USA - How Can Anyone be Against Universal Health Care?

In Alberta, 40% of our total budget is devoted to health care.  While the system is not perfect, it does provide care for all.  Despite what some on the far right in the US would want Americans to believe, the system works well for us. 

Having said that, I can see the reluctance in having Health Care run by the Federal Government.  Even without a universal health plan the US spends more per capita on health care than any other industrialized nation.

Correct me if I.m wrong, but what a lot of people outside of the US don.t understand is that States cover the uninsured already in County hospitals.  At least in Texas that is how it works.

I think the Obama needs to take time to study universal health care around the world and not try to jam it through Congress.

There is much to be learned from how universal health care is run in Canada and the UK.  I think for one, it should be decentralized and left to the States to administrate.  Basic Health Care can be mandated through a federal law and then get the feds out of the way and let the States run it.

My rambling thoughts:)

I would not be so paranoid about Social Health care or Social Democratic Ideas.

They work well in many Countries and quiet frankly the US should be ashamed being a World power and having people starve, in Bad health and dying because they can not afford it. Or having badly educated people and others that can not get an education for lack of money is a monstrosity for a country like the US.

Sweden, Germany, Japan, France and many other have taken Social responsibilities since we are all in pond in the end. Social justice is important.

I am every now and then in the States and every time I am shocked at the amount of poverty and bad health or malnutrition. The Look to an outsider more like a third World Country then a first World Country.

Granted you have pockets of extreme wealth and know how, however so does every Third World country as well only on a much smaller scale.

Since most American are so big on the Bible, or at least so they say, maybe they should read it as well, and they will notice that the greatest Socialist of all was Christ him self.

So if you are Christian then you are also a Socialist. :)

One of the largest segments of "uninsured" is the working poor or lower-middle class, my partner falls into this area, he works in food service, with insureance not even an option from his employer (typical).  For him, a private plan is not an option & would be too expensive if a company would issue a policy.  Another example are some of my coworkers with families, that have our work insurance, that covers their families (about $160 every 2 weeks).  After taxes & the insurance they might bring home $300-350 every OTHER week.. Thats not alot of money for a family to live on, so both parents usually work, one job covers the insurance, one covers everything else.

The current idea of a "public insurance" option could help may of the people in the lower income brackets, BUT if this insuance undercuts & starts to replace alot of the "empoyer insurance" policies (i.e. companies drop their traditional coverage for this public insuance) it will become a dafacto "Universal health plan". Except for the rich who will still be able to get what they want (I'm sure).

$&%*(, I gota run, I'll be back.

You will soon be crippled by universal health insurance. In the UK, everyone who works pays not only health insurance every month (it is called National Insurance and it is a lot) but also through general taxes as well and through sales tax (15%). The British health service offers  very poor family medicine and doesn't give you a regular, thorough health check. You only ever get a few minutes with a doctor who looks you up and down, takes your blood pressure and says goodbye. The health services itself is clogged up with obese people, drunk people and very old people. Trying to get any service competing with these people is next to impossible because they are seen as the first priority. I can assure you, with all the fat and broken down people you have in the US, the system will soon choke on these people.

One reason I left the USA and moved to Europe is that I can have quality affordable health care there. Full coverage, no deductable medical and dental costs me about 1200 euro per year (about 1600$). If I wanted to really cut costs I could have it for less than that.

When I was visiting berlin once several years ago, I crashed my bike and had to go to the emergency room. Seven stitches in my elbow, x-rays, painkillers (to go!) and etc. cost me 45 Euro!! I was never so thankful to a doctor as that moment.

I suggest watching michael moore's Sicko for more stories like my own and a good comparison of the US health care system with that of other countries...

The #1 reason my medical-profession friends resist working in the US is that they don't want to practice medicine off of an HMO menu, so I am not convinced about "lack of creativity". The money is certainly better in the US (by a huge margin), but the liabilities and restrictions are larger as well.

There's another economic reality missing here: healthcare costs as a cause of American bankruptcy. At the end of the day, American healthcare is in the hands of investment bankers and bureaucrats: in my opinion, these people have no business (and clearly no experience) in administering the nation's healthcare.

American tax money gets thrown at the problem anyway, so we may as well be in the driver's seat on this. Do I have to wait in long queues here in the land of generic drugs and maple syrup? Sometimes. Sure beats wrapping duct tape around my scalp when I sustain an injury whilst not being able to afford insurance (true story).

The main problem with US healthcare is perception: if you can afford it, then the system works... however, if you can't, then you see it for what it really is: large administration companies who have successfully monetized our well-being, and lobbied our government to convince us that this is normal. It's totally legal, but that doesn't make it realistically scalable for a healthy society, as current events bear out.

And if you get hurt really, really badly? Or get really sick? What happens when your HMO says no? Because they do say no, if they think you'll be too expensive.

