific support doesn't seem to me a sufficient reason to omit it from a science lesson.”

His rationale is that creationism should be included in science classes to reduce confusion among school children from orthodox families who have been brought up to reject the principles of evolution.


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0
Terri Potratz

I don't disagree with creationism being part of the classroom discussion, but it should not be taught as scientific fact.  Children should hear all sides of an issue like this, and be taught to think objectively about it.

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Jordan Yerman

I don't understand how teaching religion as science would "reduce confusion".  If schools want to teach creationism, there are better curricula in which to fit that topic than science.

Rhonda J Mangus
Rhonda J Mangus
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 12:54 on September 12th, 2008

LotusFlower, I like this story. It's good stuff.

Amy Judd
Amy Judd
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 12:58 on September 12th, 2008

LotusFlower, I like this story. It's good stuff.

I think children should be taught everything so that they can have an idea of what they want to believe and then can make up their own minds.

dunkelberg
dunkelberg
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 13:07 on September 12th, 2008

Whose creationism?  A quick Google gave more than one million hits for "creation story".  This one page has twenty.  The closest creationist dogma gets to science is anthropology.

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dunkelberg

“Just because something lacks scientific support doesn't seem to me a sufficient reason to omit it from a science lesson.”

This from the land of Newton . . . sigh.

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Paul Conneally

thanks for the good stuff flag dunkelberg - you are right - so many creation stories - good stories too a lot of them - and all different!

what i'm not understanding at the moment is how the 'opinion' note has appeared on my story - the story itself isn't opinion its a straight reporting - taking no sides - of the statement put out by the Royal Society Director of Education and the debate its promoting - the news is that the statement has been made and causing debate - how does that opinion flag get there without me knowing or someone talking to me about it? any ideas?

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dunkelberg

No idea how it got there, but it doesn't seem to belong.

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Fairbanks

>how the 'opinion' note has appeared on my story.

Don't know, but the story is straight reporting.  Maybe it is the political side of the debate, which is all opinion even if not the reporter's.. 

Emilio Lizardo
Emilio Lizardo
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 14:00 on September 12th, 2008

Darwin's Evolutionism reminds me a lot of modern particle physics, (1) looks great on paper, but just doesn't seem to describe reality very well, and (2) all modern scholars are required by acedemic law to base their work on the gospel of that truth ... to commit heresy means acedemic excommunication and professional suicide ...

Very similar to the Case of Galileo differing from the gospel of Aristotle ... or the Cold Fusion guys, Pons and Flieschman ...

Anyway, there's a lot more to this whole genetics picture than meets the eye and my main question is - why don't they even want to discuss the possibility of Creationism ?

Might bring up some very awkward side-issues, eh ?

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Terri Potratz

Let me clarify that I don't believe in creationism at all, or that it should be "taught" per se - what I do believe in is being open and honest about the political and cultural landscape and teaching children at an early age how to process this information. 

Creationism is a hot topic right now, so to exclude it from the classroom entirely does a disservice to the kids.  They should be able to make sense of these conflicting points of view with the help of an educator through an open dialogue.  Otherwise, you're leaving it up to the parents/whoever to influence the opinion and beliefs of that child without question, and that's extremely problematic.


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Emilio Lizardo

Well, Terri, I know how unpopular Creationist views can be, but it doesn't make any difference to me if a person believes it or not ...

My point here is - why are they not even open to discussing it ?

I mean any thoughtful person who looks at the evidence, from the fossil record which exists in our oceans' sea-beds, all the way up to the venerable Platypus and similar evolutionary anachronisms would have to admit that maybe Darwin, much like Niels Bohr and his atom, didn't get it quite right ...

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ScienceDave

Royal Society Press Release:

The Royal Society is opposed to creationism being taught as science.  Some media reports have misrepresented the views of Professor Michael Reiss, Director of Education at the Society expressed in a speech yesterday.


Professor Reiss has issued the following clarification. "Some of my comments about the teaching of creationism have been misinterpreted as suggesting that creationism should be taught in science classes. Creationism has no scientific basis. However, when young people ask questions about creationism in science classes, teachers need to be able to explain to them why evolution and the Big Bang are scientific theories but they should also take the time to explain how science works and why creationism has no scientific basis.  I have referred to science teachers discussing creationism as a worldview'; this is not the same as lending it any scientific credibility."

The society remains committed to the teaching of evolution as the best explanation for the history of life on earth.  This position was highlighted in the Interacademy Panel statement on the teaching of evolution issued in June 2006.

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Terri Potratz

Thanks Science Dave!  I'm glad this has been somewhat clarified by the Royal Society.

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greenleaf

I believe that it would help many children more if the schools would be a little more even-handed in the issue. instead of creationism it could be also refered to as "intelligent design" for which there is extensive evidence in the living world. even scientists admit it is highly improbable for the complexity that exists in the universe, better yet the planet earth to have come from obscure random forces. we could all learn from the writting of the father of evolution(Charles Darwin), whose work was quite even-handed.

Pat Garcia
Pat Garcia
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 16:48 on September 12th, 2008

LotusFlower, I like this story. It's good stuff.

lgal3824
lgal3824
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 17:58 on September 12th, 2008

LotusFlower, I like this story. It's good stuff.

0
Monte

LotusFlower, a very good and hotly debated subject. And that is the point as dunkelberg so brought up, is that there are thousands if not millions of creation beliefs. Which one is correct, your guess is as good as anyone's. Myself I'll stick with Darwin and his thoughts on the subject. But it is a viable working theory, creationism, intelligent design or what ever that vein of thought is not a viable let alone working theory. If want it taught in schools then do so as philosophy, but be prepared to teach them all even if you don't agree with them. Teaching creationism as any thing more than that, IMO, seriously handicaps those children when they start going out into the real world to start their lives. As for my thoughts on religion, any time you pull religion into anything you just make that situation exponentially more difficult. Look at the world today, need I say more.
This is a subject that one can write reams of pages about, but in the end it does not matter what people say as it is up to the individual and what they choose to believe that matters.

Heritage
Heritage
flagged this story as Good Stuff

at 19:38 on September 12th, 2008

LotusFlower, I like this story. It's good stuff.

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A. Page

The only reason the C of E wants to promote evolution is not to determin its past but its proposed future. The gay vicars hope to evolve the art of making bottom babies and clinch huge Labour funding, however, after much deliberation they seem stuck between a big bang and yet more monkey business.

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Emilio Lizardo

One of the implications of Darwin's theory is that nature somehow produced, at random, the human genome. The human genome might be considered comparable in complexity to the Collected Works of William Shakespeare.

Here is an example of how unlikely it is that only a single Shakespeare play, Hamlet, could be produced at random.

Infinite monkey theorem

The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare.

Even if the observable universe were filled with monkeys typing for all time, their total probability to produce a single instance of Hamlet would still be less than one in 10 [followed by 183,800 zeros]. As Kittel and Kroemer put it, "The probability of Hamlet is therefore zero in any operational sense of an event…", and the statement that the monkeys must eventually succeed "gives a misleading conclusion about very, very large numbers." This is from their textbook on thermodynamics, the field whose statistical foundations motivated the first known expositions of typing monkeys.

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