We're a all a lot closer than we think to losing our savings under the curent system. While I appreciate this opinion piece, someone who has had to fix injuries with materials from a hardware store will never be convinced that managed care is the way forward.

I've lived extensively under both conditions, and I'm here to tell you that I prefer my tax money going to stuff like healthcare (i.e. back to Americans).

the biggest evil in American health care, it's simple "HMO's" just asking my aging parents who can hardly afford health care anymore after losing over 50% of their pension trust funds!

Hello

So many different reasons for being for health care.  I had a long response with sources but the system would not take it.

For now, Please address this...

The current health care system exists because the legislature allows it.  By most of your observations and opinions, the system that the Government have managed and legislated, is a failure. Your Government managed and allowed this failure with its rules and regulations. Granted, we have Government by the highest bidder instead of Constitutional Republic, but those same forces will continue under Universal Health Care. The same Government that mismanaged the current system, will mismanage any new system.  Please investigate issues with the VA Hospitals.  What better vision of what Universal Health Care would be than that current Government Health Care Program?

Now if you are not buying that reasoning, How about this?  The Government has screwed up Social Security (spent the money instead of saving it as promised), the economy and the VA Hospital System.?

With all of these failures, Why do you think they will manage National Health Care any better?

And finally, do you really want to give your government to judge your life and retaliate against your dissent by withholding or providing health care on subjective rationing basis?

You are talking about trading Liberty for security?

In the USA, we have a saying we address to children when they don't like the parents rules.

My Roof, My Rules.... You want your own rules, get your own house.

What you are proposing is the equivalent of moving back in with your parents ?

There will be a loss of liberty and freedom.

Instead of the decision being finances or finding charitable association, the entire relationship between Citizen and Government will become:

My house, My Rules

My Medical Care, My Government Rules...

Suddenly the ruthlessness that the political parties have largely directed to their political party opponents to gain and maintain power, can be channeled to individual citizens. (Smeargate GB, Political Dissenters labeled insane in FSSU) Suddenly now the Political Party in Power will be in the position to delay or deny medical treatment to those that dissent.

Do you want to force people to join a particular party to get health care?

Many Germans joined the Nazi Party in the 1930 & 40's not because they agreed with the politics, but because lack of membership made it difficult to get needed goods like bread and fuel.  And we all no the result of that exercise in government?

Is that the the slipper slope that you want us to be on?

They who would trade liberty for security, soon have none and deserve neither? Thomas Jefferson.

Please let us call upon the private sector, the medical industry and charity to provide a safety net for the shortcomings of the current system, rather throw it all on the scrap heap and let the incompetent politicians construct a replacement - inevitably another bloated, wasteful, corrupt government bureaucracy that we will come to be a regular source of complaint.

Again, Read about the failings of the VA Hospital.  That is American Government Managed Health Care.  They screwed it up on a small scale for that group of persons who answered the call to duty and should receive the best care.

Imagine what standard of care a much larger bureaucracy would provide us average Serfs, oafs and Jesters.

All of your fanciful imaginings of free and wonderful Universal Health Care will not make it so. The VA Hospital system is the reality.

Wishing that this group of legislators that have screwed up Social Security, the economy, and the VA Hospital System, will somehow not screw up a Universal Health Care System is delusional and irrational.

I can not even begin to imagine the thought process you engage in to not incorporate the proven reality of repeated failures of our elected officials in these other major programs as a major obstacle in realizing your vision of free and wonderful health care for all.

Those were my thoughts.

Respectfully,

Don Mashak

The Cynical Patriot

The U.S. is one of the only countries in the world that does not have a national health care system. As it stands, the health care system in the states is run FOR PROFIT. How can a non-profit system cost more?

People's lives are being ruined because of money owed to health care professionals. I personally know quite a few people who are close to bankruptcy because of the enormous burden medical bills have put on their families. Even with health insurance, the medical bills can be enormous, unless you have excellent health insurance (ie expensive) - and few people do. And insurance rates are known to skyrocket for people who contract cancer.

There are people in the states paying thousands of dollars per month for prescriptions alone!

Many of us go without proper treatment for many of our ills, and desperately hope that our health holds out.  We hope that we don't have a sudden medical crisis that could absolutely ruin us financially.

This is the reality of our U.S. health care system.

People should not have to worry about their lives being ruined by medical bills because of an unforeseen medical crisis. This is totally unacceptable in a so-called "civilized" country. The current medical system in the U.S. is barbaric! My vote is for the peace of mind that a national health care system like the one in Canada gives.

I agree with the poster above who suggested all to see Michael Moore's Sicko for a good expose of the American and national health care systems of the world.

It's true the govn't is usually less efficient than private enterprise relative to the administration of almost any endeavor or enterprise, which is not desirable except where ridiculous overkill may be a reasonable priority (e.g. space shuttles).

Unfortunately, with healthcare we are not really comparing govn't with private enterprise.  The manner in which the health care system is run in this country does not bear a strong resemblance to private enterprise.  It's gatekeepers keep the  prices propped up via artificial scarcity, while it's regulatory environment runs on what is very nearly a communistic type of operations protocol, as (internally) everything is controlled to the point that there is practically no competition. 

Hence, a 5% annual inflation rate when the rest of the country is in deflation!

i may not be typical, but, NO!!!!

I don't want health insurance.  I don't have it; don't want it, all because i don't believe in the medical system.  The only way I'd EVER go to a hospital is unconscious.

And I don't want MY tax-money to pay for:  some fat man's colon cancer treatment because HE ate too much junk food, or a teenage girl's abortion because SHE didn't think she'd get pregnant, etc etc etc......  they should make medical treatment MORE expensive so people take care of their own bodies instead of relying on a flawed medical system.

Most of the people here don't realize that America is one of the unhealthiest places in the world.  Even in third-world countries, as long as people aren't starving & malnourished, and have clean water to drink, they never need all the medical care that FAT American slobs need on a daily basis.

Very good points Bettermakings. People are making a big mistake here by fixating on the system as the source of the health, rather than healthy lifestyles being the source of health. A system approach, will never work. And making it even more free or tax payer funded, will only bankrupt the government.

I noticed the critics of my statement offer various provisos for the failings of the British National Health Service: they admit that service is bad in cities, they admit, if you want good service, then you need to go private with the insurer BUPA, and they admit that your guarantee of good health care is a piece of legal legislation, not a reality of the system. In Soviet Russia, the constitution was a beautiful thing, nice words. But reality was something else.

The most successful systems are insurance-based like in continental Europe, not the Stalinistic British health system.

I'm for universal healthcare regardless of what the people on the right would say. I grew up in Singapore where universal healthcare works marvellously.  According to Wikipedia, "Universal health care is implemented in all but one of the wealthy, industrialized countries, with the one exception being the United States.[1] It is also provided in many developing countries and is the trend worldwide."

I don't remember growing up having to worry whether I could see a doctor or not. Not my grandparents, not my parents, not me. The government understood it as a basic need that has to be met and therefore; it is accessible to all. Those that are against universal healthcare should start talking to those that have experienced the system. It is not perfect but definitely better that what we have right now.

Don - If we adopt Universal Health Care in the USA - will I still be able to keep for instance my Blue Cross-Blue Shield insurance if I choose and want to pay for it?  Or will it be mandatory that I accept and pay for Universal Health Care?

And with Universal Health Care will I be able to choose my own doctor?  Or will I be assigned one.

Those are just surface concerns that I have -- I am trying to learn more about this before I make a judgement.

Hello my rational and reasoned friend and fellow citizen Jwoap:

I will begin by warning you of slippery slopes and lying politicians.

I don't know about you, but in my state no one wanted the seat belt law but the insurance companies. To appease us, they said it would just be a no cost ticket, with no effect on insurance rates, and that we could not be pulled over for that as the sole offense.

Little my little, their true intent became reality and now it is a big fine, increases insurance rates, counts towards your driving points for revocation and you can be pulled over as a first offense.

So no matter how wonderful they tell you it will be, and whatever promises they make, once we give it to them we will be on the slippery slope toward long lines, rationed care and death counseling.

In its various iterations some call for you to be able to keep your own insurance and some dont...This is a concession, so my warning is that once you are on the slippery slope, eventually they will revoke private health insurance.

At the beginning of the slippery slope, it appears that they will allow you to choose your own health provider to make it more palatable to those of us that have already known that freedom.  but in a few generations, with a need to cut costs, and fewer of us freedom of choice freaks around, they most likely will take choice of doctors away.

And finally, just to make it clear to you that Universal Health Care won't work.  Investigate how well the Government has managed the Veterans Administration Hospitals.  Now if they can't manage health care on that small scale, how can they do it on a nationwide scale.  Go ask some veterans about the outrageous health care scandals at the VA.

We need to fix the problems with our current free market health care system.  We need to provide a safety net for those that cannot find proper care in the free market system.  We don't have to dump everything.

Now is the time for the politicians, Republican and Democrat, to be going to the healthcare industry and saying, If you don't want us to implement universal health care, what concessions are you willing to make to provide a safety net for the more economically challenged citizens of our society.

To be Direct, Obamacare is not about healthcare, it is about power and getting kickbacks for politicians. 

I beseech you to call your elected officials and ask them why they are not seeking to create a safety net for the current free market system, instead of throwing it all out for the known failures of universal health care.

Those were my thoughts.  i hope that aids in your decision.

Respectfully

Don Mashak

The Cynical Patriot